Dragaholic

iTrader: (180)

I was wondering what shock and/or spring set up is best of both worlds? (street use/track use) The car isnt a daily driver anymore, but most of its use is on the street. However, I do plan to take it to the track a few times out of the month and I'd like for it to do well there. I wasnt sure if theres a spring out there that you can use thats good for the strip and street because Ive heard lots say that when you lower your car, it hurts you at the track. Does that apply to 1" drop springs? (Hotchkis) The reason I specify on the 1" is because thats what I wanted to use and any lower I would assume would have more affect if any. Ive been debating whether or not I want to drop it or not for that reason. I figured that it wouldnt affect it since Im only going with a 1" as opposed to most people with the Pro Kit and similar kits. Is that just a rumor or is it true? Oh...back to the topic...is there a shock that works really well on and off the track and is a nice improvement over stock DeCarbons? Im looking for a shock and/or spring (if it doesnt interfere with track times) that is best of both worlds? Thanks

trackbird

iTrader: (4)

https://ls1tech.com/threads/showflat...amp;PHPSESSID=

Dragaholic

iTrader: (180)

I dont remember who said that the Hotchkis 1" lowering springs rode just like stock springs, but does that necessarily mean that they have the same spring rate? I wanted to lower my car just a bit to close up the wheel weld gap, give it a more stoutier look, and get away from the stock height. I didnt want to go too low and have other issues, plus I figured that with a less of a drop that if the rumor I brought was true, than it wouldnt be much on 1" drops. Do you know specifically if only a 1" drop will make a difference? Thanks Track Bird for your input, I knew you would be the first to reply. By the way, is your car lowered?

Anyhow, I didnt mean for that thread to get off the topic. The main reason for me posting that was for the shocks. I wanted to know what shock out there is best of both worlds? (street/strip) As I mentioned before, the car isnt a daily anymore, but most of its use is on the street. However, I do want it to perform well at the strip. Is there a shock out there that works well on and off the track? Thank again.

trackbird

iTrader: (4)

Nope. It just means that the Butt-O-Meter is not real accurate at judging spring rate. The shocks will have the most impact on ride quality. Springs are secondary. If you are even in Columbus, OH I'll turn up the Koni's and demonstrate for you (it is very educational to have shocks that you can "tweak")..

As you lower a car, you lower it's center of gravity. The lower the center of gravity, the less weight it will transfer during a launch (or any maneuver, that is why lowered cars handle better, it limits the cars ability to "dump all the weight on the outside tire which would over load that tire"). So, yes, a 1" drop can have a large impact on a car. However, you can sometimes "tuen around it" (to an extent) with shocks and LCA relocation brackets (minimize the damage).

Yup. It is 2/3 rds the drop of a pro kit and will have most of the impact as well.

I'm a sucker like that.....

Funny question....(to me anyway). Yes, it is lowered about 1.6 inches with an H&R stage 2 spring kit (which is about the stiffest lowering spring kit I've ever seen). My friends say I "mounted it to the ground", since I need 2 floor jacks to lift it (a small one to lift it enough to use a big one).

Best of both worlds=compromise. Would you want to drive a Formula 1 car to work every day? Not likley (though a few of us here would try it). Would your Camaro do well in a Formula 1 race? Not likely. But, you can drive your car every day (or when you feel like it) on the street, with an F1 car, that's not an option. The F1 car was built for a purpose and they made no compromises. If you do that, you'll wind up with a car that is not much fun to drive (a friend did that once, built a wicked 5.0 Mustang and hated trying to drive the evil thing...he sold it shortly after that). Street shocks don't "drag" well and drag shocks don't "street" real well, though many of them work admirably on the street. The standing recommendation from many manufacturers is that drag shocks are not safe on the street (the valving makes a vehicle unstable during evasive action...like avoiding an accident). But, many guys run them and have little trouble. If your priority is drag racing first, I'd consider a HAL (and talk to the guys who own them....see what they think). Otherwise, I'd probably keep the front decarbons and get some Competition Engineering rear shocks or something similar. However, I'd get opinions from the drag racers around here to be sure.

I would suggest a "mostly street shock". Again, either HALs or check with the drag racers for more ideas....

My thoughts....

Dragaholic

iTrader: (180)

When you mention Hals...is there only 1 Hal that youre referring to? The reason I ask is because I figured that there were several types/series/etc. So no matter if its 1/4" or 3", its still going to have the same exact effect on the weight transfer? I figured that since I only wanted to go with a 1" that it wouldnt make as much difference as one with a 1 1/2" drop. So if I went with the Hotchkis springs and then combined them with some good shocks, do you think that I can get it back to normal or even better. (transfering the weight) Thanks again for your input, much appreciated.

trackbird

iTrader: (4)

The adjustable drag shocks (12 position as I remember).

You didn't exactly understand what I was trying to say. You asked:

I was trying to make the point that any lowering will have an impact on a cars center of gravity and can potentially impact weight transfer and traction (for drag racing). the more you lower it, the worse it may be. Also, as you lower a car, the torque arm will take a small amount of pinion angle out of the car (not good for drag racing...the lower you go, the more it will lose) and can change the rear suspension geometry in a "less than favorable" way (that is what LCA relocation brackets help correct). So, the more you lower, the worse it may become.


You are correct, generally speaking, less drop is better for drag racing, but any drop may have a larger than expected impact on the way the car hooks.

No. Those springs are too stiff. The rates are too high for ultimate traction (IMHO). Here's why (strap in, it is about to get interesting/complicated).
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Spring rate is expressed in "inch pounds" (in lbs). Example, a 100 in lb spring will compress 1 inch for every 100 lbs you put on the spring. So, if this spring is 10 inches tall (with no weight on it....like when you are holding it in your hand) and we put 100 lbs on it, it will compress to 9 inches tall (200 lbs=8 inches, 300 lbs=7inches, etc).

Now, if we have that same spring (10 inches tall and 100 in lbs) and put 750 lbs on it, it will compress 7.5 inches (and give about an inch of travel before coil bind where it becomes solid, if we are lucky...but stay with me). When you launch the car and the nose begins to rise, that spring will help "push" the front of the car up and away from the ground for 7.5 inches (that's alot of lift).

Now, take a 750 in lb spring. This time we have to shorten the spring (to 4.5 inches) since 750 lbs will compress it only 1 inch (otherwise the car will drive around with the nose about 9 inches too high). When we launch the car on this same spring, it can only help lift the nose of the car 1 inch. After that 1 inch, we are "out of spring". There is no spring left to do any lifting. The nose will not come up as far and therefore we will transfer less weight to the rear tires to assist in traction. This is the secret behind Moroso's "trick springs" (they are not for the f-body...but some have asked about them before), a tall spring with a very low spring rate (in inch lbs).

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If you didn't want to digest everything between the lines above. Remember that stiffer springs are usually shorter and will not help lift the nose of the car as well as a longer, but softer spring. Lowering springs fall into the category of "shorter and stiffer". (this also explains why some lowering springs are longer than others "out of the box", but still may drop the car more than a shorter spring from another company....the rates are different).

In spite of all the science and math listed above, there are still lowered cars that are running quite quickly at the track. You can take a roadrace/autocross car to the drag strip and run pretty well (you won't beat an equally well set up dedicated drag car), but you will have a really hard time getting a drag race car around a road course/autocross....(different worlds).

As always....my thoughts.....

Dragaholic

iTrader: (180)

I see Hals come up all day on here...the ones that youre recommending me are the ones that float throughtout this site? Im not going to be doing any auto x-ing or anything of that nature, it will be at the drag strip and for everyday use. I wanted something that will work great for both and is a big improvement over stock shocks? With having all that youve said, I might just hold off on the lowering springs, but I want to look into some shocks for sure. Can you lower a car with shocks? You say that Hals are adjustable, does that mean it will lower the car or does it have to do with stiffness/softness? I figure...if I can stick with stock springs and lower the car without changing the spring rate, then maybe it wont be as bad. If there are springs that allow you to lower your car, does that still have an affect on weight transfer? When I say lower, Im just wanting an inch or close to it, but no more than an inch. Anyhow, I dont want to blabber on with so many darn questions, so I want to sum it up. I want a spring/shock set up that works great on the street and at the drag strip and be able to lower my car an inch. (or close, but not more.) If there isnt a spring/shock setup, then just shocks. But now that I know that lowering springs have affect on weight transfer, I guess Im going to have to throw that out the door. So now...Im just looking for a spring/shock set up. Is there a spring thats better than stock ones for street/strip use? Oh...what are your thoughts on coil overs? Anyhow, I dont want to drown you with questions so that will be enough for now...I think. Thanks Trackbird for all you help!

Pro Stock John

iTrader: (34)

If you want to lower your car and make it work at the track -

Hotchkiss springs + QA1 (formerly HAL) shocks

Dragaholic

iTrader: (180)

Front and rear, front only, or rear only? I was browsing and I noticed that they offer some drag springs...what are they about? The reason I ask is because you can buy all 4 shocks for such and such price and for $70 more you can have it all in a package. (4 shocks, 2 springs, and wrench) I figure...why not just spend the extra money even though you dont need them and save some cash. Maybe I could sell them later or something. Anyhow, let me know what you think. Thanks.

Pro Stock John

iTrader: (34)

Front QA1 springs are crap, the car will bounce too much feels like I have V6 springs in front now. I wish I had swapped back to stock springs in front.

Dragaholic

iTrader: (180)

Thanks for giving me the "heads up" because I surely didnt want to make that mistake. So just replace all 4 corners with the shocks and I'll be good to go? I havent decided just yet about the springs (Hotchkis), but if I ever do, then I'll know which ones to get. By the way, does anyone have any info on the new type R shocks from QA1? I saw someone post about it, but never heard, saw, or read about them. Thanks

trackbird

iTrader: (4)

Thanks PSJ.

PSJ has the drag racing end covered....