Heads/Cam 2002 Z28 vs Stock 2007 GSX-R600 (PSM)
05-11-2010, 09:40 PM
#1
Heads/Cam 2002 Z28 vs Stock 2007 GSX-R600 (PSM) PSM and I went out for a cruise and lined up a few times. This should put some perspective on the races that have been popping up lately with everyone seemly pulling on bikes while driving their mom's minivan and such.
My car is a heads/cam/bolt-on/12-bolt 2002 Z28. In street trim it puts down 422/372. Last week it trapped consistent 119 mph (race trim is 432/386). At the track I was on 28" Mickey Thompson drag radials, which tend to slow the trap speed down a little over the 26" Nittos that I had on today (I figure it evens out the fact that the cutout was closed today).
PSM's bike is a 2007 GSX-R600 that is bone stock.
For all races I was by myself and had the windows up and t-tops on with about 1/2 a tank or less of gas.
We did 2 rolls starting at 40 mph with me in 2nd gear and him in first. Both races he waited for me to hit it and then went. Both races he instantly started pulling away hard. By the top of 4th gear I had slowed his pull, but he was still creeping. He probably had between 4 and 6 car lengths on me (it was far enough ahead that it was hard to judge actual lengths). More than far enough that it normally wouldn't be worth doing again since it was basically a massacre.
Next up we did a 40 mph start with both of us starting in 2nd gear. This time I jumped out almost exactly 1 car length before he started pulling back. At about 100 mph he passed me pretty hard and probably had 2-3 cars on me by the top of 4th gear.
Next we did the same 40 roll with me in second gear, but he started in 3rd gear. This time I jumped out bery hard. I don't remember how far (PSM can chime in if he remembers), but probably 2-3 cars. He started pulling back a bit and we had to stop the run before the top of 4th (maybe 110 mph), but I don't think he would have caught me before the top of 4th. He was definitely gaining though.
Lastly we did a 70 mph roll with me in 3rd gear and him in 2nd gear. This time it appeared that I was going to hang when we both hit it, but shortly after he started pulling good and was probably 3-4 car lengths ahead by the top of 4th.
Very fun runs, but it really puts the whole bike thing into perspective. I realize that the older carbed bikes were quite a bit slower, but the newer bikes are no joke. This was just a baby 600 and it would have been possible for him to toy with my 120 mph car and still put lengths on it at will.
At some point I will take a camera man and get some nice videos for visual reference. I will also try the nitrous at some point, but I honestly don't think that a 100 shot is going to put me near a win from a 40 mph start.
Once I have traction we will also do a 20 mph roll in 1st gear as that will put him below his powerband and I should jump out before he pulls back. We will do this race NA and on spray too, but I need new drag radials first.
My car is a heads/cam/bolt-on/12-bolt 2002 Z28. In street trim it puts down 422/372. Last week it trapped consistent 119 mph (race trim is 432/386). At the track I was on 28" Mickey Thompson drag radials, which tend to slow the trap speed down a little over the 26" Nittos that I had on today (I figure it evens out the fact that the cutout was closed today).
PSM's bike is a 2007 GSX-R600 that is bone stock.
For all races I was by myself and had the windows up and t-tops on with about 1/2 a tank or less of gas.
We did 2 rolls starting at 40 mph with me in 2nd gear and him in first. Both races he waited for me to hit it and then went. Both races he instantly started pulling away hard. By the top of 4th gear I had slowed his pull, but he was still creeping. He probably had between 4 and 6 car lengths on me (it was far enough ahead that it was hard to judge actual lengths). More than far enough that it normally wouldn't be worth doing again since it was basically a massacre.
Next up we did a 40 mph start with both of us starting in 2nd gear. This time I jumped out almost exactly 1 car length before he started pulling back. At about 100 mph he passed me pretty hard and probably had 2-3 cars on me by the top of 4th gear.
Next we did the same 40 roll with me in second gear, but he started in 3rd gear. This time I jumped out bery hard. I don't remember how far (PSM can chime in if he remembers), but probably 2-3 cars. He started pulling back a bit and we had to stop the run before the top of 4th (maybe 110 mph), but I don't think he would have caught me before the top of 4th. He was definitely gaining though.
Lastly we did a 70 mph roll with me in 3rd gear and him in 2nd gear. This time it appeared that I was going to hang when we both hit it, but shortly after he started pulling good and was probably 3-4 car lengths ahead by the top of 4th.
Very fun runs, but it really puts the whole bike thing into perspective. I realize that the older carbed bikes were quite a bit slower, but the newer bikes are no joke. This was just a baby 600 and it would have been possible for him to toy with my 120 mph car and still put lengths on it at will.
At some point I will take a camera man and get some nice videos for visual reference. I will also try the nitrous at some point, but I honestly don't think that a 100 shot is going to put me near a win from a 40 mph start.
Once I have traction we will also do a 20 mph roll in 1st gear as that will put him below his powerband and I should jump out before he pulls back. We will do this race NA and on spray too, but I need new drag radials first.
Last edited by ScreaminRedZ; 05-11-2010 at 09:56 PM.
05-12-2010, 02:58 AM
#3
Staging Lane
Nice post: We've both been saying it for awhile= even 600's are quick as hell nowadays.
And if he goes -1/+3 on the gearing it will be a absolute beast up to 140mph or so. Friend of mine has a '05 636 that has that gearing and very very few 1000's can pull him below around 120mph. Hell, he makes my ZX14 work for it. Still amazes me when I think about how big a difference that gearing made on his bike.
And if he goes -1/+3 on the gearing it will be a absolute beast up to 140mph or so. Friend of mine has a '05 636 that has that gearing and very very few 1000's can pull him below around 120mph. Hell, he makes my ZX14 work for it. Still amazes me when I think about how big a difference that gearing made on his bike.
05-12-2010, 05:27 AM
#4
Even my old bike 01 CBR 600 F4i ran pretty hard. I ran low 11's @ 123-125 mph, the launch is the hardest thing on a bike, otherwise hold it wide open and bang them gears. A 10,000 rpm slip seemed to work real well for launching. I would always out launch the other newer 600's and them guys would always go blowing by me in the last 300 feet! Some 1000 cc bikes (Gsxr) will do 100 mph in 1st gear...
05-12-2010, 07:02 AM
#5
Thanks guys! I'm definitely not into racing bikes, but I know we wanted to see how fast PSM's new ride was and I've been itching to show people how fast these bikes really are.
At some point I'll get a couple runs in on video with my friend's 2003 600 (I think it's a Yamaha). It's not as fast as PSM's bike and the guy weighs like 220lbs, but even that bike smacks me around good on motor. On a 100 shot I'm able to beat him, but even then I'm playing catch up as he pulls out some in first gear (40 roll).
At some point I'll get a couple runs in on video with my friend's 2003 600 (I think it's a Yamaha). It's not as fast as PSM's bike and the guy weighs like 220lbs, but even that bike smacks me around good on motor. On a 100 shot I'm able to beat him, but even then I'm playing catch up as he pulls out some in first gear (40 roll).
05-12-2010, 09:04 AM
#6
On that race from 40 where I started in 3rd, you jumped out exactly 2 cars on me. I was coming back pretty hard at the very beginning of fourth where I let off, but I'm not sure I would have totally caught you by the top of fourth. I might have just creeped next to your bumper. They were definitely fun races. It's scary that this bike in bone stock form is that much faster than your 120mph trap car (and therefore that much faster than my Z28 was considering you ran that in mediocre air and I ran 121 in amazing air at a better track).
I really think a lot of the stories about people jumping out on bikes comes from riders who start in the wrong gear, sometimes intentionally, but often it's just the fact that many people don't like downshifting from 6th to 1st at 40-50mph. It's a big jump and if you're not used to big downshifts like that, it could probably scare the crap out of some people (especially if they don't rev match properly). Or if a rider underestimates a car, they would be likely not to put the effort into downshifting all the way at those speeds figuring they would just walk away anyways, then the car jumps out and the bike comes cranking back when it gets into its powerband.
The only chance most people have to jump out on a bike like this in first gear would be to go from 20mph or so. It's not a dig run but it's WAY below the 10,000 RPM powerband (down around 4,000 at 20mph), so the bike will lag bad off the hit, then crank out a second or two later when it hits 10,000. I'm curious to see how the runs go from 20mph when you get your tires. Even on motor you'll jump out pretty hard, then see how quick I come flying by. On nitrous is should be very interesting.
Yeah, I'll probably keep it stock for now. I have some 1/4 mile goals for it in bone stock form and since I'm new to it, it could take a while to hit them (10.9 @ 130 or better).
I'll give that 10,000 slip a shot. I haven't worked much on launching it yet, so that's going to be the next few months of practicing. I know with these bikes, it's ALL about the launch. I also didn't "powershift" it on those runs, although I bang them pretty quick. No point in powershifting until I have a close race, which could be SRZ on the spray (or a few other cars around here I know of).
The bike you're referring to is a 2003 Kawasaki ZX6R.
I really think a lot of the stories about people jumping out on bikes comes from riders who start in the wrong gear, sometimes intentionally, but often it's just the fact that many people don't like downshifting from 6th to 1st at 40-50mph. It's a big jump and if you're not used to big downshifts like that, it could probably scare the crap out of some people (especially if they don't rev match properly). Or if a rider underestimates a car, they would be likely not to put the effort into downshifting all the way at those speeds figuring they would just walk away anyways, then the car jumps out and the bike comes cranking back when it gets into its powerband.
The only chance most people have to jump out on a bike like this in first gear would be to go from 20mph or so. It's not a dig run but it's WAY below the 10,000 RPM powerband (down around 4,000 at 20mph), so the bike will lag bad off the hit, then crank out a second or two later when it hits 10,000. I'm curious to see how the runs go from 20mph when you get your tires. Even on motor you'll jump out pretty hard, then see how quick I come flying by. On nitrous is should be very interesting.
Nice post: We've both been saying it for awhile= even 600's are quick as hell nowadays.
And if he goes -1/+3 on the gearing it will be a absolute beast up to 140mph or so. Friend of mine has a '05 636 that has that gearing and very very few 1000's can pull him below around 120mph. Hell, he makes my ZX14 work for it. Still amazes me when I think about how big a difference that gearing made on his bike.
And if he goes -1/+3 on the gearing it will be a absolute beast up to 140mph or so. Friend of mine has a '05 636 that has that gearing and very very few 1000's can pull him below around 120mph. Hell, he makes my ZX14 work for it. Still amazes me when I think about how big a difference that gearing made on his bike.
Even my old bike 01 CBR 600 F4i ran pretty hard. I ran low 11's @ 123-125 mph, the launch is the hardest thing on a bike, otherwise hold it wide open and bang them gears. A 10,000 rpm slip seemed to work real well for launching. I would always out launch the other newer 600's and them guys would always go blowing by me in the last 300 feet! Some 1000 cc bikes (Gsxr) will do 100 mph in 1st gear...
Thanks guys! I'm definitely not into racing bikes, but I know we wanted to see how fast PSM's new ride was and I've been itching to show people how fast these bikes really are.
At some point I'll get a couple runs in on video with my friend's 2003 600 (I think it's a Yamaha). It's not as fast as PSM's bike and the guy weighs like 220lbs, but even that bike smacks me around good on motor. On a 100 shot I'm able to beat him, but even then I'm playing catch up as he pulls out some in first gear (40 roll).
At some point I'll get a couple runs in on video with my friend's 2003 600 (I think it's a Yamaha). It's not as fast as PSM's bike and the guy weighs like 220lbs, but even that bike smacks me around good on motor. On a 100 shot I'm able to beat him, but even then I'm playing catch up as he pulls out some in first gear (40 roll).
Last edited by PewterScreaminMach; 05-12-2010 at 09:16 AM.
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05-12-2010, 04:39 PM
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Nice post: We've both been saying it for awhile= even 600's are quick as hell nowadays.
And if he goes -1/+3 on the gearing it will be a absolute beast up to 140mph or so. Friend of mine has a '05 636 that has that gearing and very very few 1000's can pull him below around 120mph. Hell, he makes my ZX14 work for it. Still amazes me when I think about how big a difference that gearing made on his bike.
And if he goes -1/+3 on the gearing it will be a absolute beast up to 140mph or so. Friend of mine has a '05 636 that has that gearing and very very few 1000's can pull him below around 120mph. Hell, he makes my ZX14 work for it. Still amazes me when I think about how big a difference that gearing made on his bike.
Or -2, +4
A 100 shot probably will put the two of you close but i dont think itll be quite enough. The rider makes all the difference on a bike. Hell, ive ridden some of my friend's 600's and beaten 1000's simply because they didnt have the ***** to put it in the right gear/couldnt keep the front down, etc.
I have a TNT F2 kit on the way but wont be putting it on until the end of the month becuase im doing intake/tb at the same time. Ill be running a 200 shot and will race my friend's 05 GSXR 750 and get it on film.
If you can get traction and can launch hard (its a lot easier in a stalled auto) id say going from a dig is your best bet. Its hard to launch a bike. Most people baby-launch it or just ride it out of the hole and thats not nearly enough to keep up with a 120mph+ car that can rip it out of the hole. Just some food for thought.
05-12-2010, 07:49 PM
#9
Staging Lane
I really think a lot of the stories about people jumping out on bikes comes from riders who start in the wrong gear, sometimes intentionally, but often it's just the fact that many people don't like downshifting from 6th to 1st at 40-50mph. It's a big jump and if you're not used to big downshifts like that, it could probably scare the crap out of some people (especially if they don't rev match properly). Or if a rider underestimates a car, they would be likely not to put the effort into downshifting all the way at those speeds figuring they would just walk away anyways, then the car jumps out and the bike comes cranking back when it gets into its powerband.
If you can get traction and can launch hard (its a lot easier in a stalled auto) I'd say going from a dig is your best bet. Its hard to launch a bike. Most people baby-launch it or just ride it out of the hole and thats not nearly enough to keep up with a 120mph+ car that can rip it out of the hole. Just some food for thought.
Cruisers, small displacement bikes, and enduro type bikes are the exception: an average rider can launch them at or near there optimum possible capabilities due to there power coming on at a lower rpm, and less overall power period. And cruisers (including and especially Harley's) can launch REALLY hard with minimaly experienced riders. Low center of gravity combined with long wheelbase's and very high lowend torque numbers make them easy to launch: the worst that can happen is they spin there tire like a car, wheelie's aint gonna happen on them.
Just be wary of any Hyabusa, ZX14, and any lowered or especially stretched sport bike. 'busas and 14's are factory stretched with great bottom end torque and are relatively easy to launch even for intermediate riders. --- But then again, if you are racing any of the above with a 11+ second street car you deserve the whooping that is about to commence...
You two guys seem to really understand motorcycles and the pro's and con's surrounding there use in racing. It's really refreshing to come across guys like you on a car forum... it sure as f**k isn't the norm! I'm tipping a beer bottle in salute to you guys right now.
05-12-2010, 08:27 PM
#10
I've also beaten bigger bikes on my 600. Smoked a friend who had a hayabusa at the track 3 times in a row. He was terrible, his 1st bike ever and he was around a 400lb rider. So funny. PSM why don't you take your bike to the track to see what it will do?
05-12-2010, 09:19 PM
#11
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Truths #1 and #2 concerning the VAST MAJORITY of street bike riders.
Truth #3.
Cruisers, small displacement bikes, and enduro type bikes are the exception: an average rider can launch them at or near there optimum possible capabilities due to there power coming on at a lower rpm, and less overall power period. And cruisers (including and especially Harley's) can launch REALLY hard with minimaly experienced riders. Low center of gravity combined with long wheelbase's and very high lowend torque numbers make them easy to launch: the worst that can happen is they spin there tire like a car, wheelie's aint gonna happen on them.
Just be wary of any Hyabusa, ZX14, and any lowered or especially stretched sport bike. 'busas and 14's are factory stretched with great bottom end torque and are relatively easy to launch even for intermediate riders. --- But then again, if you are racing any of the above with a 11+ second street car you deserve the whooping that is about to commence...
You two guys seem to really understand motorcycles and the pro's and con's surrounding there use in racing. It's really refreshing to come across guys like you on a car forum... it sure as f**k isn't the norm! I'm tipping a beer bottle in salute to you guys right now.
Truth #3.
Cruisers, small displacement bikes, and enduro type bikes are the exception: an average rider can launch them at or near there optimum possible capabilities due to there power coming on at a lower rpm, and less overall power period. And cruisers (including and especially Harley's) can launch REALLY hard with minimaly experienced riders. Low center of gravity combined with long wheelbase's and very high lowend torque numbers make them easy to launch: the worst that can happen is they spin there tire like a car, wheelie's aint gonna happen on them.
Just be wary of any Hyabusa, ZX14, and any lowered or especially stretched sport bike. 'busas and 14's are factory stretched with great bottom end torque and are relatively easy to launch even for intermediate riders. --- But then again, if you are racing any of the above with a 11+ second street car you deserve the whooping that is about to commence...
You two guys seem to really understand motorcycles and the pro's and con's surrounding there use in racing. It's really refreshing to come across guys like you on a car forum... it sure as f**k isn't the norm! I'm tipping a beer bottle in salute to you guys right now.
Im actually drinking a Joose right now (ghetto 10% tall boy) and reading a bit on here. You are definitely correct. Busas and 14's longer wheelbase and added weight make them a great platform for a dragbike, which is why thats so commonly seen. It was awesome the first time i got into the 9's with my bike on a 750 with stock wheelbase. 
05-13-2010, 01:49 PM
#12
I plan on it later this year. I've gotta get a full leather suit before I can go, though, otherwise I'd head up there soon. Cheapest one I'm seeing is over $500 and most are $700-$900, so I'm thinking early Fall I'll be able to go, hopefully.
Last edited by PewterScreaminMach; 05-13-2010 at 01:55 PM.
05-13-2010, 02:42 PM
#13
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how much does your car weigh??? I've taken out a couple cruisers and lookin at racing a newer R6 later this summer. We probably have roughly the same hp/tq but i got a gutted tin can 
That's the only reason I always think i can keep up with one, i'm down at vette weight.
That's the only reason I always think i can keep up with one, i'm down at vette weight.
05-13-2010, 04:48 PM
#14
3420 without me in it and about 3/4 tank of gas. Race weight was 3600. In my opinion it's going to take more than a couple hundred pounds of weight reduction to pull off the win in the same 40 mph race. I'm sure a 100 shot would provide more gains than the weight reduction and I don't see that giving me a win. Just my thoughts though.
05-13-2010, 08:47 PM
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understandable thanks for your insight. I am hoping the weight reduction will keep me closer but i understand where your comming from and if it was like 7 lengths on the first run doesn't look good haha.
05-13-2010, 10:24 PM
#16
Staging Lane
05-14-2010, 07:36 AM
#17
No problem, man. Your best bet will be to either go from higher or to go from very low so he's out of his powerband. As long as it's just for fun then it won't matter either way and you can go from a few different starting points just to see what happenes.
05-14-2010, 03:13 PM
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Ok, i know this was a noob move, but i went to Zmax and got a 9 second pass on my GSXR and did not have full leathers. I had an Alpinestars RC1 leather jacket with full armor and a race hump, Alpinestars gloves, Arai helmet, riding boots and a pair of jeans. lol
I ended up getting an Alpinestars full leather two piece later, but they never said a word to me.
I ended up getting an Alpinestars full leather two piece later, but they never said a word to me.
