Norrie

WOW, someone is getting a little testy. Did you not get your F-Body order processed in time? On behalf of everyone here, thanks for that well thought out message. And, I suppose that you and/or Ford are the donkey? Because it seems that a few LS1s have blown by you as well, hence the strong defense case that you present. I agree in that there should be no question as to which car is better. It appears almost all of the automotive press (excluding Ford mags of course) believe that the F-body is the hands down winner. The only defense that a Mustang person has is that they are still being produced and the Camaro/Firebird isn't. Here's a point or two of argument for you. (1) The Camaro kicks the Mustang's *** so hard, why would GM need to produce more? They've proven their point, they are the best. (2) It appears that the best performance car Ford can make is a Mustang. The best performance car that GM makes is? Anyone? That's right friends, the Corvette (obviously excluding the Goat of yester year) We ARE arguing current cars, are we not? So, if you would like to compare apples to apples, Corvette was created first and for 50 years has kicked Mustang ***. (Note, the Cobra and GT-40, great cars in their own right, were not produced by Ford, they were produced by Shelby American. Also, we are talking OEM numbers here, not aftermarket, not racing, OEM. Everyone knows that pure race cars typically aren't stock anyways, therefore, it isn't Ford vs. GM) I know, I know, the new Mustang Cobra is pretty damn quick. But, it took Ford 50 years to even slightly catch up to GM. How much time does one need? Everyone is entitled to their opinion, that's what makes this great country so great. You gave us yours, I'm giving you mine. I anxiously await your rebuttal. Oh and try not to take things so seriously, it’s just a difference in opinion. Let's get it on! <img border="0" alt="[fight]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_punch.gif" />

VTStang

I would not go as far as to say that in all "independent" magazines that critics rave "Camaro's and T/A's kick the Mustangs ***." I think that is far from the truth. Given LS1's are fast cars, but so are Mustangs. The magazines that I read (Car and Driver, AutoWeek, etc.) all say that the late model (99-02) Camaro's and Mustangs are pretty much even. The Camaro is faster in a straight line, but the Mustang is far-superior in handling. To borrow a quote from Car and Driver (and I can't remember verbatim, forgive me) "the Camaro SS is more of a muscle car, but the Mustang Cobra is more of an overall sports car." Each has its pro's and con's. In my opinion you get more for your money with a Cobra, but hey I am biased. Also GM did not kill Ford for the last 50 years in overall sports car performance. Given Ford does not have a car that competed with the Vette (which is an American icon) but it was only until the LS1's came out that GM had anything for the Mustangs. I mean the Fox bodies of the 80's and early 90's dusted Camaro's and T/A's. Come on, ask any LS1 driver out there, and I'll guarantee that he would be much more conscientious (and dare I mention even skeered) about racing a Fox body stang than a newer (96-98) stang. Lastly, because Ford chose the smaller motor 302 Windsor 5.0 and the new 281 modular 4.6 motor, you have to give those engines credit to be able to hang with and in some or most instances beat (depending on what engine the Mustang has) the 5.7 liter LS1 monster. I hate to speculate, but only if Ford decided to use the 351 Windsor instead of the 302's?? Anyways, I hate hearing LS1's make fun of how Mustangs (especially the newer 96-02) have to use a supercharger, nitrous, or turbo charged to hang with LS1's. Sorry that Ford does manufacture Mustangs with 330 HP from the damn assembly line. How else would you expect a GT that comes with about 245HP (96-98) and 260HP (99-02) from the assembly line to hang with an LS1??? Think about it fellas! For me though, I have a naturally aspirated 89' FOX, and I am game to take on any LS1 I see. Thanks for hearing me out.

00_TA_WS6

It was Ford who decided not to use the 351 not GM. Ford was all about makeing cars that they could sell. GM is the one who looked for the faster cars to keep the Legend of Muscle Cars alive. That might be why they are not making them anymore but that don't matter. If you Mustang guys want to be pissed at anyone because your mustangs are slow(casue they did'nt put 351's in them) then write Ford and voice your opinion. Don't come in here and complain to use because they are slow. This is just my opinion and I wish for anyone to tell me their opinion about what iI have said.

<img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" /> F-Body Guys

mlambrecht82

Okay, lets see, where to start? From the birth of the muscle car ford was ahead of GM until 1994. When GM came out with the corvette, ford had an engine available in the Falcon which was the 427. This 427 had 616 bhp form the assembly line, the engine was not overwhelmingly advertised and not too many people know about it. No GM ever could beat the fastest ford year after year until 1994. (except for maybe the vette in the early 90s, not sure on that.) As far as the cobra and GT-40 not being made by ford, is probably one of the most rediculous statments in the post. (forgive me for jumping around here) As far as the chevy guys complaining about the new blown cobra, I think GM is stupid for not putting blowers on there cars, it is by far the best thing you could do for an engine, better gas mileage more horsepower, more effiecincy. Everything is a plus with blowers, they bring engines to life. When you take a $35,000 dollar 2003 cobra and put it up against a brand new ZO6, the results to getting your money's worth are disastrous. (For GM) I have a 2002 Mustang GT, and I will admit that a 2002 6 speed Z28 will beat my car off the show room floor.(Not by much considering the difference in displacement) My car is now supercharged with a couple other bolt ons, and let me tell you I have $28,000 put into my car including tax and license as well as cosmetic and other pointless modifications, and you could drive a Trans Am WS6 6speed hurst, or SS or even a ZO6 off the show room floor and it won't be able to touch me. So in a speed to dollar ratio my mustang will beat a GM every time. (as far as being built cheaper, the stang has a higher saftey rating (=$) as well as more options included than the camaro does) Then a gain I'm sure there's some kid out there with an import with a 200 shot of NOS and a fat turbo that cost him $15,000 that will blow my drawers off. So keep in mind that there will always be a faster car, and facts are facts.

Regarding the coment to magazines favoring the camaro, they are extremely biased, for some reason the majority of car mags take GM's side and here is proof. How come I don't see any shoot outs between the last breed of Camaro SS and the 03 cobra, obviously the ford has an unfair advatage, and it doens't get published, wouldn't want to make GM look bad with the Naturally aspirated engine. Oh, and as far as handling the fbody has a really bad case of understeer, the stangs are balanced a little better, hence the stang being a better all around sports car -motortrend.

That's the end of my 2 cents, try not to get to upset at my words of praise to ford (as this is an LS1 site) Forgive me.

mlambrecht82

Okay, lets see, where to start? From the birth of the muscle car ford was ahead of GM until 1994. When GM came out with the corvette, ford had an engine available in the Falcon which was the 427. This 427 had 616 bhp form the assembly line, the engine was not overwhelmingly advertised and not too many people know about it. No GM ever could beat the fastest ford year after year until 1994. (except for maybe the vette in the early 90s, not sure on that.) As far as the cobra and GT-40 not being made by ford, is probably one of the most rediculous statments in the post. (forgive me for jumping around here) As far as the chevy guys complaining about the new blown cobra, I think GM is stupid for not putting blowers on there cars, it is by far the best thing you could do for an engine, better gas mileage more horsepower, more effiecincy. Everything is a plus with blowers, they bring engines to life. When you take a $35,000 dollar 2003 cobra and put it up against a brand new ZO6, the results to getting your money's worth are disastrous. (For GM) I have a 2002 Mustang GT, and I will admit that a 2002 6 speed Z28 will beat my car off the show room floor.(Not by much considering the difference in displacement) My car is now supercharged with a couple other bolt ons, and let me tell you I have $28,000 put into my car including tax and license as well as cosmetic and other pointless modifications, and you could drive a Trans Am WS6 6speed hurst, or SS or even a ZO6 off the show room floor and it won't be able to touch me. So in a speed to dollar ratio my mustang will beat a GM every time. (as far as being built cheaper, the stang has a higher saftey rating (=$) as well as more options included than the camaro does) Then a gain I'm sure there's some kid out there with an import with a 200 shot of NOS and a fat turbo that cost him $15,000 that will blow my drawers off. So keep in mind that there will always be a faster car, and facts are facts.

Regarding the coment to magazines favoring the camaro, they are extremely biased, for some reason the majority of car mags take GM's side and here is proof. How come I don't see any shoot outs between the last breed of Camaro SS and the 03 cobra, obviously the ford has an unfair advatage, and it doens't get published, wouldn't want to make GM look bad with the Naturally aspirated engine. Oh, and as far as handling the fbody has a really bad case of understeer, the stangs are balanced a little better, hence the stang being a better all around sports car -motortrend.

That's the end of my 2 cents, try not to get to upset at my words of praise to ford (as this is an LS1 site) Forgive me. <img border="0" alt="[angel]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_angel.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[angel]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_angel.gif" />

toxic99

VTstang , you say GM had nothing for the mustang in the 80's and early 90's. If I do recall the fastest american prodution car of the 80's was the GNX. Which is a GM... Duh....Then I think , I am not for sure but the ZR1 came out in 1990. Well I am sure you know what they did. So that leaves the mustang a distant 2nd and 3rd at times. A malm, your are so confused I won't even comment on your dumbass.

VTStang

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Norrie:
(Note, the Cobra and GT-40, great cars in their own right, were not produced by Ford, they were produced by Shelby American.

Dude they used all FORD parts. The parts were not manufactured by Shelby American, but simply put together by him. Get the facts straight.

VTStang

QUOTE]which proves that there are twice as many stupid people as there are smart people in the world. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

dude, you are on a roll! try to be a little more creative than that. you don't seem to be interested in the fact that Mustang (regardless of little girls driving v-6's) out sells camaro's and T/A's, rather you are interested in some very unoriginal cracks. i hate the art of bullshit, so come on man please spit me out some facts, rather than the childish nonsense.

VTStang

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by rudde68:
[QB] If I do recall the fastest american prodution car of the 80's was the GNX. Which is a GM... Duh....QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Who in the hell has ever heard of or seen the GNX???? Come on man, let's talk about cars that we actually see on the road. And I said that Mustangs owned CAMARO's and T/A's until the advent of the coveted LS1. I never said that Fox Body/5.0 Stangs beat Corvettes. In fact if you read my post a little closer, I said that Ford never made a car that was able to hang with the Vette until . . . well the 2003 Cobra. And coming soon the GT-40 will be re-released. Watch out now!!

WhitePheonix

VT, you mean the advent of the LT1, we owned the mustangs poor pathetic *** long before the LS1, Try about 1993 <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

crazyidiot4.8

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by VTStang:
<strong>QUOTE]which proves that there are twice as many stupid people as there are smart people in the world. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

dude, you are on a roll! try to be a little more creative than that. you don't seem to be interested in the fact that Mustang (regardless of little girls driving v-6's) out sells camaro's and T/A's, rather you are interested in some very unoriginal cracks. i hate the art of bullshit, so come on man please spit me out some facts, rather than the childish nonsense.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">dude i could really care less about the little mustangs rule the world pissing match yur having here. personally i like mustangs, just not as much as f-bodys and vettes.

i am a jackass at heart and i like to make jokes, and nobody else here seems to have a problem with my "childish nonsense". so if you don't like me making a little joke to keep this from becoming all out war, then go back to yur little mustang site. i'm sure everyone over there is so much more mature <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> if you come to an internet forum and expect to not find people making jokes, people who disagree with you, or people who's opinions you will never be able to change (might i point out that you are on a GM-based website trying to convince people that mustangs are kings of the road) you are living in a dream world. there will always be jackasses, there will always be people whose opinons differ from yurs, and there will always be someone FASTER (regardless of what you drive).

WhitePheonix

Quotes consistently used by Ford Guys:

"Not all of them are slow."

"Just you wait until 200...."

"Well if Mustangs had the 351, instead of the suckass 4.6 then....." <img border="0" alt="[whiner]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cry.gif" />

BullSSeye

http://forums.mustangworks.com/forum...php?forumid=20
http://www.leatherseats.com/wwwboard/ford/
http://www.canadianmustang.com/forum...c=showpostform
http://bbs.hardcore50.com/vbulletin/

And the list goes on.

There are plenty of places you can post where people will agree with you. You aren't going to win any arguments here. No one is going to go "gee, I never thought of it that way. Man the Mustangs are so much better. I'm going down to my local Ford dealer to trade in my POS F-body for a new GT!". <img border="0" alt="[Fluffy]" title="" src="graemlins/fluffy.gif" /> If you guys want a debate, cool. But I don't think too many people on this board are gonna waste time mudslinging.

GNX's and GN's aren't all that uncommon and certainly are more prevalent than any GT-40 will ever be. During the 80's, GN's were faster than any production Mustang, Camaro, or Vette. Also, the GMC AWD pair were serious competition. I used to own a couple 5.0's and I remember beating Camaros and Vettes with it all the time. But that joyride was over in 93. Numbers don't lie and the Camaro's numbers have kept up with the Mustang through corners and dominated in acceleration since the inception of the LT1. The Mustang's have always had a penchant for cornering. They can be pretty nimble. But GM has managed to keep within a few hundredths of a G all through the years. But none of us are capable of discerning that. In fact, my LE pulls .91 G on the skidpad. That's .01 better than the 03 Cobra. But I wouldn't ever know or feel it. I think the new 03 Cobra is impressive and is faster than the LS1. Kudos to SVT for building an impressive response to the revered LS1's. I only hope GM comes up with a response one of these days. Until then, the new Cobra maintains the bragging rights.

Someone was comparing their GT to LS1's and saying that for $26K he has this blown GT that would smoke any F-body that came off the showroom floor. You're gonna need a new approach if you want anyone to take you seriously. I could also run out and get a Z28 and install a blower, etc. and make it run 11's or possibly 10's for less than $26K. You could probably also make the same argument about 5.0's, Vette's, old muscle cars, imports, bikes, etc. etc. It's not as though an F-body will cost you $80K to run 12's. That realm is saved for the NSX.

Lastly, a stock GT will not hang with or beat a stock LS1 anything unless the driver of the LS1 has no clue what he's doing.

No whining here. I think most of us LS1 guys (and Mustang guys) will usually give a thumbs up for a good race, win or lose. <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />

TOXIC T/A

camaro, ta's, mustangs and all other fast cars are all good. it doesnt matter what you drive as long as you like it. all this discussion about gm is better than ford or ford is better than gm will never finish. just get on and drive what you brung. <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />

titanium barchetta

I thought BADZ was going to lock this kind of ****. If I was involved, this would never have gone this far.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Sad]" src="gr_sad.gif" />

Unfair bias against Ford owners on a GM site, go figure! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="gr_tounge.gif" />

Norrie

Thanks Toxic. That's exactly where I was going with this. We are all here to have fun with our cars, right? Who cares which is faster, better, slower? We like our cars, because they are ours. Who is better, GM or Ford? You tell me? They both have positives and negatives. The best car depends on what positives you are looking for and what negatives you can live with. We can argue this until we are blue in the face. At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter. I get to drive home in my Z28, you in your 'stang. Who cares? I was just trying to start ****; I guess it worked.

VTStang - As far as the personal attack goes, you just reiterated what I said. Ford DID NOT produce the cars. Thank you.

VTStang

No whining here. I think most of us LS1 guys (and Mustang guys) will usually give a thumbs up for a good race, win or lose. <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" /> [/QB][/QUOTE]

well put BullSSeye. and i know that i am playing devil's advocate on this website, and i am by no means trying to convince anyone either way. i just like facts. i respect Vette's, Camaro's and T/A's. everyone is entitled to their preferences. ya'll take care now.

mlambrecht82

What exactly is a GNX? I never heard of one, what do they look like? what kind of engine do they have, can someone please educate me on these cars?

crazyidiot4.8

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by 88lx357:
<strong> When the mustang outsells the firechickens and ***-aros over 2:1</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">which proves that there are twice as many stupid people as there are smart people in the world. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

toxic99

A GNX is basically a GN(Grand National) with extra stuff. The GN was actually faster than the mustangs, camaros , and vettes as well. Which are pretty common along with t-types.