JD_AMG

These kind of posts always confuse me.
So, you don't want to spend the money for konis (only $730 once), but you some how justify spending the money for bilstien HDs (~$400), then another $400 on the KYBs, and then another $400 on the SLP bilstiens?

94Z28-MSTGKLR

iTrader: (20)

Not everyone wants konis. Like I originaly said, I have friends with koni cars, bilstein cars, and hell one of my buddies has monroe sensatracks. Not everyone needs the best handling car in the world. Some people just like the low looks but still like the comfort of being able to drive it everyday and having the extra performance is just a bonus. True, he did spend a lot of money before he found a set up that works for him but what if he had bought the konis to begin with and was not happy? The adjustments would be great for fine tuning the suspension but some people could care less and don't want to have to constantly adjust the damn things just to get them where they want them. Just my .02 though.

01CaMMMaro

iTrader: (25)

koni's are known for their comfortability and ability to take the bumps in the road and I would be willing to bet the car you road in doesnt have his koni's adjusted to what you might like more.

94Z28-MSTGKLR

iTrader: (20)

True. However, I am more than pleased with my setup.

puggerton03

iTrader: (1)

when i get the money im getting some konis. from what i understand they have a lifetime replacement. what happens when the bilsteins wear out in 2 years or so? also how hard is it to adjust them? once you get them to where you want them leave them at that setting. just my .02.

Foxxtron

iTrader: (1)

Cannot externally adjust the current offering of Camaro Bilsteins. They can only be revalved, and that opens up a whole can of worms concerning work, warranty and quality issues.

But yes, as usual, with the current offering of aftermarket replacement (NOT "motorsport") shocks for this car, one usually gets what they're willing to pay for.

puggerton03

iTrader: (1)

i know the bilsteins arent adjustable i was talking about the konis in my first post.

Ponch95

iTrader: (5)

Hmmm I went from the Blistein HD's to the AGX's personally I thought the HD's sucked serious moose-**** but thats my opinion.

rednari

The AGXs are not that bad. Their problem is like any single adjustable shock: one setting for compression and rebound. In general the F body needs more rebound than compression to return the wheel to the surface quickly. This allows for better traction of course and also less pitch and roll since it takes the float and uncertainty out of uneven surfaces by faster rebounding.

But to get the quick rebound you need, you must turn the settings on the front upto say 6 or 8 degrees of stiffness to get the necessary rebound. This inturn makes compression harsh and provides a stiffer ride. Thats why a good dual adjustable shock is preferred where the compression can be set at 4 and the rebound at 6 for instance or someother workable combination for the particular car.

Konis, while a better made shock, are single adjustable too. But, you have to spend well over $1000 for a good set of duel adjustable shocks. Bilsteins are non adjustable, but provide a decent compromise between higher performance and streetability for most drivers. Currently, I have my AGXs set at 6 on the front and 3 on the rear. If you turn them down to 4-2 or 2-1 for instance the ride becomes more harsh. But, such is the situation with a $400 set of shocks. I think thats why Sam Strano offers his springs and the Bilsteins to achieve a good compromise.

BTW Sam what spring shock combo are you using on the race car?? You probably will not answer the question because it is a gaurded secret no doubt. But I am certain you could not have won that many championships by luck alone. Heh Heh!

Foxxtron

iTrader: (1)

Do more research rednari.

Koni SA's are NOT single-action/double-adjusting like you describe them to be. They adjust on rebound ONLY! Compression remains static. This was also true for several of the single-adjustible shocks that I have encountered in many places.

And yes, Sam runs Koni SA's. Also, Sam and others (myself included) can easily state again that Koni DA's are NOT necessary for many situations.

JD_AMG

Hes got an article from GMhightech that lists everything:
http://www.gmhightechperformance.com...fications.html

wannafbody

iTrader: (2)

ULS1A, if you want to get rid of your Strano springs shoot me a PM.

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

That is correct. Koni SA's are single acting (rebound only) single adjustables. Cheaper adjustable shocks, like the AGX's, Tokico Illumina's, and Tokico D-spec are what's known as double-acting single adjustables--meaning the compression and rebound are linked in one adjustment. That's not ideal, those that know nothing about suspension assume stiffer is stiffer, period. But it's more like tuning your engine and wanting to advance the timing, but you can only do it ties together with more fuel. You might not want a richer mixture... but you have to settle for it if you want the timing.

With shocks we tend to want the rebound control, but not too much compression (they handle different things).

Alex212

I believe SLP Bilsteins offer that to some degree.

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

SLP shocks are not as special as you seem to believe. In fact someone posted the part numbers from their SLP shocks the other day (from their car as OEM), and guess what? Same part numbers as HD's.

There comes a time where I just have to stand up and point out the assumptions and guessing. Despite the name, you got HD's. And in fact, the rear valving was changed for the worse IMHO which is why I do the "strano spec" set and will not sell the normal HD rear. After a number of complaints after the change to the current spec HD rear valving, I did a little digging and found the damping is more like SS deCarbon's than not, and that's not anything to write home about over a long run (but still better than trashed ones, or Z28/Formula spec deCarbon rears).

The issue here is with the statement "I believe". Conjecture and "believeing" becomes reality on internet forums--and that's not good.

It's great that Alex212 is happy with his setup. Many are not happy with the same setup, and more were when it was new, and then aren't as it ages and the shocks lose their ability to damp the springs as well. I don't think it's wise to take opinions on setup from those with limited experience to draw and compare with. The examples are simple: A lot of the Koni guys have had other shocks, and can compare/contrast from direct experience their findings. The other thing to look at is those that have adjustable shocks, Koni or AGX's, or even QA1's (yeck), you get a lot of folks that might run similar settings, but others that do not. Clearly a matter of taste that can't be quantified without having run different shocks or different damping settings to find what works best for that person.

I sell SLP parts. I sell Bilstein HD's. I sell my own version too. You want Bilstein's? I have you covered. But realistically too many folks are buying on price and price alone with no real idea how, or even that they are, different--let alone why. And that, IMHO is tossing good money away if the result isn't good 3 years from now due a lack of damping.

Alex212

So then the shock rate info on this page is wrong?
http://www.angelfire.com/my/fastcar/suspension.html

Bottom line for what I wanted I like them. Now whether they're SLP's or HD's or whatever it doesn't really matter to me. But I know I read about about allot less people complaining about Bilsteins than KYB's or Tokicos, which was good enough for me.

94Z28-MSTGKLR

iTrader: (20)

So I post my personal results and how I feel about my car and the set up I choose based on the research I did for what I wanted on my car and yet it turns into another koni battle. Wow! It never fails to amaze me. We should just go ahead and trash the hot cam while were here.

JamRWS6

The only problem with any of these arguments is the "koni battle" is always coming from people who don't have the shocks and say they are too expensive or they didn't want to buy them. A lot of the Koni guys around here have already gone through these other options and they didn't fit their needs. Let the battle continue.

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

This has NOTHING to do with Koni's.

This has to do with the fact I'm growing tired of mis-information that somehow becomes fact. I mean, do you believe everything you read on the 'net?????

As for the anglefire site. It's been up for years, since well before the valving changes to the HD's and the SLP shocks. Further, do you know what the numbers mean? And do you see numbers there that allow to you compare to other shocks? I don't. And at what piston speed where the values taken? Do you know that damping curves are not linear, and the forces a shock makes at say 5 in/sec. of piston speed are far different than @ 12 in/sec?

I'm not knocking anyone's choice, so let's grow up and understand that what am doing is trying educate the unaware that a lot of the information out there is wrong, outdated, and often completely mis-understood. Shocks are way more complex than a camshaft is, are you all cam experts? They are much simplier because they are not dynamic devices, dampers are their damping varies in real time. Most know that cams are the heart of an engine. Shocks are the heart of the suspension, and not something that I think should be treated with such ignorance.

And fwiw, what is often ignored when some get their panties in a twist and think I'm going off about Koni's and only Koni's is that I'm often not (and I'm not here), and that I freaking sell all the brands and styles being discussed here--more than any other company or sponsor of this site sells. I know about them, I understand them, and the differences and when I try to point out those differences I'm made to feel like I'm an *******. Maybe the ******** are the ones using internet heresay to pick their parts and then pretending they know it all.

I am not here to be everyone's pal. I'm here running a business with my name on the door. I take responsibility for my work and so I work twice as hard as I need to make sure folks understand what's what and don't buy the wrong parts because I'm more interested in volume like most companies are. I could sell a lot more volume and do it a lot more easily (and make more money) if I didn't give a damn. But I do, and that seems to get me in trouble...

z28bryan

iTrader: (7)

Look.. no one trashed your setup or called you stupid for finding the setup you like. If your happy then that's all that matters to you. Though if people come in here stating misinformation or misleading information, then everyone can sure as hell bet people are going to make corrections. Like I said a zillion times... there's a difference between personal ride quality taste and valving specs.

Putting all personal feelings aside.. a bunch of people are raving about using the SLP Bilstiens for lowering springs.. so Sam presents a fact that the SLPs are the same part numbers as the HDs... the rear HDs are valved pretty similar to stock shocks.. stock shocks are known to have issues dampening stock springs. Conclusion: The rear SLP Bilstien is valved almost similar to a rear stock decarbon...

Damn you Sam! You spoiled everything by exposing such facts!