Lt-1 Vs. Ls-what?
03-06-2005, 12:33 PM
#61
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Originally Posted by jaredwayt
there you go metal beast, its not that hard to forget, bte i have a old motor trend sitting right in front of my face that dynoed 274.6 rwhp on a m6 Z28, so thats that enough said that is saying though my ramair intake 3" y-pipe and slp TOL make me loose a good 25 rwhp?thats odd.granted this number may be rare, but very possible none the less, so lets try and put 2 and 2 togther, a car with 275 plus rwhp and a good drivrer vs. an auto with 280 rwhp at a much higher rpm, yea, your right totally impossible......damb
Time out. I am just defending the LT1. The story still seems a bit far fetched. Your SLP factory "mods" really don't equate to much. I have yet to see an SS or WS6 LT1 dyno more than a Z28 or TA. I am looking at Chevy HP February 2005 issue in which they baselined a bone stock 95 TA and a Bone Stock 00 TA in their STS Turbo article (both M6s). 273/302 vs 311/325 (guess that disspells the LT1 has more torque myth too
). Impressive numbers but 38 RWHP is 38 RWHP. An auto will loose some HP for sure but considering the one you raced had a minium of a Catback it negates the arguement. Another thing was you raced an 02 M6 with CB and Lid right? Most 02 M6s put down 310 RWHP bone stock. My buddy Nick has an 02 SS with the some mods you mentioned on the LS1s and he put down 336 RWHP. Believe me you would not have hung with the 02 like you said. 
03-06-2005, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Skarecrow
You seem to be implying that because the LS1 hp and tq peaks are higher, that it doesn't have anything under the curve to compare to an LT1... yeah, ok. 
Last dyno graph I saw of a stock SS LS1 showed torque over 300 ft/lbs (to the wheels mind you) by 2500rpm and it stayed above 300 until about 5000-5500. The LS1 peaks higher because it makes all of the power of the LT1 at low rpm and then doesn't fall off at higher rpm. 
BTW, if you are really running 13.3-13.4 stone cold stock (which seems to keep changing), then you are running one of the fastest stock LT1s I've ever seen. Most I've seen are in the 13.8-14.2 area. It's like the 12.9 SS and WS6 LS1 cars, they exist for sure, but I've personally never seen one. If you can show off a 13.3 timeslip, then I'll accept that maybe you beat an LS1 on a trip to 100mph... but carlengths by 140? Ram air or not, that LS1 pulls like a beast above 100mph for a N/A engine.
Last dyno graph I saw of a stock SS LS1 showed torque over 300 ft/lbs (to the wheels mind you) by 2500rpm and it stayed above 300 until about 5000-5500. The LS1 peaks higher because it makes all of the power of the LT1 at low rpm and then doesn't fall off at higher rpm. BTW, if you are really running 13.3-13.4 stone cold stock (which seems to keep changing), then you are running one of the fastest stock LT1s I've ever seen. Most I've seen are in the 13.8-14.2 area. It's like the 12.9 SS and WS6 LS1 cars, they exist for sure, but I've personally never seen one. If you can show off a 13.3 timeslip, then I'll accept that maybe you beat an LS1 on a trip to 100mph... but carlengths by 140? Ram air or not, that LS1 pulls like a beast above 100mph for a N/A engine.
03-06-2005, 12:46 PM
#63
Well, I'll throw my .02 in here. I think anything "can" happen on the street. Example: my buddy raced an A4 LS1 TA last fall in his 87 Iroc auto with 4.10s, flowmaster, and K&N filter. He beat this guy in the 1/8th several times. BTW the Iroc has ran a best 1/8th ET of 9.33 The TA driver couldn't drive for ****. He would start catching towards the end but the gap was too large to overcome. I was sooo pissed that the LS1 was so misrepresented that night. Had I been there I would have begged the dude to let me drive it so I could mop his *** up like I did in my car.
I told my buddy good job, but you didn't beat the car, you beat the driver. So given equal drivers I would have to jump on the bandwagon and call BS, but if this dude sucked as bad as the fella that raced the almighty Iroc, and you can bang gears, then it could have happened.
The TA driver couldn't drive for ****. He would start catching towards the end but the gap was too large to overcome. I was sooo pissed that the LS1 was so misrepresented that night. Had I been there I would have begged the dude to let me drive it so I could mop his *** up like I did in my car.I told my buddy good job, but you didn't beat the car, you beat the driver. So given equal drivers I would have to jump on the bandwagon and call BS, but if this dude sucked as bad as the fella that raced the almighty Iroc, and you can bang gears, then it could have happened.
03-06-2005, 01:26 PM
#64
Originally Posted by BriancWS6
Well, I'll throw my .02 in here. I think anything "can" happen on the street. Example: my buddy raced an A4 LS1 TA last fall in his 87 Iroc auto with 4.10s, flowmaster, and K&N filter. He beat this guy in the 1/8th several times. BTW the Iroc has ran a best 1/8th ET of 9.33 The TA driver couldn't drive for ****. He would start catching towards the end but the gap was too large to overcome. I was sooo pissed that the LS1 was so misrepresented that night. Had I been there I would have begged the dude to let me drive it so I could mop his *** up like I did in my car.
I told my buddy good job, but you didn't beat the car, you beat the driver. So given equal drivers I would have to jump on the bandwagon and call BS, but if this dude sucked as bad as the fella that raced the almighty Iroc, and you can bang gears, then it could have happened.
The TA driver couldn't drive for ****. He would start catching towards the end but the gap was too large to overcome. I was sooo pissed that the LS1 was so misrepresented that night. Had I been there I would have begged the dude to let me drive it so I could mop his *** up like I did in my car.I told my buddy good job, but you didn't beat the car, you beat the driver. So given equal drivers I would have to jump on the bandwagon and call BS, but if this dude sucked as bad as the fella that raced the almighty Iroc, and you can bang gears, then it could have happened.
But thats the whole point he says he beat it from a roll. So now throw driver error out as it was an A4 so now its just stab and steer. I had a 96 Z28 and it ran 13.8 @ 100 mph when it was stock. It went 13.49 with 3.73s and a small cam. I traded it on an 01 WS6 that would have raped the dogshit out of it on its best day, it went a best of 12.82 @ 110 mph with a lid and cut out. My LT1 put down 255 rwhp and 278 rwtq which was about the norm. My WS6 put down 327 rwhp and 342 rwtq which I dont know if its the norm or not, maybe a little high. Anyway stock LT1s will not run with LS1s unless something is wrong, especially from a roll where LS1s are stronger anyway.
03-06-2005, 01:54 PM
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I believe this all could have been avoided if the 8URLS1 was left out of his sig!
Something about coming on a LSwhat website and claiming A$$ WHOOPINs have been handed out by any other motor, other than a LS1/6 is just asking for trouble
But hey thats just my opinion
Something about coming on a LSwhat website and claiming A$$ WHOOPINs have been handed out by any other motor, other than a LS1/6 is just asking for trouble
But hey thats just my opinion
03-06-2005, 02:51 PM
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well accually 8urls1 was a bad car, and turst me it ate plenty, but its gone now, i just throw that in ther b/c alot of people know me by that name, and i didnt claim an *** whoopin' but i beat him, and on the 02 ws6 i said he put a car on me at the top of third going into 4 and traffic stopped us, im positive he would of walked me hard but his t/a and the auto are 2 completely diffrent cars.and its not that the lt's make more torque, it is that what you might not be understanding is that the lt1 will GENERALLY make more torque sooner than the ls1, so like i said if i ran from a 1st gear roll at 2800-3000 rpm, ill have the torque advantage, plus gear advantage also againt the a4.
03-06-2005, 06:06 PM
#67
.
zzzzzz .... why is this still going?
So yeah, you were in 1st gear at 2800-3000 rpms .... what is that like 10-12mph?
The LS1 would've dropped into first, hooked right away and taken off like a bat out of hell, while you (admittedly) spun your "bald-***" tires. You would be behind by a decent amount after a second or two, and there is no way in hell your coming from at least one car length down at 30ish mph, to pulling 2-3 cars on him by 120-130.
You keep making the arguement that "oh but I have a manual and he has an auto, so he has less power" .... this is retarded. Stock for stock the m6 will run only slightly better times than A4, definately not anywhere near a gap that would allow a car with 40 less rwhp to walk it like your describing. Sorry, but the lack of real car knowledge combined with the bench racing and the silly attitude = getting annoying.
Like was said before ....
a. nobody posted the race on any websites.
b. you have contradicted yourself a handful of times now.
c. you cannot find these people and have a re-run, or at least have them post?
d. you have NO physical information such as timesheets or a dyno sheet to back up your ridiculous claims on how your stock SS dyno's in excess of 275rwhp, and will run 13.4-13.5 second quarters ... you just made it up, and reference it like it is fact. I would personally guarantee that you could not break a 13.5 second quarter, nor could you dyno 275+ rwhp.
e. Many people here have owned LT1's, have raced LT1's, or have at least ridden in an LT1 .... as 100% of the accounts here have told us, including the guys with the LT1's ... in the situation you posted, you would get ***-raped by it, no questions, end of story.
If you want us to get into the fact that you also claim to have hung with a Intake/exhaust m6 WS6, we can discuss that next if you'd like?
.
zzzzzz .... why is this still going?
So yeah, you were in 1st gear at 2800-3000 rpms .... what is that like 10-12mph?
The LS1 would've dropped into first, hooked right away and taken off like a bat out of hell, while you (admittedly) spun your "bald-***" tires. You would be behind by a decent amount after a second or two, and there is no way in hell your coming from at least one car length down at 30ish mph, to pulling 2-3 cars on him by 120-130.
You keep making the arguement that "oh but I have a manual and he has an auto, so he has less power" .... this is retarded. Stock for stock the m6 will run only slightly better times than A4, definately not anywhere near a gap that would allow a car with 40 less rwhp to walk it like your describing. Sorry, but the lack of real car knowledge combined with the bench racing and the silly attitude = getting annoying.
Like was said before ....
a. nobody posted the race on any websites.
b. you have contradicted yourself a handful of times now.
c. you cannot find these people and have a re-run, or at least have them post?
d. you have NO physical information such as timesheets or a dyno sheet to back up your ridiculous claims on how your stock SS dyno's in excess of 275rwhp, and will run 13.4-13.5 second quarters ... you just made it up, and reference it like it is fact. I would personally guarantee that you could not break a 13.5 second quarter, nor could you dyno 275+ rwhp.
e. Many people here have owned LT1's, have raced LT1's, or have at least ridden in an LT1 .... as 100% of the accounts here have told us, including the guys with the LT1's ... in the situation you posted, you would get ***-raped by it, no questions, end of story.
If you want us to get into the fact that you also claim to have hung with a Intake/exhaust m6 WS6, we can discuss that next if you'd like?
.
03-06-2005, 08:17 PM
#68
LMAO on how certain this guy is his LT1 would dyno at 275 because it was rated at 310. 
I've never seen an LT1 dyno that high..although I wouldn't discount it completly. I would say 260 is a more average "high" number for an LT1.
I think this story would have been at least more believable if the LT1 pulled down low..but on top-end? That is a little harder to fathom.
I've never seen an LT1 dyno that high..although I wouldn't discount it completly. I would say 260 is a more average "high" number for an LT1.
I think this story would have been at least more believable if the LT1 pulled down low..but on top-end? That is a little harder to fathom.
Last edited by Gloveperson; 03-06-2005 at 11:10 PM.
03-06-2005, 10:08 PM
#69
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a. i have not contradicted myself once, just trying to explain myself b/c you obvisouly dont understand.
b.i just bought new ties, so im gonna go race them again just for you, then im gonna bring them over to my house , make them register and post just for you.
c. i dont need physcial evidence, my car beat an ls1, thats all the evidence i need.
d.im not insecure about my car, i know what it can and cant do, chances are i wont beat a 02 ws6 with bolt-ons, hopefully not with a stock lt1, so why dont you stop "talking smank", stop fondeling yourself, and turn off REVENGE OF THE NERDS 3, and recognize that my lt1 beat an ls1.
b.i just bought new ties, so im gonna go race them again just for you, then im gonna bring them over to my house , make them register and post just for you.
c. i dont need physcial evidence, my car beat an ls1, thats all the evidence i need.
d.im not insecure about my car, i know what it can and cant do, chances are i wont beat a 02 ws6 with bolt-ons, hopefully not with a stock lt1, so why dont you stop "talking smank", stop fondeling yourself, and turn off REVENGE OF THE NERDS 3, and recognize that my lt1 beat an ls1.
03-06-2005, 10:59 PM
#70
Originally Posted by jaredwayt
a. i have not contradicted myself once, just trying to explain myself b/c you obvisouly dont understand.
Originally Posted by jaredwayt
b.i just bought new ties, so im gonna go race them again just for you, then im gonna bring them over to my house , make them register and post just for you.
Originally Posted by jaredwayt
c. i dont need physcial evidence, my car beat an ls1, thats all the evidence i need.
Originally Posted by jaredwayt
d.im not insecure about my car, i know what it can and cant do, chances are i wont beat a 02 ws6 with bolt-ons, hopefully not with a stock lt1, so why dont you stop "talking smank", stop fondeling yourself, and turn off REVENGE OF THE NERDS 3, and recognize that my lt1 beat an ls1.
03-06-2005, 11:03 PM
#71
Originally Posted by jaredwayt
a. i have not contradicted myself once, just trying to explain myself b/c you obvisouly dont understand.
b.i just bought new ties, so im gonna go race them again just for you, then im gonna bring them over to my house , make them register and post just for you.
c. i dont need physcial evidence, my car beat an ls1, thats all the evidence i need.
d.im not insecure about my car, i know what it can and cant do, chances are i wont beat a 02 ws6 with bolt-ons, hopefully not with a stock lt1, so why dont you stop "talking smank", stop fondeling yourself, and turn off REVENGE OF THE NERDS 3, and recognize that my lt1 beat an ls1.
b.i just bought new ties, so im gonna go race them again just for you, then im gonna bring them over to my house , make them register and post just for you.
c. i dont need physcial evidence, my car beat an ls1, thats all the evidence i need.
d.im not insecure about my car, i know what it can and cant do, chances are i wont beat a 02 ws6 with bolt-ons, hopefully not with a stock lt1, so why dont you stop "talking smank", stop fondeling yourself, and turn off REVENGE OF THE NERDS 3, and recognize that my lt1 beat an ls1.
Wow ... that was the worst post I've ever seen.
How about instead of just making **** up, you show us ONE shred of proof. You have all these claims, and absolutely nothing to back it up. Just another 17 year old kid, who thinks their car can beat anything on the planet ....
03-07-2005, 06:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Gloveperson
LMAO on how certain this guy is his LT1 would dyno at 275 because it was rated at 310.
I've never seen an LT1 dyno that high..although I wouldn't discount it completly. I would say 260 is a more average "high" number for an LT1.
I think this story would have been at least more believable if the LT1 pulled down low..but on top-end? That is a little harder to fathom.
I've never seen an LT1 dyno that high..although I wouldn't discount it completly. I would say 260 is a more average "high" number for an LT1.
I think this story would have been at least more believable if the LT1 pulled down low..but on top-end? That is a little harder to fathom.
03-07-2005, 09:02 AM
#73
Originally Posted by METALBEAST
Got a Chevy High Performance article of a 95 TA dynoing 273 RWHP BONE STOCK. I have plenty of articles of 260+ RWHP bone stock dynos. 260 RWHP is average and 250ish is low for an M6. PM me and maybe I can fax it to you. Damn I am so mad at the LT1 hate coming off of this thread. Unitl you show us a video,Thanks for the black eye on the LT1 name Jared.
03-07-2005, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by jaredwayt
allright, at least hear me out, im not trying to argue or anything at all, i never said i dislike ls1's, i really do like them, thats why i want one obvisuoly.all b.s. aside you dont think its possible for a 1996 camaro ss 6 speed, stock putting down 275-ish to the wheels, plus intake and exhaust, with a 3.42 gear, couldnt hang with a automatic basically stock t/a that weighs more, and puts down relatively the same number to the wheels?i clearly dont see why not.my car will run 13.3-4, no doubt, and ive seen several ls1's especially early auto. models go into the high 13's even 14's.i will see if they will register to post and tell you what happend, i just want to know why this is such a big deal that everybody thinks lt1's are so slow.honestly, has any ls1 guys in here while there car was stock race a lt1?chances are yes, but more than likely the car was owned by a 16 year old and it probally was a 1993 auto with 180k on the clock, and from that point on you got a bad perception of lt1's by the get go.but have any of you honestly raced an extremely low mile, perfect running car ss car m6, with a pretty good driver.from a first gear roll lt1's are pretty strong b/c they make good torque at such a low rpm, so that will benefit from a first gear roll, now granted i was spinning the tires, but i know how to drive my car and if you play with it it will hook.is it honestly so impossible to believe?
03-07-2005, 09:20 AM
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Oh and by the way. A 1998 TA weighs marginally more than you, and if it isnt putting down 300 even through a 4l60e something is horribly wrong with the car. Get a video and some time slips and I MIGHT think you arnt completely full of ****.
03-07-2005, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Gloveperson
That would be great. Guess my 94 was pretty low (252 RWHP stock).
PM me your fax number glove and I can send it. Sorry to get so ill but damn if this guy not stir up some **** with his story.
03-07-2005, 09:44 AM
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Bald tires + M6 + stock Lt1< A4 + slightly modded LS1.
Stop trying to defend your story. If you beat that LS1 good for you, but the problem is you will not convince any of us. You seem to want a reward or a prize for beating that LS1, but no one will give you credit for anything. An LT1 with bald tires will be stuck spinning for a while. Even if the driver sucked in the A4 all he needed to do is smash on the gas pedal and hold it there until he passes the finish line.
Like I said in the beginning don't try to get anyone here to say congrats because it won't happen. Many LT1 owners came forward and said that their LT1 would get raped by the LS1. If you had some mods and good tires then maybe it would be a different story, but when you come to this board with a fictional story then you won't get the response you want to hear. Everyone here has heard a lot of BS stories and yours just made the best sellers list in that category. Good luck getting the LS1!
Stop trying to defend your story. If you beat that LS1 good for you, but the problem is you will not convince any of us. You seem to want a reward or a prize for beating that LS1, but no one will give you credit for anything. An LT1 with bald tires will be stuck spinning for a while. Even if the driver sucked in the A4 all he needed to do is smash on the gas pedal and hold it there until he passes the finish line.
Like I said in the beginning don't try to get anyone here to say congrats because it won't happen. Many LT1 owners came forward and said that their LT1 would get raped by the LS1. If you had some mods and good tires then maybe it would be a different story, but when you come to this board with a fictional story then you won't get the response you want to hear. Everyone here has heard a lot of BS stories and yours just made the best sellers list in that category. Good luck getting the LS1!
03-07-2005, 12:55 PM
#79
Originally Posted by SCamaroS
Bald tires + M6 + stock Lt1< A4 + slightly modded LS1.
Stop trying to defend your story. If you beat that LS1 good for you, but the problem is you will not convince any of us. You seem to want a reward or a prize for beating that LS1, but no one will give you credit for anything. An LT1 with bald tires will be stuck spinning for a while. Even if the driver sucked in the A4 all he needed to do is smash on the gas pedal and hold it there until he passes the finish line.......
Stop trying to defend your story. If you beat that LS1 good for you, but the problem is you will not convince any of us. You seem to want a reward or a prize for beating that LS1, but no one will give you credit for anything. An LT1 with bald tires will be stuck spinning for a while. Even if the driver sucked in the A4 all he needed to do is smash on the gas pedal and hold it there until he passes the finish line.......
Metalbeast ... I don't think anyone here is hating or putting down the LT1 in anyway. If anything, I think most of us have owned LT1's, and I personally loved that car. Stock for stock there is a pretty substantial performance difference, however, and every avenue of possibility the LT1 had of winning is crushed by this guys story.
a. LT1 had bald tires and spun at the start, LS1 didn't.
b. LT1 was an m6, LS1 was an A4 (no possibility for a bad driver, just mash and go).
c. LT1's advantage is the dig, LS1's LOVE a 15-20mph highway roll.
d. LT1's slight advantage at low speeds, LS1's pull like beasts up top.
e. LT1 was down at least a car, and then managed to pull 3-4 cars on the LS1?!?
f. LT1 was bone stock, LS1 was lightly modded.
If you changed around some of these factors, I could see it happening .... but with absolutely nothing in his favor, the LT1 is getting ***-raped. We could say "anything can happen on the street," but then he's claiming to have stayed within a car or so of an Intake/exhaust m6 WS6 .... sounds like more BS to me.
P.S. Mag. Dyno #'s mean didily ****, so please stop posting them. Everyone knows dyno numbers can be swayed by at least 10rwhp in any direction the operator wants .... as far as I'm concerned a dyno graph by a reputable shop who has no benefit from the numbers (a.k.a. magazine payoff), and real-life track times by owners are the only things that matter to me. I have never heard of an LT1 dyno'ing above 270 ... and I believe the average seems to be in the 250-260 range, which also seems to be the consensus of the people who have posted their LT1 dyno numbers.
