S2000 vs. WS6
#61
#62
^^^ I agree. I was talking about the smaller displacement motors being gutless. Look at the Lotus Elise. It is strong all the way threw the powerband. And it doesn't have a power adder.
#63
I have ran a 11.3 at 133mph.I have a vid of me running a 11.3 at 128 with my old set-up.
If you build the car right, as with any car, it will be fast. As we all know, if you have 2 cars built teh same the one with the larger motor will win... No matter, heres a vid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufVtz16qFko
If you build the car right, as with any car, it will be fast. As we all know, if you have 2 cars built teh same the one with the larger motor will win... No matter, heres a vid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufVtz16qFko
#64
don't forget the part about how little TQ those engines produce. those car are horrible for anything under 60mph. your basically fighting an uphill battle with those cars to make them quick in the 1/4.
i like the look of them. but when i was able to out run one from a dig then even from a roll in my GP gxp. i seen how weak they are in stock form. i do like them and for verts they grip very well but, im curious how long there engine,trannies last with those huge turbo setups
i like the look of them. but when i was able to out run one from a dig then even from a roll in my GP gxp. i seen how weak they are in stock form. i do like them and for verts they grip very well but, im curious how long there engine,trannies last with those huge turbo setups
Last edited by GXPPOWER; 12-18-2008 at 08:28 PM.
#65
#66
#67
In a normal car (2800lbs+) a 2.0L is going to be gutless.
#68
"Problem," was the wrong word... "issue," would be better. Engines are getting smaller, so things other than displacement are being used to make power. 346ci would be a small motor 20-30 years ago, but it's pretty large today. Advancements in technology are being used to decrease engine sizes across the board. The great new GM V6s are now 3.5l instead of 3.8l. Because they aren't equal. The 3.5l design is better than the 3.8l design, negating the need for the larger displacement. And for whatever reason WRC homologation rules dictate a specific maximum engine size, which is what Subaru/Mitsubishi follows. Of course if they were larger than 2.0l they would make more power, which is kinda the reason for the rules. And the reason why the US-spec STI uses a 2.5l instead of the 2.0, and why people routinely stroke the 4G63s in EVOs. And the reason that they '04+ S2000s use a 2.2l instead of 2.0l. Not every car can have a 300ci+ V8. You bitch so much about the EVO, yet you do nothing but praise the less-powerful (albeit less peaky) new Cobalt SS. How about a little complaint about why they use a 2.0l displacement for it, instead of the 2.2 or 2.4l size? Or does the fact that it's American exclude it from any criticism? And the same comments extend to the Sky/Solstice.
#70
don't forget the part about how little TQ those engines produce. those car are horrible for anything under 60mph. your basically fighting an uphill battle with those cars to make them quick in the 1/4.
i like the look of them. but when i was able to out run one from a dig then even from a roll in my GP gxp. i seen how weak they are in stock form. i do like them and for verts they grip very well but, im curious how long there engine,trannies last with those huge turbo setups
i like the look of them. but when i was able to out run one from a dig then even from a roll in my GP gxp. i seen how weak they are in stock form. i do like them and for verts they grip very well but, im curious how long there engine,trannies last with those huge turbo setups
#71
I dont understand why people with V8 cars always talk about tq. If you look at ANY dyno Hp and Tq meet around 5600rpms. I lunch at 8000rpms and red line at 9800. When I shift, it never falls below 6200rpms. My point is, Tq is not everything. Im still pulling 1.9 60ft with stock tires.
#72
Not every car can have a 300ci+ V8. You bitch so much about the EVO, yet you do nothing but praise the less-powerful (albeit less peaky) new Cobalt SS. How about a little complaint about why they use a 2.0l displacement for it, instead of the 2.2 or 2.4l size? Or does the fact that it's American exclude it from any criticism? And the same comments extend to the Sky/Solstice.
The Evo, on the other hand, is the best car Mitsubishi has to offer. Meaning their halo $35-$40K performance car shares similar traits with GM's entry level $23K sport compact. Both are performance versions of economy cars, both are 4 cylinders, both are turbo. Major difference being the price, you can get 95% of the performance of an Evo for $15K less by buying a Cobalt SS turbo. And not only that, but the Cobalt will cost a lot less to maintain, its more reliable, it looks a hell of a lot nicer, and its got a much better powerband and achieves significantly higher fuel economy numbers. Plus you won't have to get made fun of for driving a mitsubishi. If thats not convincing enough I don't know what is.
#73
I dont understand why people with V8 cars always talk about tq. If you look at ANY dyno Hp and Tq meet around 5600rpms. I lunch at 8000rpms and red line at 9800. When I shift, it never falls below 6200rpms. My point is, Tq is not everything. Im still pulling 1.9 60ft with stock tires.
Some of us daily drive our cars. There is no substitute for V8 torque. It gives you the ability to lope around town or on the highway all day at under 2,000RPM, saving both fuel and wear and tear on the motor, while still having tons of top end power if you feel so inclined to use it. Starting off on a hill doesn't have to be a balancing act between frying the clutch and stalling the engine, you just ease off the clutch while touching the gas ever so slighty and you're off. Amazing concept for a Honda driver, I know. Half the time I don't even touch the gas to move up in traffic, just give it some clutch at idle and I'm moving along no problem.
I guess you have to experience torque to appreciate it. If all you've ever known is 4 bangers, you obviously wouldn't understand.
#74
Have you ever driven an S2000? Because I never have any problems negotiating traffic. And I'm sitting at just over 83k miles on the stock clutch, so I don't know why you think you would be "frying the clutch" in traffic. Like I said, more torque would always be nice, but it isn't the downfall of an otherwise-great car.
#75
Have you ever driven an S2000? Because I never have any problems negotiating traffic. And I'm sitting at just over 83k miles on the stock clutch, so I don't know why you think you would be "frying the clutch" in traffic. Like I said, more torque would always be nice, but it isn't the downfall of an otherwise-great car.
I've had 4 people in my car, and I've still be able to punch the gas in a parking lot in 2nd gear and whip the tail around, and thats with 285/40 Eagle F1's. Its just a completely different ballgame.
#77
Not everyone lives their life a 1/4 mile at a time
Some of us daily drive our cars. There is no substitute for V8 torque. It gives you the ability to lope around town or on the highway all day at under 2,000RPM, saving both fuel and wear and tear on the motor, while still having tons of top end power if you feel so inclined to use it. Starting off on a hill doesn't have to be a balancing act between frying the clutch and stalling the engine, you just ease off the clutch while touching the gas ever so slighty and you're off. Amazing concept for a Honda driver, I know. Half the time I don't even touch the gas to move up in traffic, just give it some clutch at idle and I'm moving along no problem.
I guess you have to experience torque to appreciate it. If all you've ever known is 4 bangers, you obviously wouldn't understand.
Some of us daily drive our cars. There is no substitute for V8 torque. It gives you the ability to lope around town or on the highway all day at under 2,000RPM, saving both fuel and wear and tear on the motor, while still having tons of top end power if you feel so inclined to use it. Starting off on a hill doesn't have to be a balancing act between frying the clutch and stalling the engine, you just ease off the clutch while touching the gas ever so slighty and you're off. Amazing concept for a Honda driver, I know. Half the time I don't even touch the gas to move up in traffic, just give it some clutch at idle and I'm moving along no problem.
I guess you have to experience torque to appreciate it. If all you've ever known is 4 bangers, you obviously wouldn't understand.
Lets put it this way. If you want to tow a car you need tq, if your car is 3700lbs you need tq, if you have a a high gear ratio you need tq.
What people need to look at is there dyno. Look at the power under the curve. How long do you make good power? 2-3k rpms? Say you make good power at 2500rpms and redline at 6500. So you have 4000rpms of good power. Now in my car I make good power around 5500rpms and readline at 10000. So I have power for 4500rpms. Who cares where you make as long as you make it for a good bit.
If a "4 banger" cant make tq please tell me why InlinePros s2000 pulls both wheels off of ground on the start????
#78
If I remember right you and I have bitched about the tq thing many times in the past.
Lets put it this way. If you want to tow a car you need tq, if your car is 3700lbs you need tq, if you have a a high gear ratio you need tq.
What people need to look at is there dyno. Look at the power under the curve. How long do you make good power? 2-3k rpms? Say you make good power at 2500rpms and redline at 6500. So you have 4000rpms of good power. Now in my car I make good power around 5500rpms and readline at 10000. So I have power for 4500rpms. Who cares where you make as long as you make it for a good bit.
If a "4 banger" cant make tq please tell me why InlinePros s2000 pulls both wheels off of ground on the start????
Lets put it this way. If you want to tow a car you need tq, if your car is 3700lbs you need tq, if you have a a high gear ratio you need tq.
What people need to look at is there dyno. Look at the power under the curve. How long do you make good power? 2-3k rpms? Say you make good power at 2500rpms and redline at 6500. So you have 4000rpms of good power. Now in my car I make good power around 5500rpms and readline at 10000. So I have power for 4500rpms. Who cares where you make as long as you make it for a good bit.
If a "4 banger" cant make tq please tell me why InlinePros s2000 pulls both wheels off of ground on the start????
and as long as a larger Engine gives more HP to weight it is going to be more beneficial than a smaller liter engine. and yes you may stay at 6k rpms and stay withing your powerband but if you still have gutless tq at your high Peak power RPM then it doesnt matter.
i love the look of the cars. and think there nice cars. but i will never consider it a good platform for a straight line performance car. iIlaugh when people bring up "well it can own you in turns" because a VERY low % of people race there cars in turns in closed courses.
Last edited by GXPPOWER; 12-23-2008 at 02:45 PM.