Street Racing & Kill Stories Basic Technical Questions & Advice

Me vs. modded skittle

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Old 12-25-2008, 10:50 PM
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Originally Posted by 180ls1
well yes boosted cars should benefit also but not as much as a n/a car will. but i dont see how a boosted car will gain more, can you explain your logic behind it. Because i am pretty sure i am right here.

both n/a and fi cars will gain power due to the drop in iat's. But the na car will be able to fill its cylinders with the cooler more dense air where as the fi's cars cylinders are allready being filled with a certain amount of air because of the turbo or supercharger so the volume will stay the same. Assuming that the owner is still running the same boost pressure, the bov or bypass valve or wastegate will keep the boost the same reguardless of the air temp.
Thank you for verifying. I'm sure you are right that a n/a car will benefit more than a FI car, that is why I stated it. Colder air will keep that turbo cool and more consistant but it's not like it's getting more PSI. Also this isn't a grudge match, he's an aquaintance of mine. As for me weighing 300 pounds more than the neon as stated above, I doubt it. The FRC's are proven to weigh anywhere from 3000-31xx pounds. I've seen a Neon weigh in 3000. We are definatly going to race soon, unfortunatly it's been raining a lot here. I'll get two races out of him, a 20 roll from me, and a speed of his choice. It should be a good match I think. I'll make sure to get it on video for you all to watch.
Old 12-25-2008, 10:50 PM
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Originally Posted by PowerShift408
Darrell *** Racing makes a twin turbo kit for Skittles. I know it doesn't make much sense, but some guys wanted them so they produced them.
ya i know there are kits out there that is why i said most. and the op stated that the neon has a 50trim turbo. But i will have to check it out.

Last edited by 180ls1; 12-25-2008 at 11:26 PM.
Old 12-25-2008, 10:56 PM
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Originally Posted by corysmach1
To be honest I cant really explain my logic....I am just going off of what I have seen....03/04 Cobras are known for getting hot. I am just saying I have seen Cobras dyno numbers drop 20rwhp on the dyno after 1-2 pulls my Mach never dropped more that 5-7rwhp on the dyno.
that is a heat soak issue not an air temp issue. the temp outside going from one pull to the next is not what is making the difference, it is an issue with the setup. Not the air outside, becuase in that little bit of time between pulls the outside air simply cant change enough to make that big of a difference.
Old 12-25-2008, 11:08 PM
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Originally Posted by phantazn
colder air = denser, more oxygen per volume.

assuming boost stays the same, a turbo car will be packing in more extra oxygen than an n/a car. throw in lower iats and egts which would allow it to pack in even more oxygen while keeping the same volume of air, and youll see why a turbod car benefits more from cooler temps than a n/a car.

my ta loves colder weather, but my fiances wrx loves it more. its a much more noticeable difference in her car when the temps drop.
no i dont see why, i explained why for my reasoning can you explain yours more.

you said it will be packing more oxy? you cant just say that with out giving a reason as to why. a n/a car will benefit from lower iat's also so you can rule out that arguement. and egt's are a problem area created by boosted cars not a help (n/a cars dont have problems with egt's usually) so you can rule that out also.
Old 12-25-2008, 11:15 PM
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Originally Posted by SSilver Bullet
Thank you for verifying. I'm sure you are right that a n/a car will benefit more than a FI car, that is why I stated it. Colder air will keep that turbo cool and more consistant but it's not like it's getting more PSI. Also this isn't a grudge match, he's an aquaintance of mine. As for me weighing 300 pounds more than the neon as stated above, I doubt it. The FRC's are proven to weigh anywhere from 3000-31xx pounds. I've seen a Neon weigh in 3000. We are definatly going to race soon, unfortunatly it's been raining a lot here. I'll get two races out of him, a 20 roll from me, and a speed of his choice. It should be a good match I think. I'll make sure to get it on video for you all to watch.
Well he might have a slight weight advantage but not much. I would say race him on a cooler night if you get a chance but make sure it is safe ans not too cold and slick. It looks like you are being hit by the same storm that i am being hit by right now you should have lots of rain the next few days. And ya get a video, should be a good race you will have your hands full once he gets traction.
Old 12-26-2008, 01:12 AM
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I'm gonna have to say that all cars benefit equally from colder air. Any additional pressure picked up by the turbo car will be picked up by the N/A car as well. That's just my opinion, not backed by anything though.
Old 12-26-2008, 06:20 AM
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Originally Posted by corysmach1
To be honest I cant really explain my logic....I am just going off of what I have seen....03/04 Cobras are known for getting hot. I am just saying I have seen Cobras dyno numbers drop 20rwhp on the dyno after 1-2 pulls my Mach never dropped more that 5-7rwhp on the dyno.
Your car isnt on a fixed amount of psi like a turbo car, manifold pressure prolly goes up a few psi when its cold out in your car. A turbo'd cars wastegate will regulate the boost and a supercharger generally has nothing to regulate boost, So in my experience supercharged cars do seem to pick up more than a N/A car in the cold weather.
Old 12-26-2008, 10:31 AM
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From my experience, FI cars (I have two right now, including a skittle) really pick up in cold weather. It's very noticeable. As for the skittle, it loves the cold air. Boost is referenced to atmospheric conditions so you get more than just the extra air from it being denser. The computer adds timing which makes the boost come on sooner and harder. Also, if the car has a boost controller, the driver can turn it up higher in colder weather, fuel permitting. Traction is always an issue, but from a roll it's usually ok. From a dig, things would be interesting...

The vette is gonna lose if the neon guy can drive. That thing should be trapping 120+ mph or so against a vette that does what, 11X?
Old 12-26-2008, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by capn smokey
Your car isnt on a fixed amount of psi like a turbo car, manifold pressure prolly goes up a few psi when its cold out in your car. A turbo'd cars wastegate will regulate the boost and a supercharger generally has nothing to regulate boost, So in my experience supercharged cars do seem to pick up more than a N/A car in the cold weather.
Yeah thats what I was thinking....
Old 12-28-2008, 08:16 PM
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Originally Posted by 180ls1
no i dont see why, i explained why for my reasoning can you explain yours more.

you said it will be packing more oxy? you cant just say that with out giving a reason as to why. a n/a car will benefit from lower iat's also so you can rule out that arguement. and egt's are a problem area created by boosted cars not a help (n/a cars dont have problems with egt's usually) so you can rule that out also.
Generally speaking the turbo car will pick up a pretty decent amount of power in the cold. Has nothing to do really with the boost level but the IAT. The lower the IAT the more timing the computer will add. More timing = More power. Whats a degree or two of timing do to a NA motor? maybe 10 HP? My buddys TT 4v picked up about 60 RWHP from 3-5 degrees i cant remember exactly. Its the same concept as when you spray nitrous or Co2 into the intercooler.
Old 12-28-2008, 08:29 PM
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It was 108 degrees outside at my last tune and my tuner said intake temperatures were between 130 and 140. The best the car put down was 364whp. That was August. Two weeks ago the same shop had a dyno day. Temperatures were in the high 40's and low 50's. The average of the three pulls was 388whp. Same setup on the car. Same dyno. Same giant fan facing the FMIC. I doubt many naturally aspirated motors could pick up 25whp. I think forced induction cars might like the cold weather a little more.
Old 12-28-2008, 08:45 PM
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well good kills! i really wanna run against one. when i was heading home one night on the highway. one came up next to me and spooled up his turbo to try and get me to run. but it was kind of raining here and there. so i wasnt going to risk it. but good luck on the next run. KEEP US UPDATED..
Old 12-28-2008, 09:54 PM
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There's a difference between loosing power on a hot day and actually GAINING power on a cool day.
You're not gaining power on the cool day, you're just loosing it on the hot day...



If that makes sense....................
Old 12-28-2008, 10:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Steiner
It was 108 degrees outside at my last tune and my tuner said intake temperatures were between 130 and 140. The best the car put down was 364whp. That was August. Two weeks ago the same shop had a dyno day. Temperatures were in the high 40's and low 50's. The average of the three pulls was 388whp. Same setup on the car. Same dyno. Same giant fan facing the FMIC. I doubt many naturally aspirated motors could pick up 25whp. I think forced induction cars might like the cold weather a little more.
+1

I picked up a solid 2mph in the 1/8th alone going from the summer in 80deg weather to 50deg winter weather. No other changes, even the tune remained the same.




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