Ex-Stang

Yup.

And one of the things that tends to get lost in these discussions is that the fastest F-bod from the factory was actually a 3rd-gen - the 20th Anniversary Trans Am, powered by that selfsame intercooled 3.8 turbo 6 from the Buick Grand National...

And to answer MLambrecht more specifically, the GNX was your basic Buick Grand National (itself a mid-to-late '80's Buick Regal T-Type in black monochrome, tip to tail) with fender flares, 'Vette-sized tires wrapping BBS-style blacked-out lace pattern wheels, and vents on the front fenders just ahead of the cowl. I believe the 'X's were tweaked for a bit more power, too.

<small>[ October 08, 2002, 09:31 PM: Message edited by: Ex-Stang ]</small>

toxic99

I would love to get my ands one of the buick powered t/a's <img border="0" alt="[hail]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_hail.gif" />

toxic99

I would love to get my hands one of the buick powered t/a's <img border="0" alt="[hail]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_hail.gif" />

Black Death TA

too...many..facts..must...get...advil..! Besides that i have just a few things to say, number 1: before the LS1s came out GMs fbodies did compete and 9 times out of 10, beat the mustangs, as a former LT1 driver, the only time i would get beaten was by a cobra, or modded 5.0 (foxbodies are fast <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> ) a GT mustang of the same year, 97 (my LT1 was a formula bird of that year), would never give me troubles. Just my thoughts and opinions <img border="0" alt="[judgement]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_judge.gif" />

WhitePheonix

The fox bodies your speaking of must have been extensively modded, seeing they came out of the factory at most with 235. Even slightly modded they are no match for an LT1

Dr. Evil

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by 88lx357:
<strong>I'm ready to be taught a lesson by you badass LS1 guys. The F-body blows donkeys, period. Ford built more cobras than RA firechickens. This v-6 crap has nothing to do w/it. When the mustang outsells the firechickens and ***-aros over 2:1
There should be no argument of which car is better. Granted, from 94-02 the *** body was faster, but that is it. Anyways, I guess the v-6 stang is for girls, the v-6/v-8 f-body must be for gay dudes. That would explain the sale difference and it's cancellation.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">What a tard...

Ex-Stang

Oh yeah.

Them current 'Stangs are so-o-o-o superior, I broke a thirty-year family tradition just to go with a "gay" car... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Sure, Mustangs are selling. So's Titney Spears and the Backdoor Boys. With the consumer 'tard brigade out in force, snatching up their lard-*** SUV's in such numbers that overall fuel economy is now LOWER than it was fifteen years ago, is it any wonder that the porkier, more complacent 2-door coupe carries the day in sales?

Until Ford gets off its collective *** and offers SERIOUS performance for a MODERATE budget (hmm, kinda like them fox-bodies did back in the day...), this is how I'm voting with my wallet. And the only factory Mustang I'm not assured of STOMPING costs half again as much and sucks down close to twice the gasoline.

F--k, my ride even LOOKS better.

Malicious

iTrader: (1)

mlambrecht82:

Being that I'm not a F-body owner or a Stang owner, I may be wrong, but in saying you only spending $28,000 for all your stuff and no Z28 being able to touch you, off the show room floor. Duh, blower, bolt ons vs stock. Anywho, if my memory serves me right you could get a nice Z28 for a little over 20,000, and that leaves you with what? 8000 for mods.. So say nice head a cam combo, nice exhaust system, all with nice tuning, and still leaves room for a small spray of juice and guess what. You're trying to read the F-body's rear tag off in the distance. I dig both cars, I have no issues with fords, but saying that with 28000 no SHOWROOM GM could touch it is obvious, but blatantly retarded. But thats okay, I'll go buy a nice USED high mileage buick grand national and spank you for less than 15,000 <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

Ex-Stang

$22,700 for mine, brand-new. Another 1,000 in destination, delivery, security system, 'n whatnot.

That's $23,700, TOTAL EXPENDITURE. 'Member that zero-percent financing?

Yes, I'd VERY MUCH like to see what $4300 in mods would have my car doing... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

<small>[ October 29, 2002, 02:31 PM: Message edited by: Ex-Stang ]</small>

VTStang

Don't get me wrong I love Ford's, but I honestly have to admit that Ford Motor Company fails to cater to the needs of their dedicated performance enthusiasts. They do need to get off their "collective asses" and put together a serious performance car like the 2003 Cobra, but not rush the damn thing and cause it to "lack quality" and postponement of production like what is currently happening with the '03 beasts. I would love for Ford to drop the 5.4 in the GT's and have an even better engine for the Cobra's. I would also have loved if they would have put the 351 in the Fox Bodies. Coulda shoulda woulda. Oh well, I will always own a Mustang, but after I graduate my next car is a ZO6 because I just don't see Ford producing a badass muscle car, similar to the value of a Vette. I never thought I would say that, but after much research I think the ZO6 is a badass sports car.

BullSSeye

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by VTStang:
<strong>Don't get me wrong I love Ford's, but I honestly have to admit that Ford Motor Company fails to cater to the needs of their dedicated performance enthusiasts. They do need to get off their "collective asses" and put together a serious performance car like the 2003 Cobra, but not rush the damn thing and cause it to "lack quality" and postponement of production like what is currently happening with the '03 beasts. I would love for Ford to drop the 5.4 in the GT's and have an even better engine for the Cobra's. I would also have loved if they would have put the 351 in the Fox Bodies. Coulda shoulda woulda. Oh well, I will always own a Mustang, but after I graduate my next car is a ZO6 because I just don't see Ford producing a badass muscle car, similar to the value of a Vette. I never thought I would say that, but after much research I think the ZO6 is a badass sports car.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Man, I couldn't agree more. I've had two fox body Mustangs and I always wished Ford would have put 351's in those cars. I also would love to get a Z06. It's just a bit too pricey for now and there's no room for carseats. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> I just read an article in C/D about the new Viper. It truly is a bad **** car. But even so, the testers and editors still said they would much rather own a Z06. Hmmm...

Ex-Stang

So the latest Motor Trend sez that new 32v Mach 1 is also gonna have the iron block from the Cobra(!) What, no rehash of the older all-aluminum deal?

Well hell, long as they're doing that, why doesn't Ford just put the heads on a 5.4 block? Sure, it's got a taller deck height, but it fit just fine in that R version from a few years back.

Seems like the easy way to a stress-free 330 - 350 hp...

MackV

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by VTStang:
<strong>jimmy00Z28, where do you live? i'll run your stock z28 all day and i have a black 89 GT. not talking trash, just wanted to know if you live around Virginia?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hey, would you consider racing a 4 cyl. turbo dodge shadow? I live in Christiansburg. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

WhitePheonix

VTstang you must have mad mods done to your 5.slow to be so cocky. No foxbody is going to touch an LS1 (or LT1 for that matter) unless they have at least 10,000 in the engine, considering you came with what 215-220 at the fly out of the factory

LS1droptop

Where was the Ford Mustang in 1973-1974 when Pontiac had SD-455 T/A and Formula.
1/4 best mid to high 13.00s with 8.0 comp.ratio
1989 Turbo T/A
1/4 best 13.50-14.00
This was the only two times the T/A ever beat the Vette.This is not a knock on Vetts.Some of my best friends drive them.One of them ownes a 1969 427 Tri-power 4-speed Vette droptop.So if Mustangs can not beat Vetts than these two GM products can beat Mustangs.One good thing about a Mustang is that its not a rice burner.Besides sometimes you eat the bear,sometimes the bear eats you.

nick's00bergundyT/A

Dude, those older 5.0's are terds unless they have a lot of **** done to them. I used to spank them all the time in my '99 GT. I traded mine in for a '00 T/A. Now i know that mine was a terd too. Hey, I'm from JAX. It's fun to race on Blanding, but do you ever go out to Pritchard or Normandy? The cops have been heavy lately, but it will probably die down after a while. Later man. Nice ford kill. Feels good, doesn't it?

CJSWS6

Ok fellas, I'm new to the board but I've been reading all this hype about mustang vs. f-body. I myself own a 2000 WS6 with minimal mods. I've driven both mustangs and f-bodys. Both cars have very unique features. I personally prefer the f-body because of the smoother body lines, the ride, the Tq. etc. As for the 2002 GT <img border="0" alt="[guns]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_guns.gif" /> , been there ,done that. After having a TA for a year, I wouldn't even think about wasting my money on something I could get blown away in so easily. Yea, it's a WS6 against a GT . To make it a little more fair, has anyone here put the "Mighty 2000 cobra" against a 2002 SS or WS6. Yes?no? For all you mustang guys, it may not turn out as good as you thought. No way in hell can you consciously believe that the mighty cobra would just walk off and leave the previously superior f-body.

So here it is all you faithful 2003 cobra guys. How does this look?

2002 Camaro SS 2003 Cobra
1.35 mile
road course... 1:26.57 1:26.25
Best time!
Thats only a win by .32 secs. <img border="0" alt="[boring]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_zzz.gif" />

And this is a supercharged 390hp car against the measly 325hp slooooow SS. Lets give it up for the ford guys talkin all the trash!

Ok, now the fun part. The quarter mile!
2002 Camaro SS 2003 Cobra

1/4 Mile
Best time 13.252@106.42 12.79@106.39
.462 diff.
Closest
compatable
times! 13.252@106.42 13.188@107.33
.064 diff.
Thats pretty good best times for you ford guys a whole, almost half second,no, really, not bad <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" /> . But look. The cobra also ran a 13.188 too, only .064 better than the SS <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
Oh, and for all the pissed off ford guys who think I'm just pullin this out of my ****...you're wrong. It's true, every bit of it. The Cobra did out run the SS in all the races but not by much. AND it took a whole 390 supercharged horsepower to get there. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

All I got to say (besides all the other bs ) is now all us GM guys can turn the table on the ford guys and use their famous reply, "just wait until BLA BLA BLA comes out". Cuz now there is a demon about to resurface. And when it gets here, it's gonna suck to be pimpin' around in your Cobras when the GOAT pulls up along side of ya and waxes that ***. All your little girlfriends whom also drive mustangs are gonna be sayin,"Honey, why did you just get beat by a family car?" <img border="0" alt="[Fluffy]" title="" src="graemlins/fluffy.gif" />

Aside from all the pissin and moaning. Here it is. The article where I got all the "BS" numbers from at the top. Titled The Death Match!!!
Straight from the muscle mustangs and fast fords web site. Enjoy! Oh and for all the mustang guys I just pissed off... Cheers <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" /> See ya at the finish line <img border="0" alt="[Burnout]" title="" src="graemlins/burnout.gif" />
www.musclemustangfastfords.com/features/0208mmff_deathmatch

hondakiller

iTrader: (3)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Ex-Stang:
<strong>So the latest Motor Trend sez that new 32v Mach 1 is also gonna have the iron block from the Cobra(!) What, no rehash of the older all-aluminum deal?

Well hell, long as they're doing that, why doesn't Ford just put the heads on a 5.4 block? Sure, it's got a taller deck height, but it fit just fine in that R version from a few years back.

Seems like the easy way to a stress-free 330 - 350 hp...</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">ford had to relocate the shock towers to get that motor in. not to mention retooling the entire assembly line just to do those cars, i wouldnt call that stress-free. fomoco has commented on this many times. the blown 4.6 puts out more power and torque than the 4 cam 5.4 did and does it with a wider powerband and no huge bulge in the hood and no relocated shock towers. a supercharged 5.4 would be mo betta though <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

the way i look at it is this, if you lose, big deal you lost get over it. if you REALLY thought you were the fastest car on the street then i suggest you take your fantasy world elsewhere. if you win good job another kill in the book. its just a car so what? it seems only the slow guys complain but being slow myself i dont really see the big deal. if you really feel that bad go pick on some ricers <img border="0" alt="[jester]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_jest.gif" />

to ford, i say its about damn time. finally a decent car you can be proud to be in with a strong tranny that doesnt look just like a v6 stang with the pony package <img border="0" alt="[barf]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_barf.gif" />

<small>[ December 05, 2002, 08:56 AM: Message edited by: hondakiller ]</small>

It'llrun

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Originally posted by CJSWS6: <strong>

Ok, now the fun part. The quarter mile!
2002 Camaro SS 2003 Cobra

1/4 Mile
Best time 13.252@106.42 12.79@106.39
.462 diff.
Closest
compatable
times! 13.252@106.42 13.188@107.33
.064 diff.
Thats pretty good best times for you ford guys a whole, almost half second,no, really, not bad <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" /> . But look. The cobra also ran a 13.188 too, only .064 better than the SS <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
Oh, and for all the pissed off ford guys who think I'm just pullin this out of my ****...you're wrong. It's true, every bit of it. The Cobra did out run the SS in all the races but not by much. AND it took a whole 390 supercharged horsepower to get there. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

Aside from all the pissin and moaning. Here it is. The article where I got all the "BS" numbers from at the top. Titled The Death Match!!!
Straight from the muscle mustangs and fast fords web site. Enjoy! Oh and for all the mustang guys I just pissed off... Cheers <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" /> See ya at the finish line <img border="0" alt="[Burnout]" title="" src="graemlins/burnout.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Most of us have read the article, even on this board. I must say that it's weird seeing someone post "best" when it was simply the best then. You may note the articles note that the Mustang had already been clocked at 12.40's on another day. You CANNOT compare a WS6 to a 2003 Cobra without being on the losing end of performance. Sorry, that's just the fact.

What REALLY gets me is "closest compatable times"....WTF does that mean??? You conveniently used the WORST Cobra ET and GLEEFULLY compared it to THE BEST SS' ET! THAT is asinine. Sorry but, it doesn't make sense at all. In the end, the Cobra averaged .4+ quicker ET's on that day. That's allot for 1/4 mile. Sure, it's supercharged..... SO WHAT? You're trying to make it look like the Camaro closely compares. NEWSFLASH, it doesn't. It was MEANT to compare. Keep that in mind when you rant about the lessor car.

And as for the comment from ....someone... about needing 10,000 into a Mustangs engine to keep up with a stock LS1.... Get a clue. 1 supercharger, INSTALLED... Under $5,000. 1 Mustang quicker than a stock LS1. This isn't rocket science... And there's nitrous oxide as well. It's simple. And that was in regard to a 5.0 Mustang, not a 4.6... I gotta say, a 150 shot on an otherwise stock 89 5.0 will almost always outrun the LS1, considering drivers. I had no more than $3,000 into a 91's mods and ran 11.70's regularly. Tell me a stock 13 second car can do that... This stuff is out of hand. Like what you want but, STOP trying to trash someone elses cars based on your opinions. PLEASE? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" />

<small>[ December 05, 2002, 04:01 PM: Message edited by: It'llrun ]</small>

titanium barchetta

B O R I N G .... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Pic a new topic for an arguement. <img border="0" alt="[boring]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_zzz.gif" />

<small>[ December 05, 2002, 03:26 PM: Message edited by: titanium barchetta ]</small>