So, I didn't get raped by the 2010 SS....
12-28-2011, 05:34 PM
#41
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Nice car/truck Diet. I figured you dd'ed somethin like that. Now after calling these guys cars slow and thinking a c6 Z06 is slow you should sell your Camaro and be forever condemed to drive that catruck you got.
12-28-2011, 08:10 PM
#43
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@ Arctic.......2 vids 45-125ish and 55 to 120ish
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMJOb2t49l0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVSrO81gHEw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMJOb2t49l0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVSrO81gHEw
12-28-2011, 09:12 PM
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12-28-2011, 09:37 PM
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I'd basically give ya the 400 lb part, but 100+ more rwhp, stock to stock? Not on THIS planet! That would require the 5th gen to put down OVER 430rwhp and you'll be lucky to see one approach 400rwhp when completely stock. None will see 430 or anything close, but we know of more than a handful of 4th gens seeing 300ish.
Make it easy though and figure the 4th gen at 300 even... Do ya really think the LS3 is dropping 400 to the dirt? ? ?
That's something often lost in todays conversations. Many, perhaps most current 4th gen owners are young enough they simply don't know how much of a TERROR people thought the 4th gen was when it hit the streets in late 1997.
A little perspective... You'd have needed AT LEAST a new Corvette to outrun a brand new Z/28 in 1998(and that often wasn't enough). That is, a new 'vette or something modified to comparable status. Most cars couldn't even BEGIN to outrun a Corvette... Nobody with a new 1998 Z/28 was concerned about a new stock Mustang GT, a model long considered a high bar in drag racing. Nobody with the Z was concerned about a stock 300ZX, RX-7 or Supra either... Sure, those would cruise, but the LS1 4th gen was NOBODY'S fool, stock to stock. If you weren't running better than 12.90's, you'd have better brought your "A-game" to that race!
So when the 5th gen came out and showed us similar times, many were less than impressed. We immediately complained about its weight, but most of us hadn't yet taken note of other problems, like the MASSIVE rear brakes, preventing a quick and cheap wheel swap for better traction. We hadn't noticed how difficult it would be to get it to the weight we'd prefer either, while keeping it "normal" in the process. We weren't tuned in to what, if any, problems we'd encounter with traction or outward vision... We just saw HEAVY... Heavy and all, it will lay waste to a stock 4th gen on nearly any track.
Bottom line is, the 5th gen is more car than a 4th in essentially every facet. To think the LS1 is simply better than the LS3 OR L99, however, since it seems to keep up in a straight line, is a fat mistake. It's not as good, let alone better. They may seem "weak" to many for whatever reason, but they've got potential... They're called "upgraded" for a reason.
Make it easy though and figure the 4th gen at 300 even... Do ya really think the LS3 is dropping 400 to the dirt? ? ?
That's something often lost in todays conversations. Many, perhaps most current 4th gen owners are young enough they simply don't know how much of a TERROR people thought the 4th gen was when it hit the streets in late 1997.
A little perspective... You'd have needed AT LEAST a new Corvette to outrun a brand new Z/28 in 1998(and that often wasn't enough). That is, a new 'vette or something modified to comparable status. Most cars couldn't even BEGIN to outrun a Corvette... Nobody with a new 1998 Z/28 was concerned about a new stock Mustang GT, a model long considered a high bar in drag racing. Nobody with the Z was concerned about a stock 300ZX, RX-7 or Supra either... Sure, those would cruise, but the LS1 4th gen was NOBODY'S fool, stock to stock. If you weren't running better than 12.90's, you'd have better brought your "A-game" to that race!
So when the 5th gen came out and showed us similar times, many were less than impressed. We immediately complained about its weight, but most of us hadn't yet taken note of other problems, like the MASSIVE rear brakes, preventing a quick and cheap wheel swap for better traction. We hadn't noticed how difficult it would be to get it to the weight we'd prefer either, while keeping it "normal" in the process. We weren't tuned in to what, if any, problems we'd encounter with traction or outward vision... We just saw HEAVY... Heavy and all, it will lay waste to a stock 4th gen on nearly any track.
Bottom line is, the 5th gen is more car than a 4th in essentially every facet. To think the LS1 is simply better than the LS3 OR L99, however, since it seems to keep up in a straight line, is a fat mistake. It's not as good, let alone better. They may seem "weak" to many for whatever reason, but they've got potential... They're called "upgraded" for a reason.
12-28-2011, 11:01 PM
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12-28-2011, 11:12 PM
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Does not match my memory of street and drag racing in 80's and 90's. Most serious guys were running 1st and some 2nd gen stuff, my 68 Z28 ran 12.2's with a 9" slick. That crowd had zero respect or even like for the 4th gen and the 3rd gen was just starting to get props. Just my area I suppose.
The pont is, when the LS1 hit the streets, your standard fare version of basically any car was TOAST instantaneously. Most older F-bodies could be worked and reworked to run as well, but that was a requirement as opposed to a recommendation if the goal was to keep up with even a factory stock '98. Or a power adder could be employed. Once the tune was figured out, buhbye... you'd be hardpressed to find any GM engine short of a big block to run like the LS1, let alone newer and better versions. Sure, it could be done, but for every battle there's a price to pay...
12-29-2011, 12:05 AM
#50
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http://youtu.be/JGt3ppHeae4 not that far off, 3rd doesnt pull hard enough tho
12-29-2011, 12:28 AM
#51
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IT'LL RUN...never heard anyone put racing in a better perspective, you hit the nail right on the head...i too thought that when i bought a '79 trans-am it would be fast, but soon found out that it wasn't as quick as i would have liked...overweight and all...though some '79 W-72's were clocked at 14.72 which i guess for the time era wasn't slow...quicker then the competition a '79 L-82 'vette...and after owning so damn many f-body's i thought that my LT1 was reasonable quick until i took out a '98 Z28...hated, hated giving that car back...
and you're also correct about how the late '97's hit the streets...i heard it from everyone i knew about how powerful they were...
RHINO 79 you're car pulls really good, and sounds good as well...i don't see any drop off anywhere in acceleration...i sat in a new SS, then in a new 'vette and liked the SS more, much more....i guess i just love f-bodys...
and you're also correct about how the late '97's hit the streets...i heard it from everyone i knew about how powerful they were...
RHINO 79 you're car pulls really good, and sounds good as well...i don't see any drop off anywhere in acceleration...i sat in a new SS, then in a new 'vette and liked the SS more, much more....i guess i just love f-bodys...
12-29-2011, 12:34 AM
#52
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SEPSIS...nothing to losing to a modded car...his being 11 years newer and not stock and yours being stock, hell i think you did really well...great looking car as well...now start those mods...lololol...
12-29-2011, 01:30 AM
#54
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manual
300rwhp + 3500lbs = 11.6lbs/hp 4th gen
360rwhp + 3850lbs = 10.7lbs/hp 5th gen
auto
285rwhp + 3500lbs = 12.28lbs/hp 4th gen
320rwhp + 3950lbs = 12.34lbs/hp 5th gen, but they have an extra gear. that helps with acceleration.
5th gen has 9% better power to weight. 5th gen is a lil faster and built better. When i sit in a 4th gen now it feels like sitting in a 3rd gen just a couple years ago. The 5th gen is buit much better.
300rwhp + 3500lbs = 11.6lbs/hp 4th gen
360rwhp + 3850lbs = 10.7lbs/hp 5th gen
auto
285rwhp + 3500lbs = 12.28lbs/hp 4th gen
320rwhp + 3950lbs = 12.34lbs/hp 5th gen, but they have an extra gear. that helps with acceleration.
5th gen has 9% better power to weight. 5th gen is a lil faster and built better. When i sit in a 4th gen now it feels like sitting in a 3rd gen just a couple years ago. The 5th gen is buit much better.
Last edited by MauriSSio; 12-29-2011 at 02:46 PM.
12-29-2011, 01:40 AM
#55
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yea, mine falls on its face when it hits 3rd, i think with a tune it would pick up a lot, but the converter is the main thing i want to do.
12-29-2011, 09:36 AM
#57
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There have been several stock 5th gens run 12.5 to 12.8 like the 4th gens, that is not the norm but isn't unusual either.
I want to get these 20' s off and put some 18" RTS wheels on, that should be worth a couple tenths there.
I want to get these 20' s off and put some 18" RTS wheels on, that should be worth a couple tenths there.
12-29-2011, 01:25 PM
#58
It could only match 98 and 99, of those years... Taking into consideration we're talking about the LS1 Camaro of 98-on. Of course nobody was using them in the 80's... After all, GM hadn't invented them yet. I had 3 2nd gens to toy with and ALL 3 were seriously slow. Didn't really and truly know it at the time, though my dad had a totally smoke me and my friends '68 bird. He rarely took it out to play. 2nds, like the current SS, were abundantly overweight after the early 70's and even then as compared to what they replaced.
The pont is, when the LS1 hit the streets, your standard fare version of basically any car was TOAST instantaneously. Most older F-bodies could be worked and reworked to run as well, but that was a requirement as opposed to a recommendation if the goal was to keep up with even a factory stock '98. Or a power adder could be employed. Once the tune was figured out, buhbye... you'd be hardpressed to find any GM engine short of a big block to run like the LS1, let alone newer and better versions. Sure, it could be done, but for every battle there's a price to pay...
The pont is, when the LS1 hit the streets, your standard fare version of basically any car was TOAST instantaneously. Most older F-bodies could be worked and reworked to run as well, but that was a requirement as opposed to a recommendation if the goal was to keep up with even a factory stock '98. Or a power adder could be employed. Once the tune was figured out, buhbye... you'd be hardpressed to find any GM engine short of a big block to run like the LS1, let alone newer and better versions. Sure, it could be done, but for every battle there's a price to pay...
Great post!!! I remember when they came out and were running low 13s with temp tags. Us guys with heads,cam 5.0s and bolt on LT1s were in big big trouble. Yes they rattled etc like the 3rd gens and LT1s but they ran fast and nothing for the money could touch 4th gen. A lot of Supra owners could not swallow an Fbody was faster than them stock stock and that car at the time was top dog stock non exotic. Hell a lot c5 guys were not happy either
12-29-2011, 02:42 PM
#59
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the 5th gens run the same times but at about 2mph faster. The solid axle and lower weight help the lower powered f-body.
12-29-2011, 04:50 PM
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Funny as time goes by the walk too school was longer and cars were faster. A 5th gen with equal drivers/equal conditions will edge out a 4th by 3-5 tenths easy. The 4th's I drove stock went 106-107 with a M6 and my 5th stock runs 110 to over 111 at the same track with less the 1k miles to boot, still tight.