TA vs 3000GT
11-03-2006, 09:19 AM
#41
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Originally Posted by Sparetire
I love internet land. People are interested in making sweeping generalizations about a huge variety of cars based on about 3 peices of second hand data. In fact that seems to be more interesting than actually learning anything or, oh, I dunno......
ACTUALLY RUNNING THE DAMN CARS
Its not a religion or a politcal party people. Its different cars with different characteristics. If people stopped acting like it was a cultural war they might get lower blood pressure, have more fun, and generaly not act like douchebags quite so much. Acting as if you must defend some set of car values as if they were biblical principals is ******* stupid.
Facts. Not moral statements. Not indicators of the nature of the universe or of your souls destiny. Just the outcomes of complex physics.
A well driven 3KGT VR4 is a 13's car.
A well driven LS1 tends to be a low 13s car.
The LS1 has the advantage from a roll and often dig with a better power to weight and more power overall.
The VR4 has better traction in less than perfect conditions and is very responsive to mods.
If replacing a couple 9B turbos is expensive for you, then your an idiot who went to the stealership. A 14B is a great upgrade turbo and you can get them for less than 200 a pop in good shape. Less than 100 for a bad one and just get it rebuilt for another 100 or so. Its been that way for years. I have 2 14Bs in my garage right now. One is not mine, but I can likely send them out the door for 300 today.
Turbo AWD 3800LB V6 cars will generally be harder to maintain than a RWD 3500LB NA V8 car. No ****.
3KGTs do not have lag unless your trying to drive one like a 575Ci Marine motor tow truck, and keeping the revs below 3. That would be hard to do even if you tried. The car makes power from 3 to a little below redline in stock form. Its not going to come off idle like an LS1. Thats no surprise, its 2.7L down on displacement and heavier.
I swear there are people who think that anything below 4L or so will be incapable of doing anything more than 15s while once you get over 5L magically you can make a bajillion HP on bolt-ons.
Basicly. The 3KGT is a fast car. In stock form and perfect conditions it can run times similar to a stock LS1, but more often they are about like a stock LT1. But frankly a lot of you people live in internet land where if you have a lid and catback Z you automatically run 13 flat. This is not the case. Hanging out at the strip and seeing what real people with real cars on a real track run would be a huge eye opener for many of you. I watched a C5 ZO6 run a 14.2 a couple weeks ago. Its capable of a full 2 seconds off that in perfect conditions. That driver sucks. Spun all the way. But guess what, thats what it ran. God knows what he would have run in a 3KGT. Probably a high 15 or something. In the real world, a lot of people would be eating a lot of crow because car X which they love gets beat by car Y which they hate which is supposedly so crappy. Import, Domestic, doesnt matter. People would be very surprised.
They do take a bit more to maintain. But lets not kid ourselfs that theres a free lunch. Rear end swaps for an LS1 are not exactly cheap. And a slicks and cam M6 can roach a 10 bolt. A missed 2-3 shift can roach a push rod. A vac leak can blow a turbo motor. A hard launch can eat a T-Case.
Both great cars. Very different. Nice kill.
ACTUALLY RUNNING THE DAMN CARS
Its not a religion or a politcal party people. Its different cars with different characteristics. If people stopped acting like it was a cultural war they might get lower blood pressure, have more fun, and generaly not act like douchebags quite so much. Acting as if you must defend some set of car values as if they were biblical principals is ******* stupid.
Facts. Not moral statements. Not indicators of the nature of the universe or of your souls destiny. Just the outcomes of complex physics.
A well driven 3KGT VR4 is a 13's car.
A well driven LS1 tends to be a low 13s car.
The LS1 has the advantage from a roll and often dig with a better power to weight and more power overall.
The VR4 has better traction in less than perfect conditions and is very responsive to mods.
If replacing a couple 9B turbos is expensive for you, then your an idiot who went to the stealership. A 14B is a great upgrade turbo and you can get them for less than 200 a pop in good shape. Less than 100 for a bad one and just get it rebuilt for another 100 or so. Its been that way for years. I have 2 14Bs in my garage right now. One is not mine, but I can likely send them out the door for 300 today.
Turbo AWD 3800LB V6 cars will generally be harder to maintain than a RWD 3500LB NA V8 car. No ****.
3KGTs do not have lag unless your trying to drive one like a 575Ci Marine motor tow truck, and keeping the revs below 3. That would be hard to do even if you tried. The car makes power from 3 to a little below redline in stock form. Its not going to come off idle like an LS1. Thats no surprise, its 2.7L down on displacement and heavier.
I swear there are people who think that anything below 4L or so will be incapable of doing anything more than 15s while once you get over 5L magically you can make a bajillion HP on bolt-ons.
Basicly. The 3KGT is a fast car. In stock form and perfect conditions it can run times similar to a stock LS1, but more often they are about like a stock LT1. But frankly a lot of you people live in internet land where if you have a lid and catback Z you automatically run 13 flat. This is not the case. Hanging out at the strip and seeing what real people with real cars on a real track run would be a huge eye opener for many of you. I watched a C5 ZO6 run a 14.2 a couple weeks ago. Its capable of a full 2 seconds off that in perfect conditions. That driver sucks. Spun all the way. But guess what, thats what it ran. God knows what he would have run in a 3KGT. Probably a high 15 or something. In the real world, a lot of people would be eating a lot of crow because car X which they love gets beat by car Y which they hate which is supposedly so crappy. Import, Domestic, doesnt matter. People would be very surprised.
They do take a bit more to maintain. But lets not kid ourselfs that theres a free lunch. Rear end swaps for an LS1 are not exactly cheap. And a slicks and cam M6 can roach a 10 bolt. A missed 2-3 shift can roach a push rod. A vac leak can blow a turbo motor. A hard launch can eat a T-Case.
Both great cars. Very different. Nice kill.
11-03-2006, 09:42 AM
#42
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Here is proof that a STOCK 3/S can run 13.0 (actually 13.087@105.9). He did take the spare tire and jack out. Anyway, it is the 4th time sheet listed, Joe G. Silver '96 Stealth TT:
http://joeg.mi3si.org/102701_MI3S_Ga...r_Dragway.html
http://joeg.mi3si.org/102701_MI3S_Ga...r_Dragway.html
11-03-2006, 09:48 PM
#43
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I skipped most of this thread. Sparetire your post is mostly accurate, however I disagree with your statement about a 3000GT/Stealth TT being closer to an LT1 than LS1. I believe it is much more comparable to an LS1 than LT1 if we're talking about a 1/4 mile race. LT1s generally run high 13s to low 14s. 3s TT cars generally run mid-high 13s with many cases in the low 13s as well. Never 14s, unless driven by someone who doesn't realize they are AWD. Basically the same times as LS1s in general. From a roll yes I'd say closer to an LT1 but not in the 1/4. 
11-03-2006, 10:18 PM
#44
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Originally Posted by TransAminal
Definitely could have been the Twin Turbo VR-4 model. They are dogs from a roll, considering its a 3800lb car with a V6 and bad turbo lag. From a dig they can hang because of AWD, but an LS1 will rape them from a roll 
11-04-2006, 01:01 PM
#46
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Originally Posted by CharlieCobra03
96ta My buddy that has two modded ones would love it if that were true. I beleive it takes a little more money to get 11's.
11-04-2006, 06:31 PM
#48
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Originally Posted by StealthX3
Here is proof that a STOCK 3/S can run 13.0 (actually 13.087@105.9). He did take the spare tire and jack out. Anyway, it is the 4th time sheet listed, Joe G. Silver '96 Stealth TT:
http://joeg.mi3si.org/102701_MI3S_Ga...r_Dragway.html
http://joeg.mi3si.org/102701_MI3S_Ga...r_Dragway.html
Why are you even on this site? You don't like LS1s and your entire family and friends seem to all own Stealths, I don't get it.
11-04-2006, 06:32 PM
#49
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the one i raced was modded i bet, it was pretty quick, personally i think those cars lick but ive never liked any ricer. Im not tryin to rip on the people that do like em. everybody has their own perfrence.
11-05-2006, 01:16 AM
#50
Originally Posted by CharlieCobra03
96ta My buddy that has two modded ones would love it if that were true. I beleive it takes a little more money to get 11's.
13T Turbos
Fuel Pump
Injectors
Piggy back
DownPipe
Boost controler
Clutch.
(all about 2k )
DO the labor himself and dont be afraid to tach it up on the launch and he will get his 11s ( if it doesnt break lol )
Turbo lag on a TT 3s with stock turbos? Please if you are going to talk bad about a car get your facts straight first.
Yes A TT 3s ran a 13 flat; thats not the norm so i dont know why it was even brought up. A stock TT 3s (1st gen ) will run a high 13 low 14 typicaly, and (2nd gen ) mid to high 13 typically.
Great cars and take well to mods, very fun from stop light to stop light. To much understeer to really enjoy the handling, and break to often to really enjoy driving the car ( please dont try to argue that just because you own one, you know its true
) 
damn rookies 
