watts linkage from sam strano
06-19-2009, 11:01 PM
#22
Got it installed tonight. Took about 3hrs to get everything adjusted correctly, but not too bad of a job. I put it on a 3rd gen, so a few things may vary slightly, but most are identical.
Initial non-scientific first ride results were very good.
Previously the car would turn in well but it seemed to get upset mid corner where the inside rear corner would lift, feel unstable & eventually oversteer. The rear of the car would first rock, then the rear would unload & slide. It basically felt loose & unstable when on the edge, making it hard to hold a steady line. Stiffening the shocks just made it worse & I actually reduced the rear bar size to reduce oversteer.
Now with the Watts, it feels more solidly located & you can push the car until it slides & either keep it sliding with the throttle or ease out of it & it straightens back out smoothly. For the first time tonight I actually got the car to slide all 4 wheels, whereas before it was always sideways with the rear coming around if you went in too hot.
Previously I could also get the tires to hit the inside of both wheel wells, now it does not touch, so it removed some lateral movement.
I have a nice cloverleaf interchange here with 25mph turns. Previously I could take the entrance at 65 & maintain about 55 mid-turn with some necessary steering correction & also required easing out of the throttle to keep from loosing the rear.
Tonight I went in at 60 for the first try & it happily held 55 with no looseness felt. I then tried adding some throttle midturn to see if I could kick the rear out & it surprisingly took quite a bit more throttle to make the car slide, where it would slide at a constant throttle setting. I increased speed up to 65 through the turns & it remained very stable. After 2 complete loops (8 270 degree turns), I could smell rubber in the car, so I called it quits for the night before I attracted too much attention.
This was at the top hole setting, which to my understanding is the stock roll center setting. I'll continue to tune the shocks etc to see how it reacts, but so far it already made more improvement than I expected. Even without changing the springs or shock settings, it felt like the rear was stiffened & remained much flatter.
I'll post some more results as I get more time.
Initial non-scientific first ride results were very good.
Previously the car would turn in well but it seemed to get upset mid corner where the inside rear corner would lift, feel unstable & eventually oversteer. The rear of the car would first rock, then the rear would unload & slide. It basically felt loose & unstable when on the edge, making it hard to hold a steady line. Stiffening the shocks just made it worse & I actually reduced the rear bar size to reduce oversteer.
Now with the Watts, it feels more solidly located & you can push the car until it slides & either keep it sliding with the throttle or ease out of it & it straightens back out smoothly. For the first time tonight I actually got the car to slide all 4 wheels, whereas before it was always sideways with the rear coming around if you went in too hot.
Previously I could also get the tires to hit the inside of both wheel wells, now it does not touch, so it removed some lateral movement.
I have a nice cloverleaf interchange here with 25mph turns. Previously I could take the entrance at 65 & maintain about 55 mid-turn with some necessary steering correction & also required easing out of the throttle to keep from loosing the rear.
Tonight I went in at 60 for the first try & it happily held 55 with no looseness felt. I then tried adding some throttle midturn to see if I could kick the rear out & it surprisingly took quite a bit more throttle to make the car slide, where it would slide at a constant throttle setting. I increased speed up to 65 through the turns & it remained very stable. After 2 complete loops (8 270 degree turns), I could smell rubber in the car, so I called it quits for the night before I attracted too much attention.
This was at the top hole setting, which to my understanding is the stock roll center setting. I'll continue to tune the shocks etc to see how it reacts, but so far it already made more improvement than I expected. Even without changing the springs or shock settings, it felt like the rear was stiffened & remained much flatter.
I'll post some more results as I get more time.
Last edited by Lonnies Performance; 06-19-2009 at 11:08 PM.
06-20-2009, 09:10 PM
#24
I played a little more today & after getting used to the new setup, I can push it pretty hard.
I actually had to lower the front tire pressure to better balance the car & tomorrow plan to stiffen the rear shocks some to see if I can make it better.
Street manners are good with only a slight additional road noise when cornering hard. During normal driving there is no additional noise or harshness that I could feel.... especially good since I drive it 65-70mi per day.
Does anyone have results from lowering the roll center? I have 6 more settings here that I did not try yet.
I actually had to lower the front tire pressure to better balance the car & tomorrow plan to stiffen the rear shocks some to see if I can make it better.
Street manners are good with only a slight additional road noise when cornering hard. During normal driving there is no additional noise or harshness that I could feel.... especially good since I drive it 65-70mi per day.
Does anyone have results from lowering the roll center? I have 6 more settings here that I did not try yet.
06-21-2009, 02:45 PM
#26
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Im planning on ordering a 12bolt or maybe a nine inch in the next month or two, and Id love to get a watts link afterwards. Sounds like an amazing product. But will it work on aftermarket rear ends?
06-22-2009, 02:32 AM
#30
Previously the car would turn in well but it seemed to get upset mid corner where the inside rear corner would lift, feel unstable & eventually oversteer. The rear of the car would first rock, then the rear would unload & slide. It basically felt loose & unstable when on the edge, making it hard to hold a steady line. Stiffening the shocks just made it worse & I actually reduced the rear bar size to reduce oversteer.
The watts rear looks sexy in black.
06-22-2009, 09:40 PM
#31
Went with black because red didn't seem to agree with my green car.
I'll try to get installed pictures when I get time. When I was installing it, there was poor lighting & the car was filthy as we got a storm here with 3.5" rain in 1 day.
With the stock panhard, it was hard to describe how the car felt, it seemed like it needed stiffer springs or a bigger bar to keep the rear more level, but it was already oversteering. Talking with Sam early last year, it seemed like it was unloading the inside rear tire, so I reduced the rear bar from the stock 24 to his 22 & it was more predictable with much less oversteer, even though it obviously still had the body roll. Now that unloading feeling is gone & all I feel is a slight weight transfer.
Drove it 70mi. today & no rattles, clunks or odd noises.
Wish I had one 2 years ago when I first started modifying the suspension.
I'll try to get installed pictures when I get time. When I was installing it, there was poor lighting & the car was filthy as we got a storm here with 3.5" rain in 1 day.
With the stock panhard, it was hard to describe how the car felt, it seemed like it needed stiffer springs or a bigger bar to keep the rear more level, but it was already oversteering. Talking with Sam early last year, it seemed like it was unloading the inside rear tire, so I reduced the rear bar from the stock 24 to his 22 & it was more predictable with much less oversteer, even though it obviously still had the body roll. Now that unloading feeling is gone & all I feel is a slight weight transfer.
Drove it 70mi. today & no rattles, clunks or odd noises.
Wish I had one 2 years ago when I first started modifying the suspension.
Last edited by Lonnies Performance; 06-22-2009 at 09:47 PM.
06-22-2009, 10:07 PM
#32
So-- you like it? 
__________________
www.stranoparts.com --814-849-3450
Results matter. Talk is cheap. We are miles beyond the success anyone else has had with the 4th gens, and C5, C6, C7 Corvettes,
10 SCCA Solo National Championships, 2008 Driver of they Year, 2012 Driver of Eminence
13 SCCA Pro Solo Nationals Championships
2023 UMI King of the Mountain Champion
www.stranoparts.com --814-849-3450
Results matter. Talk is cheap. We are miles beyond the success anyone else has had with the 4th gens, and C5, C6, C7 Corvettes,
10 SCCA Solo National Championships, 2008 Driver of they Year, 2012 Driver of Eminence
13 SCCA Pro Solo Nationals Championships
2023 UMI King of the Mountain Champion
06-23-2009, 10:59 AM
#34
Lonnie has the hollow 22 from before the Watts link existed (down from his stock solid 24mm which was too much with the PHB). I still recommend an adjustable rear if starting from scratch--but anyone who has a hollow rear already can certainly start with that and see what the result is, and you're satisfied then there is no requirement to change to the adjustable...
__________________
www.stranoparts.com --814-849-3450
Results matter. Talk is cheap. We are miles beyond the success anyone else has had with the 4th gens, and C5, C6, C7 Corvettes,
10 SCCA Solo National Championships, 2008 Driver of they Year, 2012 Driver of Eminence
13 SCCA Pro Solo Nationals Championships
2023 UMI King of the Mountain Champion
www.stranoparts.com --814-849-3450
Results matter. Talk is cheap. We are miles beyond the success anyone else has had with the 4th gens, and C5, C6, C7 Corvettes,
10 SCCA Solo National Championships, 2008 Driver of they Year, 2012 Driver of Eminence
13 SCCA Pro Solo Nationals Championships
2023 UMI King of the Mountain Champion
06-26-2009, 07:32 PM
#36
Started experimenting with the adjustable roll center & I must say even a minor change makes a noticable difference. Lowering the roll center 1 notch made my car feel more balanced as far as body roll & definited helped plant the rear end. I now have to get used to it for a while & further adjust to see where it works best.
Here are a few pics... sorry for the dirt underneath, we got a lot of rain lately.
Here are a few pics... sorry for the dirt underneath, we got a lot of rain lately.
06-26-2009, 08:47 PM
#37
06-29-2009, 01:45 PM
#39
Got it installed tonight. Took about 3hrs to get everything adjusted correctly, but not too bad of a job. I put it on a 3rd gen, so a few things may vary slightly, but most are identical.
Initial non-scientific first ride results were very good.
Previously the car would turn in well but it seemed to get upset mid corner where the inside rear corner would lift, feel unstable & eventually oversteer. The rear of the car would first rock, then the rear would unload & slide. It basically felt loose & unstable when on the edge, making it hard to hold a steady line. Stiffening the shocks just made it worse & I actually reduced the rear bar size to reduce oversteer.
Now with the Watts, it feels more solidly located & you can push the car until it slides & either keep it sliding with the throttle or ease out of it & it straightens back out smoothly. For the first time tonight I actually got the car to slide all 4 wheels, whereas before it was always sideways with the rear coming around if you went in too hot.
Previously I could also get the tires to hit the inside of both wheel wells, now it does not touch, so it removed some lateral movement.
I have a nice cloverleaf interchange here with 25mph turns. Previously I could take the entrance at 65 & maintain about 55 mid-turn with some necessary steering correction & also required easing out of the throttle to keep from loosing the rear.
Tonight I went in at 60 for the first try & it happily held 55 with no looseness felt. I then tried adding some throttle midturn to see if I could kick the rear out & it surprisingly took quite a bit more throttle to make the car slide, where it would slide at a constant throttle setting. I increased speed up to 65 through the turns & it remained very stable. After 2 complete loops (8 270 degree turns), I could smell rubber in the car, so I called it quits for the night before I attracted too much attention.
This was at the top hole setting, which to my understanding is the stock roll center setting. I'll continue to tune the shocks etc to see how it reacts, but so far it already made more improvement than I expected. Even without changing the springs or shock settings, it felt like the rear was stiffened & remained much flatter.
I'll post some more results as I get more time.
Initial non-scientific first ride results were very good.
Previously the car would turn in well but it seemed to get upset mid corner where the inside rear corner would lift, feel unstable & eventually oversteer. The rear of the car would first rock, then the rear would unload & slide. It basically felt loose & unstable when on the edge, making it hard to hold a steady line. Stiffening the shocks just made it worse & I actually reduced the rear bar size to reduce oversteer.
Now with the Watts, it feels more solidly located & you can push the car until it slides & either keep it sliding with the throttle or ease out of it & it straightens back out smoothly. For the first time tonight I actually got the car to slide all 4 wheels, whereas before it was always sideways with the rear coming around if you went in too hot.
Previously I could also get the tires to hit the inside of both wheel wells, now it does not touch, so it removed some lateral movement.
I have a nice cloverleaf interchange here with 25mph turns. Previously I could take the entrance at 65 & maintain about 55 mid-turn with some necessary steering correction & also required easing out of the throttle to keep from loosing the rear.
Tonight I went in at 60 for the first try & it happily held 55 with no looseness felt. I then tried adding some throttle midturn to see if I could kick the rear out & it surprisingly took quite a bit more throttle to make the car slide, where it would slide at a constant throttle setting. I increased speed up to 65 through the turns & it remained very stable. After 2 complete loops (8 270 degree turns), I could smell rubber in the car, so I called it quits for the night before I attracted too much attention.
This was at the top hole setting, which to my understanding is the stock roll center setting. I'll continue to tune the shocks etc to see how it reacts, but so far it already made more improvement than I expected. Even without changing the springs or shock settings, it felt like the rear was stiffened & remained much flatter.
I'll post some more results as I get more time.
Sounds like a win to me!!
