No reason you can't. Like you already stated the pieces will be heavier and if you are just welding sheet metal onto the stock pieces they probably still wouldn't be very rigid because of the thin metal, but I'm sure they would be an improvement. Your idea for building a tube frame in the torque arm is interesting. Maybe extend a similar deal to the LCAs and stiffen them up with a solid metal rod or maybe a tube welded in the middle?

 

if you could find a way to reinforce the tq arm that'd be sweet. in another thread i was told it probably wouldn't work because there's not much room for bracing and the weakest point is the thin mount.

i always see tq arms for like $15 so i've always wanted to try it but no one else seems to think it'd work

 

If you look at the tube thickness specs on the average rectangular aftermaket LCA, it's not thicker than a stock LCA.
I've seen guys say they took 1/4" steel and boxed them in, thats a bit much.

I used the same thickness as the rest, they obviously didn't change strength as far as pushing or pulling them, they did get a lot stiffer as far as resisting twisting, which makes this mod kind of make little sense to the people who go with rod end LCA's to keep the articulation.

I don't see why this wouldn't add strength, the end result is the same as a rectangular LCA.

 

You can have mine for the cost of shipping to try it on if you want. I just swapped it out.

Hence why I said probably. I really don't know for sure because I never even considered a boxed LCA.

 

All I can say is that if this works well, I might be doing the same to my stockers. I HATE my poly/rod end LCA's, they make so much noise and vibration. I would love to have the good old rubber bushings again, without the flex.

 

I started today, I sand blasted the LCA's and the PH Bar... I then primed and painted them through and through to make sure they were entirely rust proofed inside and out. I began working on the PH Bar first. I inserted small square tube inside of it, fit like a glove... I welded sections of it to keep from altering the shape too much, I hope I haven't warped it. I started running out of gas, so I kinda went all out at it. I did take a couple shots of the LCA's and the pieces to be added on to them. They have holes cut on each side of them already, in the one picture with the tubing you can see them. The tubing can be welded to the sides via these holes as well as welding it on the inside. Then cap it off by boxing it. Pictures will come soon, I haven't put them on the computer yet. In the end I ran out of gas and had to stop, sucks. I had planned on having final paint on all pieces tonight so I could clear them tomorrow and put them on. Shitty.

 

Oh, and I went with 1/8" steel on all additional metals. But I can completely assure you all that these will not flex! I just don't even see it being possible.

 

http://s148.photobucket.com/albums/s...albumview=grid

 

Theres some other pictures in that album... Didn't bother separating them all.

 

Good deal man. I Think i may have to hit up my welder for this.

 

http://www.geocities.com/acarnut99/bushings.htm#Factory
Are Factory control arms strong enough?

"They are just stamped steel". They are more than strong enough for a 1LE car on R compound tires. The stress loads are all longitudinal. They do not support any side loads, so they don't need strength in those directions.
"They twist, especially with poly bushings in place." Of course - if you take out the bushing compliance with poly, something must give. This twisting does not effect the alignment or placement of the rear axle.
"Boxed arms are better". There is no gain to be had from boxing the factory lower control arms. This is done by welding flat plates on the underside of the stamped steel arms. If fact, allowing them to twist will compensate for the poly bushings if you have them.
"Boxed (or rectangular) tubing will resist lateral loading better than tubular". There are no lateral loads on the LCAs or PHR.
"Tubular arms are stronger". Tubes are the strongest design for resisting twisting forces - but since this is not a problem in F-body trailing arm setups, tubular arms should be purchased for:
- appearance - 'cuz they look cool
- added weight (some can be heavier than stock/1LE)
- aftermarket LCAs with spherical bushings (for racing)
- adjustable aftermarket LCAs with spherical bushings (for racing, FWIW)
- spending excess cash.

 

I suppose this means all my efforts are meaningless then?

 

If the above information is correct - and it certainly seems to make sense - then, yes.

 

You forgot this:
Lets hear what the sponsors have to say.

BMR refered to me once as Joe LS1 boxing in the stock LCA's
It has the same result as their tubular or any non factory LCA.

So lets hear it, Or I'll demand a refund on my tubular LCA's.

 

When you sit and think of these three components, and their jobs that they do when under stress... I find it believable that a stamped unit could be more prone to flexing. These are the only real ties that the rear end has to the body. And I would think that when either tire grabs really well, and the body rolls to one side due to the torque of the situation, that it could very well lead to a twisting type of situation. And during the unloading of this new energy it would throw the tire back at the ground giving once again that moment of grab, and once again twisting and repeating the cycle. I have definitely had my share of violent wheel hop. And I would like it to end! That forceful pounding isn't doing any good to any component in the immediate range of its hammering effect. I will of course follow through with my sub project of the rear end, and judge the results for myself... I would like to hear an engineers perspective on the whole design though, and if a sponsor would like to chime in with some of that I would appreciate it.

 

And not to start anything here, just my ignorance needing to get me learned is all. But if these are the first two disclaimers of this project.

"They are just stamped steel". They are more than strong enough for a 1LE car on R compound tires. The stress loads are all longitudinal. They do not support any side loads, so they don't need strength in those directions.
"They twist, especially with poly bushings in place." Of course - if you take out the bushing compliance with poly, something must give. This twisting does not effect the alignment or placement of the rear axle.


So when they are just stamped steel on regular OEM rubber bushings they see no lateral or side loads what so ever. But when you get poly bushings a new side force is introduced and it is now vulnerable to it. ??

If I'm way off with that don't jump all over me, because I must of read that quote a hundred times. And cant figure out if your saying that poly bushings put things out of true just by being in place. Or due to their structural rigidity they transfer the twisting force to the next weakest point, being the LCA. If it is indeed the second, then I stand by my last question / statement type thing of some sort.

 

Thats how it works.



The only true test anyone can do to see whats stronger is take a boxed stock lca and whatever variety of aftermarket lca. Connect the two with a steel link, connect it to something to twist them and see what one breaks first.

This whole thread turned from boxing lca's to why we should keep our stock lca's because a rigid lca with poly bushings is hurting our suspension.
******* stupid. I bet aftermarket lca sales aren't going to suffer at all.
People aren't going to read this and NOT buy the cheap "cool looking" standard tubular poly/poly lca. So whats the point, there is none.

 

That tube in the lca with a plate seems a bit poorly designed IMO. Overkill in materials and too short.

My LCA's are completely boxed.


FWIW, my other car.

 

I replaced the bushings with poly ones and boxed them in myself. It took maybe 2 hours of work ( I already had the rear end dropped to remove the gas tank to fix another issue) and maybe 60.00 in parts. I guess it comes down to if you have the skills and the access to the proper tools then its cheaper to make your own. I cant imagine what a shop would charge you to do this if you brought all the parts in.

 

I hear you on the tube being short and over kill and all of the other issues at hand here. I am in no way trying to diminish sales from actual retailers. I was originally just trying to see if my idea for a little project while I was under the car was viable. I can say that I have no idea how much force goes on these arms, and the tube was intended to be cut full length. However I didn't perform the cut, and thats what was brought back to me. Yay... But I assumed it was for the best, as I didn't want to weld too close to the bushings and fry them. I go to a fairly large ( global scale ) machine shop to do my sand blasting and misc metal cutting when I do, and they have a machine that can measure the force needed before an item gives in any way... Whether it be twisting or pulling or etc... If there is time, and there is no risk to my LCA after its done, I may consider plopping it in there to see how it does. It would however be useless without a pre AND post number, and I don't see myself having the time to bring one of these back out there for the pre.

And despite the fillers and plates being short ( plates originally designed that way ) I wanted to be able to see if I developed a rust issue inside. All the blasting and what not, I'd hate for my work to go to **** so soon and not even see or have a defense to it. And the design still shout fight twisting just as much as if I had run them full length. The areas that aren't boxed are the areas tightly clamped down to the car by bolts. And if they even tried to begin twisting the once weakest point in the middle will not let it. We will see though, all I hope for out of my but of work is a slight degree of improvement.