Small Block & Big Block Chevy Specific Mouse & Rat Motor Discussion & Conversions

My Budget 350 (And I mean Budget!)

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Old 12-26-2007, 08:57 PM
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Default My Budget 350 (And I mean Budget!)

So, about a month ago I picked up an old Targetmaster 350 motor with somewhere between 10,000 and 100,000 miles on it for cheap. It had every accessory imaginable (No, no Weiand blower I'm afraid) and is bone stock.

I am currently building my first car (A 1973 240z) on a budget. Yesterday, I pulled everything off of the motor that I do not intend to use (freeing up some WHP no doubt!)

-The smog pump and smog equipment
-A/C Compressor
-Power Steering pump
-Stock cooling fan (going electric)

Note: I believe this is the same engine that was used for CHP's baseline 350 budget build here: http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/463...

Stock Dyno'd at 239 Horses if I remember correctly.

Stock config for the motor is as follows:

-Q-Jet 4 barrel carb
-GM dual plane intake manifold
-993 Casting Heads (Supposedly these flow like 883's but are a heavier casting?)
-Stock "RV" flat tappet cam
-Cast iron manifolds (Ugh)
-stock short block
- about 8-1 compression:

Current Build Plan -

-Leave the Q-Jet carb.

-Port and polish the heads and intake myself. (Never done this before, but hey, it's a learning experience!) using that SA kit. According to the CHP this is good for about 20 WHP, should be fun if nothing else!

-POSSIBLY do my own 3 angle valve job depending on the cost of the dies. From what I've found, they are about $250, but as always I NEVER have a problem buying tools. I'll spend 500 bucks on tools before I spend $100 on a performance part.

-Exhaust is going to consist of Summit Block Hugger headers here: http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autof...
Only 2.5 inch collectors but I am sure they are boatloads better than those stocker manifolds! Running 2.5 inch straight pipes for about 4 feet past that. No muffler, no cat.

-Edelbrock Performer Intake (I am considering getting a Victor Jr intake as I will be using it for another project down the road)

-Thin Felpro gasket to do SOMETHING about that horrid compression ratio!

-The cam is the only thing I am "unsure" about. I really don't like the idea of an RV cam in a 2500 pound car. What do you fellas recommend?

2500 pound car, muncie 4 speed, 3.3~ rear end
Looking for 300+ flywheel horsepower. I know going with the biggest cam possible usually isn't the best idea for street ability, but this is meant to be a FUN car, and am not concerned about loosing bottom end on a 2500 pound car.

With the stock cam, I am guessing somewhere around 290-300 flywheel. What do you guys think is attainable with a mild cam?

Total Cost: (Including possible tool expenditures)
300 to 700 depending on what I go with. (Getting the dies, a new cam, etc)

Criticism is VERY much welcomed!
Old 12-26-2007, 09:13 PM
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perhaps u should look into used vortec heads and single plane or dual plane
intake manifold with heads machined for conventional vsprings and seals
with summit cam kit,
Old 12-27-2007, 09:51 AM
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If it were me, I'd slap on a set of modified vortecs that'll handle ~.525" lift, a matching RPM air gap intake and a 22x duration cam. You'll get a nice bump in compression, still be able to run pump gas and will blow your 300hp goal out of the water while staying within your budget.
Old 12-27-2007, 10:50 AM
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I am slightly perplexed?

From what I was told, it cost several hundred in order to modify Vortec's to take more lift. Add that to the base price of a used set and I am on the edge of my budget. And that's not even cam, lifters, or an intake.



Used Vortecs: 250+
Machine work + springs: 250+

That's just 200 shy of my remaining budget and I am still out intake, exhaust, and cam!
Old 12-27-2007, 02:16 PM
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Used vortecs can be had dirt cheap if you look hard enough. I scored some on ebay that were totally rebuilt with new valves & valvejob for $300. Bone stockers will cost you far less.

Run a cam with moderate lift (.500"-.530"ish) and the 2002+ LS6 beehive valvesprings ($60/set) bolt right up to vortecs. All that's required is cutting the valveguides down for retainer clearance, any decent machine shop will do that for less than $50.
Use a professional products crosswind intake (knockoff of rpm air gap), they're less than $150 new. A new Comp flat tappet cam kit with lifters is $175-180. So now you're at:

vortecs: 250ish
machine work: <50
springs: 60ish
intake: 150
cam kit: 180
shorty headers: 90
=
$775ish, run a summit cam kit instead of comp and knock $80-90 off that.....voila.

Last edited by jmm98LS1; 12-27-2007 at 04:21 PM.
Old 12-27-2007, 03:20 PM
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The summit shorty headers will not fit in your 240z, the only ones that I found would fit are made by Headman. http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku If you do go with the beehive springs you will also need matching retainers by Comp Cams for your 11/32" valves. http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku Due to hood clearance problems I would use a Performer EPS intake #2701. http://store.summitracing.com/partde...1&autoview=sku With your low compression this would be a good cam choice for your build in my opinion. http://store.summitracing.com/partde...K&autoview=sku Lastly, you are going to need a good drag radial in order to get that Z to hook on the street. I like what the MT ET street radials have to offer for you. http://store.summitracing.com/partde...0&autoview=sku I have seen this tire on a 66' Vette with a 502 BBC in it, hook so hard that he smoked his Centerforce dual friction clutch.
Old 12-27-2007, 08:41 PM
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How do you know that the Summit huggers will not fit on a 240z? You've tried them with the JTR kit and a small block?
Old 12-27-2007, 08:46 PM
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Yep!!
Old 12-27-2007, 08:49 PM
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Damn!
Old 12-27-2007, 09:03 PM
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Hmm, I just read that they do work on hybridz

Are you saying they didn't work because of the angle plugs? Hit the steering shaft? What?

Here is a post saying they do work:

http://www.zcar.com/forums/read/1/566788/566790

"I am using a set of Summit block hugger headers. They fit well but I would advise you to get the header bolts with the 3/8" hex head. As for the intake I have an Edelbrock RPM Airgap manifold and use a drop base aircleaner and there is no clearance problem b/t the aircleaner and the stock hood. The JTR manual will help out alot but if you have access to the right tools you can make the adapter plates for much cheaper. All of mine were built (by myself) from the blueprints in the JTR manual except fot the two aluminum motor mount T-blocks which I did buy from JTR

this is installed in a '72"

Ofcourse, they headers could be different than the ones you tried.

Last edited by Top Secret; 12-27-2007 at 09:15 PM.
Old 12-27-2007, 09:26 PM
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Whatever you do, go the vortec route! Dont waste your time or chance of screwing up your heads trying to port them yourself.
Old 12-27-2007, 10:00 PM
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Maybe things have changed since 1999. But that is what we ran into when we built the 383 for the 260z. Yes the air gap will fit, but your air cleaner is very small (2"-2 1/2" tall) and you end up starving the motor for air.
Old 12-29-2007, 07:49 PM
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I agree w/ everyone else, definitely go the vortec route. Don't waste your time/money on smog-era heads, ask me why I know...

Also, I've been informed that vortecs will outflow camel hump heads...in case you were wondering.
Old 12-29-2007, 08:58 PM
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I gree with the comments on the vortec heads. Patriot Performance also has a good deal on Aluminum heads with 2.02/1.60 stainless steel valves and come with I believe .525" or .550" max lift springs installed. Just over $700.00. Then use a nice cam to match that (150.00)and a set of headers (125.00) and a DIY exhaust setup(75.00) and a gasket kit for about $50.00 from advance auto parts(Fel-Pro) I mean you'll be over a $1,000.00 BUT. Regardless you'll be over that no matter how you go. I can gaurantee it. Especially with brackets, antifreeze, oil, trans. fluid, hoses, and all the other stuff. For the budget build I'd do that. Or you could look into a set of Aerohead Racing Heads (which are remanufactured heads) Andare located in Indiana. Their $400.00 for both heads. But they are available with 2.02/1.60 SS valves, 3 angle valve job, bronze valve guides, 76cc exhaust ports, 180ish intake ports, .525" max lift dual coil springs, and are nicely done. with a New Appearance. As far as an intake- Victor Jr. all the way. Hell if it's too tall cut a hole in the hood Good Luck.
James
Old 12-29-2007, 09:30 PM
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Originally Posted by LT1Formula007
look into a set of Aerohead Racing Heads (which are remanufactured heads) Andare located in Indiana. Their $400.00 for both heads. But they are available with 2.02/1.60 SS valves, 3 angle valve job, bronze valve guides, 76cc exhaust ports, 180ish intake ports, .525" max lift dual coil springs, and are nicely done. with a New Appearance.

So they're factory reman heads? How well do they flow compared to Vortecs?

I've read magazine articles where Aero heads were used on a BBC with pretty good results, but I haven't heard about how they are on SBCs.



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