Modifying stock controll arms
01-22-2009, 09:47 AM
#42
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I'm still wondering, what this "boxing the stock LCA" is good for...? 
From my understanding... the job of the LCA's is to transmit longitudinal forces for accelarating and breaking. And for this job, they are robust (will be difficult to compress or stretch them longitudinal).
By boxing these pieces and putting inflexbile Poly-Bushings in, they are more resistive against lateral and rotating forces.
But from my understanding, the LCA's have to ALLOW torsion, because it happens, when one wheel is more or less spring-defleted than the other one. Also lateral movement occurs, when the axle is moving up and down, because the endpoint of the PHB is moving around an arc-line.
It's the PHB's job, to transmit lateral forces... isn't it?
Well, stronger LCA-Bushings may have a positive effect on wheel-hopping, but boxing the LCA's?
Just a little bit confused...
Holger
From my understanding... the job of the LCA's is to transmit longitudinal forces for accelarating and breaking. And for this job, they are robust (will be difficult to compress or stretch them longitudinal).
By boxing these pieces and putting inflexbile Poly-Bushings in, they are more resistive against lateral and rotating forces.
But from my understanding, the LCA's have to ALLOW torsion, because it happens, when one wheel is more or less spring-defleted than the other one. Also lateral movement occurs, when the axle is moving up and down, because the endpoint of the PHB is moving around an arc-line.
It's the PHB's job, to transmit lateral forces... isn't it?
Well, stronger LCA-Bushings may have a positive effect on wheel-hopping, but boxing the LCA's?
Just a little bit confused...
Holger
I don't think using the lcas and their mounting points for roll resistance is what I'd do though. I'd probably go with a beefy swaybar.
01-22-2009, 09:52 AM
#43
If you look at any aftermarket LCA (without rod ends) you will understand that they don't allow for torsional movement either.
A non boxed stock LCA with any kind of solid bushing is a waste IMO because the stock LCA will twist.
So if you don't agree with boxing stock LCA's the same logic applies to the design of all poly/poly aftermarket LCA's. And there are a lot of that design being sold and in use.
There was a post about this recently, I'll see if I can find it and link to it if it is relavent to your concerns.
A non boxed stock LCA with any kind of solid bushing is a waste IMO because the stock LCA will twist.
So if you don't agree with boxing stock LCA's the same logic applies to the design of all poly/poly aftermarket LCA's. And there are a lot of that design being sold and in use.
There was a post about this recently, I'll see if I can find it and link to it if it is relavent to your concerns.
I'm still wondering, what this "boxing the stock LCA" is good for...?
From my understanding... the job of the LCA's is to transmit longitudinal forces for accelarating and breaking. And for this job, they are robust (will be difficult to compress or stretch them longitudinal).
By boxing these pieces and putting inflexbile Poly-Bushings in, they are more resistive against lateral and rotating forces.
But from my understanding, the LCA's have to ALLOW torsion, because it happens, when one wheel is more or less spring-defleted than the other one. Also lateral movement occurs, when the axle is moving up and down, because the endpoint of the PHB is moving around an arc-line.
It's the PHB's job, to transmit lateral forces... isn't it?
Well, stronger LCA-Bushings may have a positive effect on wheel-hopping, but boxing the LCA's?
Just a little bit confused...
Holger
From my understanding... the job of the LCA's is to transmit longitudinal forces for accelarating and breaking. And for this job, they are robust (will be difficult to compress or stretch them longitudinal).
By boxing these pieces and putting inflexbile Poly-Bushings in, they are more resistive against lateral and rotating forces.
But from my understanding, the LCA's have to ALLOW torsion, because it happens, when one wheel is more or less spring-defleted than the other one. Also lateral movement occurs, when the axle is moving up and down, because the endpoint of the PHB is moving around an arc-line.
It's the PHB's job, to transmit lateral forces... isn't it?
Well, stronger LCA-Bushings may have a positive effect on wheel-hopping, but boxing the LCA's?
Just a little bit confused...
Holger
so another tube can be welded to it without there being any big gaps. 
01-22-2009, 10:07 AM
#45
you know im not a professional fabricator but a damn good one and i have alot of friends that are damn good profossional fabricators that can make anything so i know some **** so get thouse aircraft quality rod ends and your flux wire welder and make some and im ganna buy some made by BMR etc and we can see wich car launches and behaves betterYou're taking this way to seriously.
01-22-2009, 10:23 AM
#46
I'm still wondering, what this "boxing the stock LCA" is good for...?
From my understanding... the job of the LCA's is to transmit longitudinal forces for accelarating and breaking. And for this job, they are robust (will be difficult to compress or stretch them longitudinal).
Just a little bit confused...
Holger
From my understanding... the job of the LCA's is to transmit longitudinal forces for accelarating and breaking. And for this job, they are robust (will be difficult to compress or stretch them longitudinal).
Just a little bit confused...
Holger
01-22-2009, 04:36 PM
#48
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Yes, if you're not going with a complete rod-end/spherical bearing or at least a rubber/rod-end, then the Moog in otherwise stock arms is usually good enough for many applications outside dedicated competition.
01-23-2009, 04:20 PM
#50
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Sorry - didn't check this thread for a couple days.
I use aluminum rods. They stand up to road racing abuse, but you can buy steel for $1 more per rod. I get mine locally at Clausen Racing. Check sponsors for competitive prices, but mine were $11 per rod - and they come pre-threaded on both ends (right hand threads on one end, left hand on the other).
Then, I use the QA1 CMR 10 and CML 10 rod ends, which I paid $10 apiece for. Are they as strong as the uber-nice $50 apiece rod ends? Nope. But, they have a higher load rating than my axle tubes or wheels. Which means that my axle is going to break before these break. I don't think I'm worried.
They also make noise, I think. But, if you are willing to go with rod-ends in the first place, I don't think a few extra rattles are going to bother you. I'm racing, so I can't hear myself think half the time.
The rubber ones I posted a pic of are from Howe Racing. If you right click on the pic, the address is there. It's http://www.howeracing.com/Images/Sus...rBushings2.jpg.
Anyway, like I said, I built mine for about $80, including tax (2x$11 + 4x$10 + 4x$2 for the bolts to hold them in the car = $70 + 9% tax = $76.30).
I use aluminum rods. They stand up to road racing abuse, but you can buy steel for $1 more per rod. I get mine locally at Clausen Racing. Check sponsors for competitive prices, but mine were $11 per rod - and they come pre-threaded on both ends (right hand threads on one end, left hand on the other).
Then, I use the QA1 CMR 10 and CML 10 rod ends, which I paid $10 apiece for. Are they as strong as the uber-nice $50 apiece rod ends? Nope. But, they have a higher load rating than my axle tubes or wheels. Which means that my axle is going to break before these break. I don't think I'm worried.
They also make noise, I think. But, if you are willing to go with rod-ends in the first place, I don't think a few extra rattles are going to bother you. I'm racing, so I can't hear myself think half the time.
The rubber ones I posted a pic of are from Howe Racing. If you right click on the pic, the address is there. It's http://www.howeracing.com/Images/Sus...rBushings2.jpg.
Anyway, like I said, I built mine for about $80, including tax (2x$11 + 4x$10 + 4x$2 for the bolts to hold them in the car = $70 + 9% tax = $76.30).
01-24-2009, 08:37 AM
#51
you know im not a professional fabricator but a damn good one and i have alot of friends that are damn good profossional fabricators that can make anything so i know some **** so get thouse aircraft quality rod ends and your flux wire welder and make some and im ganna buy some made by BMR etc and we can see wich car launches and behaves better
01-24-2009, 09:16 AM
#52
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I have a set of stock lca that have energy suspesion bushings and habe been boxed and painted black will sale or show you pics if you want to see what the look like for your project
01-28-2009, 10:34 PM
#54
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I am planning on doing this the end of this week or this weekend. Simply just welding a piece of steel, adding some moog bushings, and a lil bit of paint should go a long way.
I would love to do tests in our lab here at Texas A&M to see the differences in strength, but I don't have the extra 100 bucks to build a whole nother set that will be destroyed in testing
I would love to do tests in our lab here at Texas A&M to see the differences in strength, but I don't have the extra 100 bucks to build a whole nother set that will be destroyed in testing
01-29-2009, 03:09 PM
#55
I am planning on doing this the end of this week or this weekend. Simply just welding a piece of steel, adding some moog bushings, and a lil bit of paint should go a long way.
I would love to do tests in our lab here at Texas A&M to see the differences in strength, but I don't have the extra 100 bucks to build a whole nother set that will be destroyed in testing
I would love to do tests in our lab here at Texas A&M to see the differences in strength, but I don't have the extra 100 bucks to build a whole nother set that will be destroyed in testing