01pewter2001z28

iTrader: (2)

Come on guys just let it go if he wants to build a TH 380 clone let him who really cares this is no different than the hundreds if not thousands of clone Copo ZL-1’s going around. It’s obvious this guy really likes the GMMG TH car so why are bashing the guy all he asked for was for some information on the car and also where to buy parts for his car. He has already said the car will be a clone IMHO no need for the name calling or bashing just let it go. I am pretty sure he already said he is not going to pass it off as a real Tom Henry car and those who know what the car is know these cars were only available in 2001 & 2002 and he has a 1998.

BOBS99SS

iTrader: (2)

if they sold the dh fenders there company would make a killing, i know i would be first in line for a set

BOBS99SS

iTrader: (2)

wow bloombox after reading some of your post your a jackass

35thAnniversaryPhil

iTrader: (1)

Guys, come back to the topic at hand. We are discussing the late GMMG's downfall from one of the leading and visionary LSx performance shops to what has become a shady, mysterious and abrupt bankruptcy.

Maybe they concentrated so much on tuning their F-bodies that they forgot to tune their balance sheets.

Sebring 00

My question remains; Who are the names of the people that Matt allegedly owns some huge amount of $ to?

jlaw380

I think the people that do know what happened are not going to post it up on a forum (just my $.02). It may be one of those things that when everyone looks back on it, there's going to be a variety of opinions, stories and ideas of what happened. Honestly as much as I would love to see GMMG back in business and making awesome cars, this will probably be a good thing for the values of our cars in the future. If you could buy a Yenko in every year from '68 to the present would the '69 Yenko's and such be as highly coveted and valued as they are? Something to think about....

35thAnniversaryPhil

iTrader: (1)

Definitely, by blocking the creation of more current and future GMMG cars, the value of the ones currently on the market will stabilize and retain more of their current value. In the future, GMMG cars will inevitably become like Yenkos, Motions, Danas, Baldwins and so on.

Furthermore, GMMG going bankrupt put a much needed cap on their modifying of returning GMMG customer's cars. For example; customers bringing in their Phase II to make it into a Phase IIx, from a Phase III to a Phase V and anything in between. It was getting ridiculous and impossible to follow, the parts changed along the way in a certain Phase for example and on top of that their head cam combos changed as well. It took a guy like Jim to start the GMMG registry to make some sense of the aftermarket mess GMMG created. The idea behind the phases was perfect but their execution of them in the real world was anything but.

MasterTomos

iTrader: (15)

i would have loved to see gmmg 5th gens

35thAnniversaryPhil

iTrader: (1)

Well I suppose that they were having financial problems as far back as 2008 in order to declare bankruptcy at the end of 2010/the beginning of 2011. So it makes sense that Matt could not begin to start projects with 5th generation Camaros and that's why GMMG never even offered one part for 5th gens even if the were around till the beginning of 2011, 1 1/2 years after 5th gens came out.

68 RS/SS Ragtop

I'm grateful to Jim for the registry, but it was technology that made the phases hard to track. ie Phase II Head/cam kits available in 03 would make say 125 extra horsepower vs head/cam kits available in 06 that cost the same money and were the same amount of work to install put out 175 extra horsepower. In order to keep track of cars with the additional horsepower he called them Phase IIx. So yes, maybe hard to track for the general public, but once you understand the logic behind it they start to make sense. So in that respect it looks as if he did the best he could because of advances in technology.

35thAnniversaryPhil

iTrader: (1)

The http://www.gmmginc.net/ website is still up even after 2 years of being bankrupt... is Matt planning to rise from the dead or what?

LateBrakeU2

iTrader: (3)

GMMG did more to keep the flame going on the camaro marque than did GM for the seven years of dormancy between gens. The problem was Matt lived in the 4th gen moment, and did not plan on life after them. It did turn ugly in the end, desperate people do desperate things, but thanks to people like Jim there is a now a caretaker of records for these very special cars.



Intimidator SS # 20
Signed, 35 miles

y2k_ta

iTrader: (80)

EXACTLY! Please stop the bashing of each other.

JS

iTrader: (4)

Gmmg will be sought after but to compare them to a real yenko, berger, nickey....nope not me

Sebring 00

Didn't GMMG do what Yenko, Berger and Nickey did in the 60's? Take production cars, 'enhance' them and offer them for sale to the public? Its well known that if a Yenko owner took his car to another GM dealer for warranty work, it would be denied.

On the other hand, all of the phase 1 GMMG cars could be taken to any GM dealer in the world for warranty or recall service and the factory warranty would be honored. I'd say that was foreward thinking by Matt/GMMG.

68 RS/SS Ragtop

Not sure about warranty work back in the 60's (Although Royal Pontiac's Bobcats were only dealer warrantied), but yes, any GMMG phase I car had full factory warranty (All mods were done pre-dealer delivery). And, like most of the dealers mentioned above, Matt made sure his cars were all COPO documented, unlike all the performance shops now that will upgrade your car, once dealer delivered, and most likely void your factory warranty.

JS

iTrader: (4)

Yenko, berger and nickey were dealerships that built their cars in-house
gmmg didnt....u can compare a gmmg to these classic icons...jmho

blk01gmmg

Yea but in the 60's I'm sure they had no Idea those cars would be what they are today I think in 30 years it could be a similar story. They will be a peice of history regardless. to try and guess how much they will be worth is pointless it depends on where the industry goes.. IMO they are kind of focusing on tryin to make Camaro's sort of hybrid to luxury/performance these days so if they shy to far away from the original platform.which is stream line I mean face it before the 5th gens who really bought their SS because it just rode so damn good.... So the 4th gen could very well by my generations (I'm 22) 69 yenko or somthing comparable. Not bashing on the 5th gens what's so ever I think they are good cars but this is about GMMG 4th gens so it's just my .02 cents. My self personally I got my intimidator to be a part of that history and enjoy the car hopefully keep it in my family for years to come. Didn't really do it for the numbers game.

02_Phase2_ZL1

Okay..................using your example..............what about the Baldwin Motion cars?

As I'm sure you're aware....................Baldwin Chevrolet teamed up with Joel Rosen of Motion Performance and these "Baldwin/Motion" cars became very collectable. Is this not the same as Tom Henry Chevrolet, Dale Earnhardt Chevrolet or Berger Chevrolet sending cars to GMMG for modification?

From the Motion Performance website:

Like any other dealer, Baldwin Chevrolet sold cars to the public. These are NOT motion cars. Only cars that "got the Motion Catalog thrown at it" became Motion cars, and were invoiced as such. Again, there were Motion cars, and there were Phase III cars. Not every Motion car had the Phase III treatment.

Not all cars modified by Motion Performance were delivered through Baldwin Chevrolet, (especially after Baldwin Chevrolet went out of biz). Stand alone Motion Performance Automobiles are generally called Conversions.

Cars such as this were also built by other well known conversion shops such as Dick Harrell Performance in Kansas City Missouri & Bill Thomas Race Cars in Anaheim California.

Every Motion car was invoiced and delivered out of Baldwin Chevrolet until the dealership was sold around 1972. After 1972, cars were obtained from various Chevrolet dealers and Motion cars were invoiced out of Motion Performance. The criteria for obtaining new Chevrolets was based on the dealers ability to deliver a car in a timely manner (and I assume price was a factor too?). Remember, GM was on strike in 1972.

EVERY car came with an invoice.


I have to agree with others.......................and I know my opionion is biased since I own a GMMG Camaro..................I do think that they will appreciate in value and if they don't..................I really don't care...........I purchased mine to enjoy and I do enjoy it TO THE MAX.

LateBrakeU2

iTrader: (3)

History will relate a good % of those cars sat on lots for months without buyers- in the case of the Gibb ZL1 cars quite few of those were even returned to the dealership. Many were found out in fields and barns as they were abandoned during the fuel embargo of the early seventies- hardly collectible at the time. Now for the scant few that held on to theirs for years the tide did turn- and it put their kids through college with the profits. Did they plan it that way, or was it just a nice benefit of the passion for them?

No, you can't compare them to to dealer built cars of five decades ago, EPA took care of that dynamic long ago. However,these cars underwent federal emissions certification and were only available through a specific dealer network,fully under contract with GM. They are a homage to the halcyon days of muscle, apparentley pretty en vouge if you look how hard the big three are trying to cash in on it with current iterations of them.


Will we catch lightning in a bottle with GMMG? cars?. Plan on not so much. But..one day down the road perhaps they get "discovered" and go the way of the first gen dealer cars. The cool thing about that is, the same folks that enjoy them now and could care less about what they will be worth will be rewarded for being custodians of them, because in the grand scheme that's all we are.