ABS Delete (pic)
10-27-2003, 08:47 PM
#1
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ABS Delete (pic) Here's how I deleted my ABS for a weight savings of 8 pounds:
http://www.mustangmods.com/data/440/absdel.jpg
The two fittings required are high pressure stainless steel.
Email me if you would like to have part numbers, supplier and pricing of these fittings. larry98@ev1.net
Now how do I get the ABS INOP light off?
http://www.mustangmods.com/data/440/absdel.jpg
The two fittings required are high pressure stainless steel.
Email me if you would like to have part numbers, supplier and pricing of these fittings. larry98@ev1.net
Now how do I get the ABS INOP light off?
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10-28-2003, 03:46 PM
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No flaring required. These are high pressure compression fittings that work on the tubing. You will need a tubing cutting then slip the tube into the fitting and tighten. Easy as that. I did not have to by any extra tubing. All tubing is factory. I could probably do a little better plumbing job knowing what I know now on lengths, etc. for looks but function is fine.
The ABS wiring is still on the car. I could reinstall by ABS very easily if I decide. I would have to get more tubing to reinstall it.
I can tell no difference in braking. Works just like with the ABS. I have stopped hard but not hard enough to lock the tires. As far as I can tell it works just like the breaking systems on cars before ABS was created.
The ABS wiring is still on the car. I could reinstall by ABS very easily if I decide. I would have to get more tubing to reinstall it.
I can tell no difference in braking. Works just like with the ABS. I have stopped hard but not hard enough to lock the tires. As far as I can tell it works just like the breaking systems on cars before ABS was created.
10-28-2003, 09:22 PM
#9
Originally Posted by Larry
No flaring required. These are high pressure compression fittings that work on the tubing. You will need a tubing cutting then slip the tube into the fitting and tighten. Easy as that. I did not have to by any extra tubing. All tubing is factory. I could probably do a little better plumbing job knowing what I know now on lengths, etc. for looks but function is fine.
The ABS wiring is still on the car. I could reinstall by ABS very easily if I decide. I would have to get more tubing to reinstall it.
I can tell no difference in braking. Works just like with the ABS. I have stopped hard but not hard enough to lock the tires. As far as I can tell it works just like the breaking systems on cars before ABS was created.
The ABS wiring is still on the car. I could reinstall by ABS very easily if I decide. I would have to get more tubing to reinstall it.
I can tell no difference in braking. Works just like with the ABS. I have stopped hard but not hard enough to lock the tires. As far as I can tell it works just like the breaking systems on cars before ABS was created.
Non-ABS vehicles used a proportioning valve to regulate pressure between the front and rear brakes. The ABS module handled that function on the new cars. If you ever use the brakes "real hard", I suspect the rear will lock up first. This could cause you to complete the 1/4 mile by sliding backwards past the turn off lane. I'm not saying it will happen, just that it could be a very real possibility. Be careful and let us know what you find out.
Originally Posted by Larry
No flaring required. These are high pressure compression fittings that work on the tubing. You will need a tubing cutting then slip the tube into the fitting and tighten. Easy as that.
My thoughts....
Last edited by trackbird; 10-28-2003 at 09:38 PM.
10-28-2003, 09:28 PM
#10
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Originally Posted by trackbird
Non-ABS vehicles used a proportioning valve to regulate pressure between the front and rear brakes. The ABS module handled that function on the new cars. If you ever use the brakes "real hard", I suspect the rear will lock up first. This could cause you to complete the 1/4 mile by sliding backwards past the turn off lane. I'm not saying it will happen, just that it could be a very real possibility. Be careful and let us know what you find out.
My thoughts....
My thoughts....
10-28-2003, 09:56 PM
#11
Originally Posted by quickWS6
That may be true, there are quite a few guys who have been running without ABS and no proportioning valve for a long time on the street and track with no ill effects. You just have to drive smart.
However, I understand the thought of "driving smart", I guess I just don't believe in luck that much.
My thoughts.
10-29-2003, 08:10 AM
#14
Originally Posted by quickWS6
So, basically, you guys would never drive any type of classic car? No airbags, no ABS, manual drum brakes a lot of times, only lap belts......
My simple point is....
GM pays engineers alot of money to keep us out of trouble. I am guessing that nobody on this post is a hydraulic/brake system engineer. However, if someone wants to show me the math regarding the changes to brake bias with no ABS (and the electronic brake force distribution module in the abs) and prove that it "works", I'm interested.....
My thoughts...
"It is dangerous to muck about with things you don't fully understand"
10-29-2003, 09:00 AM
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I lost my ABS when I switched to a 9", so went ahead and pulled out the block under the hood also. This was on a LT1, but without a proportioning valve the braking bias was *Definitely* off. I picked up a stainless steel brake crop valve (I think they are a sponsor here also) and attached that inline. You just need to do some hard breaking in a wide open area to determine the proper bias. Without one the rears will definitely lock up first under hard breaking.
I did double flares on all the lines - and a good quality flaring kit is a must. Autozone, orielly, event he craftsman one were all crap (for brake lines at least). I ended up using a matco kit and it worked well.
Also if you need teflon tape for anything make sure you use the yellow gas line rated stuff - the normal tape will just dissolve (the ptfe doesn't, but the backing material does)
Re: no abs - even in panic situations, as long as the road is dry, etc. it isn't a big deal at all. Now if it's pouring outside and you are driving fast it could be an issue - but you just have to be more carefull than normal.
I did double flares on all the lines - and a good quality flaring kit is a must. Autozone, orielly, event he craftsman one were all crap (for brake lines at least). I ended up using a matco kit and it worked well.
Also if you need teflon tape for anything make sure you use the yellow gas line rated stuff - the normal tape will just dissolve (the ptfe doesn't, but the backing material does)
Re: no abs - even in panic situations, as long as the road is dry, etc. it isn't a big deal at all. Now if it's pouring outside and you are driving fast it could be an issue - but you just have to be more carefull than normal.
10-29-2003, 09:44 AM
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I am not recommending that anyone remove their ABS. I am only showing a way for those who wish to save 8 pounds. ABS is a safer braking system than without. Particularly on wet or slick streets. My car is pretty much a track only car so I never drive in rain unless it starts while I'm at the track. Even then I'm more concerned about my ET Streets than my brakes.
The fittings I am recommending are Swagelok industrial type stainless steel fittings of highest quality. They are double ferruled to prevent tube slippage or leakage. I will however, check them often to be sure they are in good shape and no problems exist.
As far as a panic stop without ABS, the poor quality rod ends supplied with my PA K member is probably more of a problem. Not a very good design where the front two rod ends attach to the K member in my opinion.
Eight pounds is not a lot to some but to others it is a lot. Depends on whether you like seeing tail lights or win lights.
The fittings I am recommending are Swagelok industrial type stainless steel fittings of highest quality. They are double ferruled to prevent tube slippage or leakage. I will however, check them often to be sure they are in good shape and no problems exist.
As far as a panic stop without ABS, the poor quality rod ends supplied with my PA K member is probably more of a problem. Not a very good design where the front two rod ends attach to the K member in my opinion.
Eight pounds is not a lot to some but to others it is a lot. Depends on whether you like seeing tail lights or win lights.
10-29-2003, 10:18 AM
#17
Larry,
I understand why you would want to remove it (I once cut the reflector off of a 3rd brake light for a track car...ounces, ounces, ounces). I wasn't taking issue with you directly. Even for track only, I had some safety concerns regarding brake bias. However, I suspect that you could add an adjustable proportioning valve to balance the brakes properly (easily tested by making hard stops in a safe place) and then you would have a car with brakes that are balanced properly.
This is a forum to exchange ideas. I appreciate the effort you have expended to go fast. I just wanted to clarify some of the possible issues with that change before everyone starts ripping parts off of their street cars with little regard for the potential impact of those changes. My goal is to keep everyone alive to race another day (and I don't want them sliding into me on the highway...).
Let us know how it works out.
Kevin
Sorry, I didn't see Chris's post before typing up the above post. I prefer his method to the compression fittings and his use of a proportiniong valve.....have fun!
I understand why you would want to remove it (I once cut the reflector off of a 3rd brake light for a track car...ounces, ounces, ounces). I wasn't taking issue with you directly. Even for track only, I had some safety concerns regarding brake bias. However, I suspect that you could add an adjustable proportioning valve to balance the brakes properly (easily tested by making hard stops in a safe place) and then you would have a car with brakes that are balanced properly.
This is a forum to exchange ideas. I appreciate the effort you have expended to go fast. I just wanted to clarify some of the possible issues with that change before everyone starts ripping parts off of their street cars with little regard for the potential impact of those changes. My goal is to keep everyone alive to race another day (and I don't want them sliding into me on the highway...).
Let us know how it works out.
Kevin
Sorry, I didn't see Chris's post before typing up the above post. I prefer his method to the compression fittings and his use of a proportiniong valve.....have fun!
10-29-2003, 04:59 PM
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trackbirdl,
The addition of a proportioning valve is an excellent idea. I may add one after I have done more testing. Right now I can stop pretty hard without one. As fast as I really want to test with this PA K member.
If GM has the front and rear brakes designed right, stopping will be fairly close to the same with both even without a proportioning valve. I am sure one set will lock first as some have already mentioned and that will limit untimate stopping capability. Hopefully I won't ever need maximum stopping capability.
As far skidding during braking, a proportioning valve won't stop that. ABS is the only thing that will stop that.
The addition of a proportioning valve is an excellent idea. I may add one after I have done more testing. Right now I can stop pretty hard without one. As fast as I really want to test with this PA K member.
If GM has the front and rear brakes designed right, stopping will be fairly close to the same with both even without a proportioning valve. I am sure one set will lock first as some have already mentioned and that will limit untimate stopping capability. Hopefully I won't ever need maximum stopping capability.
As far skidding during braking, a proportioning valve won't stop that. ABS is the only thing that will stop that.
10-29-2003, 08:29 PM
#20
Originally Posted by Larry
trackbird,
If GM has the front and rear brakes designed right, stopping will be fairly close to the same with both even without a proportioning valve. I am sure one set will lock first as some have already mentioned and that will limit untimate stopping capability. Hopefully I won't ever need maximum stopping capability.
As far skidding during braking, a proportioning valve won't stop that. ABS is the only thing that will stop that.
If GM has the front and rear brakes designed right, stopping will be fairly close to the same with both even without a proportioning valve. I am sure one set will lock first as some have already mentioned and that will limit untimate stopping capability. Hopefully I won't ever need maximum stopping capability.
As far skidding during braking, a proportioning valve won't stop that. ABS is the only thing that will stop that.
As for skidding, I understand that only ABS will stop that. My concern was what happens under heavy braking (end of a 130mph blast in the 1/4???). The rear will be likley to lock up due to the weight transfer mentioned above, long before the front brakes are at the limit of their braking ability. So, you either lock the rear end and slide it out or you ease up and use much more distance to stop. That was the sliding I was speaking of.
I think everyone is on the same page now.....
PSJ, how does your stop during a "truck pulls out in front of me at 100+" type panic stop? The post from the LT1 owner said he had rear lock up, how does your LS1 car do?