whppdyomnkyazz

now im gonna stir up the wasps nest, what i meant by that last statement, is Ford has provided its enthusiast with a good platform to build off of, very solid engine... and chevy has yet to do the same for you, what im sayin is, i hope they follow suit, and sell some sort of muscle car that has a brute of an engine too, and all you need is boltons and you go run 10s... thats my point, the LS1 is probably the best pushrod engine ever made IMHO, tho im positive i dont have knowledge of one that may be better or comparable, i am familiar with domestic ****, and as far as factory pushrod stuff, the LS1 is the best, and even tho it is smooth and clean, and it is fuel efficient yada yada, it is still behind, and its flat out not a good enough base for you to build off of to compete with the new cobra... not your faults of course, i got a bit heated in that post above, but stangs are my passion, and all this bashing goin on makes me wanna bash yalls stuff... but truth be told i love TAs and camaros too, but luckily ford threw its enthusiasts a bone with this last cobra

whppdyomnkyazz

1000 bucks to build a shortblock that can take 600 rwhp??? where???? especially an LS1... drugs are bad...

whppdyomnkyazz

13.1@110????? hahahaha!!!Dave has a GT with nothin but bolt ons... and he runs 12.8 @ 105.... on street tires the 03 goes 12.7ish with a competent driver...bone stock ladies and gentlemen... ive seen a few that ran 14s... but that driver is a disgrace and needs help, but likewise ive seen TA drivers that couldnt even park straight, so how is that a fair arguement???

whppdyomnkyazz

how is it differnt??? come on thats stupid lets try this on for size... WEIGHT and AERO... dude you have no clue how much experience i have with doing extensive modifications... noe clue at all, and i know all about the pain in the *** it can be to get something such a monster to run right with any sort of manners... believe me... and if you scroll up you will see where a few people said they could make 600 rwhp on the stock short block and it oculd be done reliably... and others blew the whistle and pulled out the BS flag

whppdyomnkyazz

btw, dont be done, you seem to be one of the few competents to post

whppdyomnkyazz

other points: vette is a race car with a small engine and a few things throwin in for street worthiness... the cobra is a sedan with a beast engine thrown into the mix.... the vette is leaps and bounds ahead of the cobra in suspension(stock vs. stock) and performance potential as far as platform... not engine

whppdyomnkyazz

im am far from F-body expert, and i woudlnt say im a cobra expert... but i guarentee i can talk circles around most of the people that even own them... im a fanatical researcher, and i have a lot of hands on dealin Ford and GM products... i do know the stang inside and out, any year, however my knowledge is tenfold from 79-present vs those that came before it(i know them well, but i really dont even know what a 2+2 package is, and what scoop came on what.. that kinda crap)

tho misunderstandings run rampant where typing is involved, here goes: the 03 cobra is better starting point for reliable 10 sec (bolt on) power that can be daily driven(IMO)... a lot of that comes from its boosted nature that allows a much more livable low RPM with a screaming 2500-redline... 4 valves and OHC design help a lot too, in fact i think harmonics and windage have a lot to do with the OHC being a better design as opposed to a central mounted cam... ok enough of that, i mainly jumped in cuz i coudlnt stand people to dog the cobra that really had no clue of its potential from the factory... im sure the sticker of a WS6 new vs a new cobra is very similar, and somewhere it came down to whcih one made a more reliable 600 rwhp the easiest for the least amount of money invested after purchase. people have already said it cant even be done without swapping engines in the LS1s... and the cobras have proven themselves to be more than capable of handling such power---sans IRS--- well the ones that are done right... by done right i mean were tuned by a pro, and got the necessary support, not just a mail order bolt on frenzy, and stock IRS tryin to hold up, and to me its a lot easier to change a blower pulley than most all of the rotating assembly... hell even bolting on a better blower isnt that hard when compared to pulling an LS1 for the necessary mods... both cars have way too many wires, the cobra has like 2 inches of clearance between the top of the valve cover and the shock towers (a real PITA when trying to install headers)... ok so both are great cars, but the cobra seems the obvious car to be quicker for less $$$ cobras have run 10s on the stock blower with an exhaust and no other engine mods... lets see the WS6 do that... and with a 75 shot, he hit the 9s ... "nitrous pete" was the first into the 9s with that car period, and that he did it with a stock huffer....

my comments on the vettes are based on what ive read... i know i cannot trust everything i read, but thats why people like you are here to set me straight... i have no wrench time on the newer vettes whatsoever... i couldnt even tell you waht side of the engine the dipstick is on... last thing for now... how is an LT1 just as good as an LS1? man im just not seein it

whppdyomnkyazz

i lied... well not really i just left out detail... cobras with stock blowers have gone 10s with full exhaust, better air filter, smaller blower pulley, and a tune to safely handle the new boost

2002_TAWS6

whppdyomnkyazz, how reliable do you think 19#s of boost is on the cobra motor? Isnt that a little too much for a daily driver setup? How much power can you make with the stock supercharger?

Do tell us a little more about what needs to be modified/upgraded to make 600rwhp on the 03 cobras. Any dyno charts that you can show? I would be interested to see the hp and torque curves. So what the story on the 600rwhp cobra, do you have to upgrade anything internally? Probably need better rods and stuff right? What about the transmission and drivetrain components? I heard the rear ends on the cobras are just as bad as fbodies is that true? How bad do the pulleys slip with 19#s of boost? Are people having problems with their pulleys? how long would they last?

If you could list the exact stuff that needs to be upgraded i would highly appreciate that. I bet lots of minor stuff will have to go like plugs, injectors... etc ..etc . Let me know what needs to be done ..

thanks

WAHUSKER

iTrader: (4)

I think the LS1 has more potential than just about any motor that has ever been built. My car has 370rwhp thru an auto and I haven't done anything to the engine yet. And it still gets over 20mpg (thank God!).

True, the Cobra responds well to mods also, and I have a lot of respect for what they get out of a 289! But I bet if I strapped an 8lb ATI on my car, I could get close to 500rwhp with the stock motor, 600 with heads & cam, and who knows how much more with some serious engine work.

So IMO the two cars are comparable. The Cobra has more from the factory (now) & it's price tag reflects that, as does the Z06, or the Viper, or the....but there is NO doubt which car looks better, or is more comfortable to ride in. Give me a Ram Air, hands down, ANY day!

Now, shall we talk about which one is a better road race car?

whppdyomnkyazz

19#s is nothing, of course they can take it, hell the years before the better shortblock were takin 12#s from a vortech without sayin uncle... now they got forged Hbeams and pistons to go with the same forged crank they have had since the beginning... in fact ford started out rather skimpily on the 4.6 setup... not 289, 281, in my mom's 96 cobra, she has powdered rods and hyper pathetic pistons that dont have enough skirt length to safely support any RPMs over 5000... which is stupid, thats a 4 V engine and that thing doesnt even show the beginning of the red on the tack till 7K... and it likes you to shift just before 8... so its a revvin motha... ok back to what you asked, yes they can take it, and holler for more... and yes that can be daily driven...

a good tune does wonders for a blower car, and the drivability per hp vs. a N/A combo is ridiculously better, tho i hear turbo cars have even more drivability with even more hp... again im wanderin off here... i know you can break 500 RWHP with the stock blower and an exhaust, i think its closer to 550, but thats the end of the line, most people go to kenne belle because its a much more efficient rotor design with the twin screw, and the boost potential is there should you want more... a lot of people go to the kenne belle and run about 12#s and call it a day... the ones that wanna go to 600RW have some more work to do... i forgot about another detail that is expensive, the stock mass air meter is pegged out before you hit 600 RW usually, and has to be replaced with a pro-m univer unit usually and that is about 350+$$ so add that in

HA! i have no curves to post, but the torque curve on one of those cars is amazing... it hovers about 50or so away(unless the eaton is modded, then the torque runs further away from the starting point in themidrange) from peak torque at less than 2000 RPM and usually carries a nice flat curve along the way, peaks around 4000 and under, the hp curves are different from car to carso thats that... if you want a dyno graph get to corral.net go to the forums and get in the DOHC forum, im sure youll catch an earfull of info from those guys, granted alot of the ford guys with the newer cars are cocky ignorant *************************... yeah you get the point, but you still might be able to muster up some info from an owner of one of these beasts

the only problems with the smaller pulleys is they dust the belt, usually somewhat cured by getting a better tensioner and crankin the ***** out of it putting ungodly tension on the belt, they usually step it up even more for the track with a little bit of belt dressing i bet, tho they never admit to that, ive seen it done... in fact my stepdad has to use belt dressing on his combo as well... but thats a pushrod engine in an earlier fox chassis... different ballgame... tho he does have 10 rib pulleys.. anyway, thats about the only complication with putting on the smaller pulley, of course aside from the tune that needs to go with it and as far as how long will they last... i dont know that has been a factor as of thus far

as for what it takes to make one 600RW... here goes.. again http://www.modularfords.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=12440
if it were my car: the new procharger kit and an exhaust... if i wanted to get greedy with more boost im afraid id have to get a better air meter as well... procharger kit, i just searched and foudn its under 4000 and you dont have to upgrade anything else as it comes with all you need, and makes just under 600 RW w/o full exhaust, and around 620 with full exhaust... they say this is running between 14-17#s this is with the P-1SC unit and only a 6 rib belt, torque and hp are peaking at 6000ish on these cars, a constant climb untill shut off RW:592 hp @ 6K, 518 tq at 6K...17psi... they added 55lb injectors and a slightly smaller pulley to get 19 lbs, that is all, and made 655 hp and climibing at shutoff of 6500RPM, and tq was 540 @ 5700ish...the stage II kit is a bit more pricey, tho they havnet released the numbers yet, and it makes well over 700 to the tires, reliably without hiccupping

i would probably venture to say your rears are touchger than the cobra's... those IRS halfshafts just arent cutting it with that kind of power in that heavy of a car... that is deifnately the weak link.. and sto far most T-56s have held the power, as long as you arent a jackass driver and try to force the tranny to do things it doesnt wanna... if that isnt enough info i can surely collect mroe, i threw that site in earlier as a source of how easy 600 rw really is for these cars

whppdyomnkyazz

and sure we can talk about which is a better road race car, go for it dude, gimme 1500 to spend at maximum motorsports and lets go racin

whppdyomnkyazz

must have forgotten the cobras are IRS cars...and with that kinda torque for out of the corners and superior braking... id be doin a boot dance on your forehead after about 3-4 laps

Rokko

iTrader: (2)

That I would like to see.

WAHUSKER

iTrader: (4)

Throw your $1500 worth of mods on & Bring It. The only Mustangs I know of that can hang with or out-handle f-bodies say Saleen on them....and they all cost $60k or better. Sorry, but Mustangs handle like $hit in comparison.

Tranzor

Ok man... first off, the Cobra is NOT a sedan. Last time I checked, it is exactly two doors short of sedan status. Second, the 'Vette is not a 'race car'. It does fit the exact definition of sports car... if you need to, look up the definitions of 'sports car' and 'race car' and see which one it fits. There is no stock trim race car on the street... but ANYTHING on the planet can be made into a race car with the proper amount of prep.

Third, while yes I agree that the Cobra does offer a great level of performance for the domestic car enthusiast, the engine used in that application is not any more special than the LS1 is. It's an iron small block with a blower on it... Wow, boy that has NEVER been done before.

And you keep saying that the Cobra can be made faster than the LS1 dollar for dollar... I'm sorry, but that just isn't true. My car cost 24k brand new off the lot, and last time I checked around in my part of the country, you can't drive a new Cobra off a lot for less than 35k. So now that's an 11k budget gap between the two. Do you know how much faster I can make my car given the same 35k budget than a stock Cobra... hell, I don't have $4000 in mods done on my car (including an $1800 rear end, mind you) and I've walked a stock Cobra on the street, and I haven't seen one yet at the local tracks that can post better than a low 13. That means I've spent a grand total of 28k for my car, which can walk a stock Cobra as it sits right now, and still have another 7k left over for heads, cam, a procharger, nitrous or whatever else I would like to add to suck the doors off of a Cobra on the same 35k budget.

The amount of power a Cobra is pushing off the showroom floor would be impressive, if it didn't have to use a blower to achieve it... hell, the amount of performance that 4 bangers like the STi and the Evo get out of forced induction is way more impressive. If I bought a 5k procharger kit for my Camaro and only got 390hp, I'd be severely disappointed... and I wouldn't have even paid 30k for my car plus supercharger, let alone the 35+k that the Cobra owner paid for their car stock.

Tranzor

Yeah no kidding... I guess all those super pro and funny cars should be running blown Fords.

ram-it

From the dealer GMHTP mag posted better numbers with a 99 FCR vette at 12.66 secs and 99 Z28 at 12.89 sec. No one has done better with a STOCK Cobra. That means not even a damn tire pressure change was done. Hell, Hot Rod magazine barely beat a WRX STI with a Cobra a couple of issues ago. I can't believe how everyone seems to give up the farm and cave in on all this BS. Any car can be made fast. As they came from the factory it will come down to drivers period.

whppdyomnkyazz

281 inches never made that kind of power with a warranty and all forged internals, in a domestic vehicle... eat your heart out

the amount of hp would be impressive if it didnt use a blower yada yada... ok smarty pants... what would happen if that 281 inches grew to 346 to make it even... youd get your **** wiped out.. no more walking, the cobra would run away from you quite badly, thats woulda and coulda, i understand your pissed cuz GM cut your car off and your aftermarket suffers for it, so you have to pay like 500 bucks for a clutch and stuff, but get real... 281 cubes... wheres the cheapy that makes that power with 281 cubes... not only be power but the warranty, and the smoothness of overall operation... it doesnt exist, i really dont know why ford ditched the cubes... but thats how it is, and for as small of an engine as that is with 6 lbs of boost from a shitpants (inefficient yet cost effective i suppose) supercharger... i am impressed

the cobra is a family car compared to the vette, and the vette has hella race inspiration, the cobra is a souped up sporty family car.. sorry fella

btw... the cobra is makin 650 hp with an out of the box blower on the supplied pulley... with no fear of engine failure... your LS1 will never be up to that task(for very long) no matter what you say, as far as out the gate from GM is concerned

the cobra is the domestic car of the century, so i guess that makes it of all time, nothing has ever gone that fast with a warranty and been so affordable, and yet offered a fantastic basis for mods right off the showroom floor

you didnt mention what all you had done to your car.. but if its things like exhaust and a rearend... man get real... and the people at your local track suck ***** at driving... people aorund here suck too, but lets get real.. what is that low 13 mph'n at... yeah i thought so, that fella is spinnin his ***** off through third gear... and prolly doesnt have much for mods either... once again... get real

whppdyomnkyazz

out of the box procharger that is