xdamxincx

iTrader: (1)

what does duration of a cam have to do with the cheapness here ..u think thats the only cam there is that can make power ? i stated my opinion of what would be cheaper.. y dont u argue that . not a cam profile.

xdamxincx

iTrader: (1)

pay attn to what he is asking here ..
ls1 build and tuning software.. all that will be more than a sbc w/carb build.
if you are starting from scratch.

KHShapiro

iTrader: (10)

I think it is gonna happen sooner than most people think it will, esp with the Warhawk block and heads due to the added head bolts so they can raise the compression with out lifting the heads.... i even consider that a genV....

off the subject a bit what was the lt5, it was an lt but it was a different block design. is that considered a gen2?

KHShapiro

iTrader: (10)

yes , i agree about the EFI parts when comparing it to a Carb set up...If you go EFI on a Gen1 it brings that price back up.
I also stand behind my statement that high end parts (hard parts i.e. rotating ,heads and valve train) cost ABOUT +/- the same regardless if its Gen 1,2,3,4

xdamxincx

iTrader: (1)

the sbc is considered gen I
lt motors are gen II
ls motors gen III
and sbc are already making over 1000 hp na
nascar motors are making close to that with 358 cubes and restrictor plates.. lol

xdamxincx

iTrader: (1)

i dont think bryant or bill mitchell is messing with ls stuff yet so you
may not even be able to get top end stuff for a ls motor.. callies is as top of the line as you can get whch is real comparable to top end ,,,and like you say it probably is all close in price.

KHShapiro

iTrader: (10)

ls2 & ls7 are considered genIV (4) for us slow people

KHShapiro

iTrader: (10)

$49,999.99, i have that in my sofa cushions
but look at the brightside of that price "INCLUDES FREE SHIPPING! ( Lower 48 States )"
by the end of 07 i believe we will see that with less compression even if its (slight)and EFI

In Feb i also think we will see 1k n/a LS series.

Comparing nascar isnt fair, they have weight and other restrictions, it would be a nice surpise if they switched to LS's and redesigned the cars for them
though.

xdamxincx

iTrader: (1)

well..im just talking hp comparisson.. with restrictor plates.. and 358 cubes..

Marc 85Z28

iTrader: (8)

What was I thinking? Arguing the merits of the SBC over the LS1 on an LS1 site? Even if I posted a magic link to a 9,000,000HP SBC for only $1500, that has logged over 3,000,000 miles in a daily driver that runs 3s in the quarter, and gets 50MPG while still being registered as an ULEV someone would want to continue to arguement that the LS1 is better with inferior examples and the hope of one day that it will live up to the arguement they are trying to make.

Go ahead and live in your sheltered little worlds surrounded by LS1 fanboy propaganda , and continue to refuse to believe the truth. Get to a track sometime and witness the real world, not internet hype.

Marc 85Z28 <--- Unsubscribing from this thread due to lack of intelligence in it. Jet engines

KHShapiro

iTrader: (10)

we are happy you came to your senses!!!
yes i edited the last sentence cause i thought it made it funny
did you forget to read Dragframe's Sig quote, here let me post it for you.
"No way dude...i saw an LS1 fight godzilla and the LS1 beat godzilla and it looked in the air and was like what do you think of that god? And god was like bring it bitch, so they fought and the LS1 beat god and now the LS1 is god because its the greatest thing ever"
enough said!!!

xdamxincx

iTrader: (1)

wow .. someone got butt hurt bad... and the funny part is.. i have hardly read any tech articles here on ls1tech .com (thus the low post count) all my knowledge is out at the track/street .

KHShapiro

iTrader: (10)

I dont know you and you dont know me, Marc 85Z28 you have refused to read and take in anything, face it the Gen1 isnt the end all of SBC's, maybe you need to just keep the lights off and never go outside to see what the real world is about. Since i am kinda the only one really posting daily here , there is no need to beat around the bush, i am the "fanboy" you refer to or at the very least one of them. i forgot to add, its not the merits of the SBC that have come into play , its the merits of the LS series that have been put into question when compaired to the all mighty Gen1 and the cost of a build. Face it parts in the high end are about the same, and yes you stated it, ls1 parts pricing is dropping and even now there are with in a 200-300 dollars apart foir the mid grade stuff , and lets not forget that that mid grade ls stuff is almost top lvl SBC stuff (not to be confused with SB2.2)
You are the one who refused to believe the truth, and i will put my money where my mouth is and say you dont have more track time than i. i gave you respect and so have others that have debated in this topic .no one questioned your merits, and just because some people dont agree with you they are not nut swingers............ but if thats what you like to do in your free time , more power to you

BLKWS.6

Is the LS1 not an SBC?

I would say go SBC, you can bore it out and race again next season...LS1...no.

topend

By that time SBC will be making 1300 hp NA without lifting the head, or breaking the block.

black84z28

people like marc make these forums suck...

anything poduction on a gen 1 is inferior to a ls1 period...the heads suck ***...the blocks are good and some of the rods are alright also..even the efi set ups are a ******* joke...yay for the double flush two toilet injection...

the best factory head i can think of off the top of my head available for the gen1 is a vortec...i am willing to bet and could be wrong stock it wont flow even close to the air a stock ls7 head or a l92 head will flow...plus you can pull the intake off of a gen3 without getting coolant all over the place...thats a plus

i wont even go on about alumnimun blocks...there was a few aluminum block cars produced in the gen1 cars but who has them?...gm and a museum....98-02 f cars have them stock...the closest thing to that is a bbc and that is still a 6k block to buy from gm if you can find one...





when you compare aftermarket to aftermarket of course things will make power...what about factory vs factory...the sbc with factory only parts sucks compared to ls1 factory parts


who gives a **** what an aftermarket build can produce...if we wanna talk about that then **** sbc and the ls1 because the hemi based 500 ci inch top fuel motor is the most powerful internal combustion ever produced on something with 4 wheels...


how about we talk street pump gas cars and see where this goes...because i have been going on about a build for my car before i ever got the idea of a gen3 build for my car and to make anything close to the same power it would not be as streetable as a gen3 build and have efi to boot

black84z28

6liter block...yes

The Big Show

iTrader: (2)

NIce rant...but look at the original topic of discussion. They were never talking about stock for stock....

As far as my take, someone has already stated it. The LSx based engine is nothing more than 50+ years of SBC aftermarket design/development wrapped up into a nice production package. It's not something the designers sat down with a blank sheet of paper and came up with so the circles that this debate is going in is really quite pointless.

KHShapiro

iTrader: (10)

yes i agree. But its still different hench the "LS" .outside of the rods (which isnt a good idea to use because they are not centered correctly for the ls, but some people have used them) there is nothing from a Gen1 that can be used.
With all of these great and wonderful items in the aftermarket for the Gen1 why didnt GM copy them,why would they not stick with the orginal design and just copy the aftermarket.. Because they couldn't, they needed something better to work with, they knew the short comming of the orginal within the ever changing world and its needs, they needed a more efficent design, which in turn creates more power and reliblity. Remember when EFI first came out and it was laught at? We could go into the differences in the blocks themselfs or the port spacing, or the head angle but i am assuming that we all pretty much know this.. or do we...
The fact of the matter is yes the ls will be slightly higher to build when using mid-grade item BUT those mid grade items outside of the crank are going to be better parts , Yes including aftermarket. They are both going to be about the same price to build when using upper tier parts.(Callies,AFR,ETP,Diamond,Hogan ect,ect,ect)
As a matter of fact i would even say Stock LS stuff is as good as mid grade Gen1 aftermarket stuff, so you can save money on a build right there by using the stock crank and 99+ rods with arp bolts.
Gen1 is like an aging fighter, yeah its had some wonderful battles,and we all want to route for it , but its getting old and although we would still like to see it continue on a win streak, its age is begining to show.. it has for a long time. There is a new up and commer,kickin *** and takin name, hungry to take the belt with a bag of new tricks we havent seen yet.
Thats my take on it.

KHShapiro

iTrader: (10)

Again i agree with you.
This wasnt suposta be about discrediting either or but it turned that way.
I did however think was was mainly about build costs.

So what would it take to build a 600 FWHP Gen1 and a 600FWHP Gen3
Yes there have been some posts with links but would anyone like to do the research and find parts deals and post parts pricing for each
Lets then compare compression ratio ,Cams and street manners.
We could even drop the power lvl down or up is someone has an idea.


1 Saying you already have core engines complete with stock rotating(already in need of a rebuild)
2 no core (no blocks)