Ju1ce

No, I'm specifically talking about roots superchargers.

You can make huge power on centri/turbo even twin screws on high boost levels. Roots blowers hate high boost levels. The delta temps get hot enough to melt things and the power required to drive them skyrockets. They need to be run at relatively low boost pressures.

punishmentcycle

iTrader: (6)

+1



that tvs2800 is good for about 850 whp all day. now ur short block isnt gonna take that but if u forge it and jack the boost way up the skys the limit. that blower is plenty, so i dont know why you would change it. heads are not a bad idea if u have the cash but turning the boost up is what i would do.

and just because its a 5th gen doesnt mean u can spin that blower to 18+ psi.( with all supporting mods of course)

willizm

iTrader: (10)

This, far greater bang for the buck than going with heads on your current setup.

willizm

iTrader: (10)

We that I can understand about roots, but what about centri's? Do heads make as much of a difference like the roots or is it similar to the characteristics of turbo's?

2SSARME

Because no one has been able to spin it past 16-17psi on a 5th gen yet.

The TVS requires certain upgrades. I believe the HIGH BOOST tvs2300 on a 5th gen was Jaime's over on camaro5 and he was boosting I believe 17psi on a 413 stroked l99.

It really ISN'T enough blower. I believe jaime at 17 psi was seeing like 780-800rwhp or something around that. The TVS really FACEPLANTS at higher rpms. It has great torque but it really isn't a high hp monster that people seem to think it is. It's just too damn small.

punishmentcycle

iTrader: (6)

any FI set up will benifit from better flowing heads period. your able to flow a better amout of air in and out of the motor making it more efficient. boost in just a measure of restriction..so when u change the heads the boost will drop but the power will increase.

topher3134

what we have here is a failure to communicate. All I see are very general supercharger and turbo statements. If you have giant turbos with the ability to produce extra boost that is pushed out with a bov then that is different from turbos that spool up quick but reach maximum flow at lower engine rpm. Superchargers provide boost from very low rpm and stay consistant through most of the rpm range.

Depending on the application some of the tvs1900 ran out of flow for the rotors. Now most 6.2l will never run out of flow with a tvs2300 and a cog drive pully change. When you speak heads there are a lot of thinks to think about. Restriction is what causes boost levels. If the restriction was 0(which is impossible) there would be no boost. So we established that boost levels could be lower in a more efficient head and still flow the same. Just have less restriction in the heads.

Now you have to think about all those dual stage turbos in trucks. Why? Well the little and big turbo feed into each other to limit the lag from spool up time on a turbo. I bet the super duper captain caveman regal also brake boosts so he can get a good run from a roll. I know when I had a speed3 that if you did that you could cut huge amounts from ur roll times. He doesn't start from a stand still because he can't hold the car at the line brake boost and not destroy something. Got to give the jackass some props for making a pos regal fast. Anyway I thought these came with superchargers?

I see lots of posts between when I started and it posted sorry for the repeats

punishmentcycle

iTrader: (6)

that might be due to the manifold used for the 5th gen kit. the blower itself is plenty big,the manifold if it short and shallow with cause heat..heat in turn is the roots enemy. if you can get a bigger mani under it itll make plenty of power..

Ju1ce

Heads make a big difference for all power adders. I'm just saying that on a roots setup sometimes there's nothing else you can do but get a nice set of heads to make power.

If you have a cammed engine pushing 15psi on a roots blower and you wanna make more power with that blower it's not as easy as 'cranking the boost'. You crank the boost and it's probably going to blow up. If you've exhausted all other avenues (better intercooler, race gas/e85/nitrous whatever) pretty much your only option is to get heads and then pulley down to get back to 15psi because the heads will drop the pressure.

topher3134

Also there are guys making 900 rwhp on tvs2300 but its not on an ls3. Usually some sort of lsx iron block. But they have all sorts of money into the setup. Sometimes as much as the car is worth

8ty8 LS1

iTrader: (3)

i don't understand how the engine will have an "easier" time spinning a roots style blower when the main mechanical resistance (the blower) is still there.

punishmentcycle

iTrader: (6)

see this is much better on a tech forum, people actually talking about mods and learning somthing about how this or that works... all the pot shots at people and talking trash is real highschool. cheers everyone

willizm

iTrader: (10)

I know that, but the question is how cylinder heads differ between different forms of FI(superchargers vs turbo and now centri vs roots). I don't think anyone in here doubts that better flowing heads result in more power on an FI setup. My argument is that nifty cylinder heads are not the end all be all for how to make more power on 2ss's setup. He'd benefit far more from spending that same money on his bottom end and pushing more boost than he would buying fancy heads.

Ju1ce

If you add heads the boost pressure will drop. If the boost pressure is lower it's easier for the engine to turn the blower.

2SSARME

True. But even with a mani upgrade, tvs plate upgrades etc he could only get 17psi out of it on his stroker.

He has EVERY SINGLE available tvs2300 upgrade on his tvs2300 apart from obvious belt/cog upgrades:

Phenolic Spacer for Magnacharger Supercharger
Ported Magnacharger Tub for Maximum Airflow
102mm Supercharger Inlet
102mm Nick Williams Throttle Body


I'm telling you man. The TVS is a REAL pain in the ***. The fastest tvs 5th gen runs high 9s on single power adder. This is why I am going to throw a shot in. Much easier to throw a shot than have to fight for upgrades on the tvs.

12psi+150 shot should be enough for low-mid 9s all day if I don't break anything and can hook.

8ty8 LS1

iTrader: (3)

i would assume the extra cubes would help too!

2SSARME

I think most of us on here secretly respect one another and when information is needed even hated people will have a civil discussion.

8ty8 LS1

iTrader: (3)

gotcha, yeah i should have thought of that. doh!

8ty8 LS1

iTrader: (3)

this. now you all can **** off.

willizm

iTrader: (10)

I agree, at that point you are only as good as the weakest link in the chain as you exhausted all other points of weakness in the setup. In 2ss's setup he isn't at that point yet and you can probably agree there are at least 10 other things that he'd see better return on investment over than swapping heads as they are pricy to say the least

I haven't thrown any pot shots at anyone about this subject. I'm just asking questions and respecting the answers that are given while contributing.