Bleeding brakes with ABS (I tried search got nothing)
10-25-2003, 03:16 AM
#1
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Bleeding brakes with ABS (I tried search got nothing) Subject says it. I need to bleed the brakes in my car. I had the master cylinder off, the front brake lines were off and are completely dry. So what corner do I do first? Thanks for any help I don't have a book on this car.
10-25-2003, 09:41 AM
#2
You should have bench bled the MC before installation to purge all the air out.
Then begin bleeding the rest of the system.
If you are chasing an air bubble, start at the LF, then to the RF, then the LR then the RR.
Purging the system (no air) it's just opposite. LR, RR, RF and then LF.
Then begin bleeding the rest of the system.
If you are chasing an air bubble, start at the LF, then to the RF, then the LR then the RR.
Purging the system (no air) it's just opposite. LR, RR, RF and then LF.
10-26-2003, 03:40 AM
#3
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You can bleed the master cylinder on the car, it's just time consuming. It's just like bleeding the calipers (Takes 2 people). Bleed one hard line at a time. Crack the nut loose, until fluid starts to pour out.
Then push the brake pedal in and hold. Tighten the nut. Release the brake pedal. Repeat that until you don't get anymore air coming out. I'd overdo it, just to be safe. Brake fluid is relatively cheap. The nuts are 1/2" (at least that's what worked on mine).
Same basic thing on the calipers. Start at the right rear (farthest away). Break the bleeder screw loose, push in the pedal, hold, tighten the screw, release the pedal, repeat until no more air.
Never heard of Mitch's method??? Anyhow, you get the idea.
Air=BAD
Fluid=GOOD
Good luck.
Then push the brake pedal in and hold. Tighten the nut. Release the brake pedal. Repeat that until you don't get anymore air coming out. I'd overdo it, just to be safe. Brake fluid is relatively cheap. The nuts are 1/2" (at least that's what worked on mine).
Same basic thing on the calipers. Start at the right rear (farthest away). Break the bleeder screw loose, push in the pedal, hold, tighten the screw, release the pedal, repeat until no more air.
Never heard of Mitch's method??? Anyhow, you get the idea.
Air=BAD
Fluid=GOOD
Good luck.
10-26-2003, 11:58 AM
#4
You can bleed the MC on the car. But what a PITA to keep from loosening 2 nuts to remove the MC.
Lou Gigliotti fixed my air entrapment problem by bleeding it backwards. You are basically forcing the air bubble out.
If you need to flush, then go at it the traditional method. The langest leg first to get as much old fluid out as possible, first. Doesn't take as much fluid that way.
Lou Gigliotti fixed my air entrapment problem by bleeding it backwards. You are basically forcing the air bubble out.
If you need to flush, then go at it the traditional method. The langest leg first to get as much old fluid out as possible, first. Doesn't take as much fluid that way.
Last edited by mitchntx; 10-26-2003 at 12:01 PM.
10-27-2003, 02:39 AM
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Originally Posted by mitchntx
You can bleed the MC on the car. But what a PITA to keep from loosening 2 nuts to remove the MC.
Lou Gigliotti fixed my air entrapment problem by bleeding it backwards. You are basically forcing the air bubble out.
If you need to flush, then go at it the traditional method. The langest leg first to get as much old fluid out as possible, first. Doesn't take as much fluid that way.
Lou Gigliotti fixed my air entrapment problem by bleeding it backwards. You are basically forcing the air bubble out.
If you need to flush, then go at it the traditional method. The langest leg first to get as much old fluid out as possible, first. Doesn't take as much fluid that way.
10-27-2003, 02:58 AM
#6
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I picked up a set of Russell speed-bleeders... These things are the shizznit !!! Install 'em, get a 2 foot long chunk of clear tubing that fits around the bleeder nipple, a bottle of brake fluid, and a catch bottle. Put the line on the bleeder, pour some brake fluid in your catch bottle, and submerge the line in it. Open the bleeder screw. Slowly pump the brake pedal, having an assistant watch for bubbles. When the bubbles stop, close the bleeder and move to the next caliper Make sure you keep the master cylinder topped off with fluid. I love these things!
Make sure you keep the master cylinder topped off with fluid. I love these things!
10-27-2003, 04:48 AM
#7
Originally Posted by Guardsman
Interesting....cool. How did you keep from getting air back into the MC on the bench?? (probably mind numbingly simple)
Mounted the MC, removed the fittings/tubing and then hooked up the brake lines.
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10-27-2003, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by mitchntx
I screwed fittings into the MC outlets, put clear tubing over the fittings and routed the tubes back up and into the reservoir cap. Then plunged the piston till all the air was out.
Mounted the MC, removed the fittings/tubing and then hooked up the brake lines.
Mounted the MC, removed the fittings/tubing and then hooked up the brake lines.
10-29-2003, 12:43 AM
#10
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Originally Posted by pimpmaro
What about dealing with the ABS unit? Isn't there a special technique or cause for concern with that?
10-29-2003, 10:04 AM
#12
If you drained the ABS unit, then yes ... it requires a Tech 2 to cycle open the valving.
There is an internet "myth" floating around that says you can go over 10mph, initiate an ABS event, not turn the car off and re-bleed the system to get any air or fluid out of the ABS module.
I'm skeptical ...
There is an internet "myth" floating around that says you can go over 10mph, initiate an ABS event, not turn the car off and re-bleed the system to get any air or fluid out of the ABS module.
I'm skeptical ...
10-29-2003, 09:08 PM
#13
Originally Posted by mitchntx
I screwed fittings into the MC outlets, put clear tubing over the fittings and routed the tubes back up and into the reservoir cap. Then plunged the piston till all the air was out.
Mounted the MC, removed the fittings/tubing and then hooked up the brake lines.
Mounted the MC, removed the fittings/tubing and then hooked up the brake lines.
I agree with everything except....
I won't run the fluid back into the reservoir. It gets air "blended" in with the fluid which will sometimes settle back out as bubbles later on. I never reuse fluid from a brake bleeder or anything that has been run through any part of the system under pressure. Most fluid is cheap enough to throw away (I know Mitch....). It is just not worth having to deal with a bubble that shows up later on. Other than that....bleed away!!!
10-30-2003, 09:07 AM
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Ok, about this whole ABS thing (never changed fluid on a car with ABS before)... I'm about to yank all 4 calipers off and rebuild them, and was considering doing the same for the master cylinder, and i'm replacing all of the lines (including the ASR lines in the rear) with the stainless ones, should I be worried about all of the fluid running out of the ABS controller when I do this? In other words, when I'm done do I need to go find someone with a tech 2 to bleed that damn ABS block? 
10-30-2003, 10:40 AM
#16
When you remove a caliper, a 3/8" x 1" bolt will fit through the banjo fitting. Take the copper banjo seals off the caliper/fitting and seal the end of the hose/fitting with the bolt. This will stop all the fluid from draining out of the system or at least slow it down tremendously.
When I rebuilt my MC, I never bled the ABS unit because I used the bolts as described and kept the system fluid solid.
Once all the calipers are on and the MC is reattached, then replace the flex lines.
Then do a complete flush of the whole system, bleeding just opposite the normal way. Start at the driver's front, then to the passenger front, then to the driver's rear and then to passenger's rear.
The reason being is you will have an air bubble at the MC. You have to push that bubble through the whole system. The fronts have their own lines coming out of the ABS module, so each line could have an air bubble as it passes through the ABS module. So each side will need to be treated as 2 seperate lines.
The rear has a single line coming out of the ABS module. However, it splits at the diff. So once you get the air out of the driver's rear, the passenger's rear should go fairly quick.
It has been my experience that the ABS module will hold what fluid it has as long as the whole system isn't drained dry. Under normal conditions, brake fluid just passes through the module.
When ABS is initiated, the sensors at the wheel tell the ECM which line of the 3 to relieve pressure on.
I have been jacking with my brakes for 4 years using this premise and have had no issues with ABS or air.
When I rebuilt my MC, I never bled the ABS unit because I used the bolts as described and kept the system fluid solid.
Once all the calipers are on and the MC is reattached, then replace the flex lines.
Then do a complete flush of the whole system, bleeding just opposite the normal way. Start at the driver's front, then to the passenger front, then to the driver's rear and then to passenger's rear.
The reason being is you will have an air bubble at the MC. You have to push that bubble through the whole system. The fronts have their own lines coming out of the ABS module, so each line could have an air bubble as it passes through the ABS module. So each side will need to be treated as 2 seperate lines.
The rear has a single line coming out of the ABS module. However, it splits at the diff. So once you get the air out of the driver's rear, the passenger's rear should go fairly quick.
It has been my experience that the ABS module will hold what fluid it has as long as the whole system isn't drained dry. Under normal conditions, brake fluid just passes through the module.
When ABS is initiated, the sensors at the wheel tell the ECM which line of the 3 to relieve pressure on.
I have been jacking with my brakes for 4 years using this premise and have had no issues with ABS or air.