horrendous shudder with new brembos
07-03-2009, 07:30 AM
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horrendous shudder with new brembos in preparation of a track day at NJMP, i installed brand new, fresh out of the box brembo blanks, and hawk HP+ with one track day on them. after a quick pad bed in, i loaded the trailer and went down. at the FIRST time on the track, with the FIRST press of the pedal over 50mph with only moderate pressure, i got a shudder like you wouldnt believe in the front end. it shook the wheel so bad, i had to keep a death grip on it just to maintain control. i think warped rotor....but on BRAND NEW brembo blanks?? they had absolutely NO miles or heat in them whatsoever.
so after emailing tirerack, where i bought them, the answer i get was 'you overheated them at the track, they were too hot, and the pad probably had material buildup on it'. yeah, right...
they also said 'these rotors are not recomended for track use, you should use a slotted rotor'....again, yeah right.
after calling a customer service rep at tirerack, she said the same thing -overheated rotor. yet wouldnt listen to me when i said i had the shake at the very FIRST press of the pedal. she also said using them on the track voided any warrenty brembo had. like im the only one who has ever used brembo blanks for track use??
has anyone else had a bad set of brembos right out of the box? has anyone else delt with warrenty replacement or defects with them?
so after emailing tirerack, where i bought them, the answer i get was 'you overheated them at the track, they were too hot, and the pad probably had material buildup on it'. yeah, right...
they also said 'these rotors are not recomended for track use, you should use a slotted rotor'....again, yeah right.
after calling a customer service rep at tirerack, she said the same thing -overheated rotor. yet wouldnt listen to me when i said i had the shake at the very FIRST press of the pedal. she also said using them on the track voided any warrenty brembo had. like im the only one who has ever used brembo blanks for track use??
has anyone else had a bad set of brembos right out of the box? has anyone else delt with warrenty replacement or defects with them?
07-03-2009, 08:47 AM
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All I can tell you is good luck with getting brembo to warranty them... I bought 4 blanks from Brembo last summer and they sent me 2 fronts for the T/A and 2 rears for a Toyota... it took them the better part of a month and 10 phones calls to get them to send out the correct rears AND IT WAS THEIR FAULT... If I remember correctly I didn't go through TireRack, but did go through another 3rd party since I don't think Brembo sells retail... I'm getting annoyed just thinking about it all over! 
Bottom line, it's a real hassle and I wish you luck.
Back to the issue though, I HIGHLY doubt the rotor was warped right out of the box (Brembo does make quality rotors) and I highly doubt it was from over-heating. Did you properly bed in the pads? What method did you use? Some manufactures have you doing some pretty weird break-in procedures, but after all, they are the ones that produce the product so you figure they SHOULD know the best break-in for their pads. I broke in some EBC Greenstuff pads with the Brembo blanks exactly according to EBC's procedure and those pads squeal like a mother... I'm looking forward to throwing some Hawk HPS pads on there real soon.
Bottom line, it's a real hassle and I wish you luck.Back to the issue though, I HIGHLY doubt the rotor was warped right out of the box (Brembo does make quality rotors) and I highly doubt it was from over-heating. Did you properly bed in the pads? What method did you use? Some manufactures have you doing some pretty weird break-in procedures, but after all, they are the ones that produce the product so you figure they SHOULD know the best break-in for their pads. I broke in some EBC Greenstuff pads with the Brembo blanks exactly according to EBC's procedure and those pads squeal like a mother... I'm looking forward to throwing some Hawk HPS pads on there real soon.
Last edited by Adam2001WS6; 07-03-2009 at 08:53 AM.
07-03-2009, 09:53 AM
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LOL at the idiots at tirerack. There is no such thing as rotor "warping".
If you don't believe me, do yourself a favor and read this.
http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp...rakedisk.shtml
As for needing slotted rotors on the track thats laughable too. Ton's of people with all sorts of different cars (including fbody's and vettes) use blanks and they work perfectly fine.
Just out of curiousity have you pulled one of the wheels to look at what the rotor surface looks like or what your pads look like?
If you don't believe me, do yourself a favor and read this.
http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp...rakedisk.shtml
As for needing slotted rotors on the track thats laughable too. Ton's of people with all sorts of different cars (including fbody's and vettes) use blanks and they work perfectly fine.
Just out of curiousity have you pulled one of the wheels to look at what the rotor surface looks like or what your pads look like?
07-03-2009, 02:08 PM
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I don't care what you call it, warp or not. I've seem a warpped disc in person and that's from my car. I've Firestone try to turn the disc . They show me how the disc warp and wobbling.
You've a brand new disc, meaning it never heat up before. If you didn't season it the right way, it will frit
You've a brand new disc, meaning it never heat up before. If you didn't season it the right way, it will frit
07-03-2009, 03:12 PM
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LOL at the idiots at tirerack. There is no such thing as rotor "warping".
If you don't believe me, do yourself a favor and read this.
http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp...rakedisk.shtml
As for needing slotted rotors on the track thats laughable too. Ton's of people with all sorts of different cars (including fbody's and vettes) use blanks and they work perfectly fine.
Just out of curiousity have you pulled one of the wheels to look at what the rotor surface looks like or what your pads look like?
If you don't believe me, do yourself a favor and read this.
http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp...rakedisk.shtml
As for needing slotted rotors on the track thats laughable too. Ton's of people with all sorts of different cars (including fbody's and vettes) use blanks and they work perfectly fine.
Just out of curiousity have you pulled one of the wheels to look at what the rotor surface looks like or what your pads look like?
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07-03-2009, 08:58 PM
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I don't care what you call it, warp or not. I've seem a warpped disc in person and that's from my car. I've Firestone try to turn the disc . They show me how the disc warp and wobbling.
You've a brand new disc, meaning it never heat up before. If you didn't season it the right way, it will frit
You've a brand new disc, meaning it never heat up before. If you didn't season it the right way, it will frit
Have you ever bedded in a set of brakes pads before?
07-03-2009, 09:33 PM
#9
LOL at the idiots at tirerack. There is no such thing as rotor "warping".
If you don't believe me, do yourself a favor and read this.
http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp...rakedisk.shtml
As for needing slotted rotors on the track thats laughable too. Ton's of people with all sorts of different cars (including fbody's and vettes) use blanks and they work perfectly fine.
Just out of curiousity have you pulled one of the wheels to look at what the rotor surface looks like or what your pads look like?
If you don't believe me, do yourself a favor and read this.
http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp...rakedisk.shtml
As for needing slotted rotors on the track thats laughable too. Ton's of people with all sorts of different cars (including fbody's and vettes) use blanks and they work perfectly fine.
Just out of curiousity have you pulled one of the wheels to look at what the rotor surface looks like or what your pads look like?
07-03-2009, 10:16 PM
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the pads already had one track day on them, and they worked perfectly the entire session. it was a much slower, tighter track then NJMP, with speeds nowhere near what i saw at NJMP. i bedded the pads, again, just how hawk recomends them, to the letter.
i also had a very soft, low pedal with this combo.
i already swapped my street pads and rotors, and guess what. high, firm pedal and no shake or shudder at all. ive gone through the brakes so many times, i can do them i my sleep. they were all seated properly and tight.
the rotor surfaces look clean and normal, gouges, scorches, anything. they actually look like they were just turned. the pads look as normal as they can, after repeated runs from 130-60 and 100-60 during each lap. the rotor hats have discoloring, such as from heat. i mentioned that to tirerack, and thats why they kept saying i must have overheated them. they also say it was pad material buildup.....but on the FIRST time i hit the brakes?? what buildup could there be??
i also had a very soft, low pedal with this combo.
i already swapped my street pads and rotors, and guess what. high, firm pedal and no shake or shudder at all. ive gone through the brakes so many times, i can do them i my sleep. they were all seated properly and tight.
the rotor surfaces look clean and normal, gouges, scorches, anything. they actually look like they were just turned. the pads look as normal as they can, after repeated runs from 130-60 and 100-60 during each lap. the rotor hats have discoloring, such as from heat. i mentioned that to tirerack, and thats why they kept saying i must have overheated them. they also say it was pad material buildup.....but on the FIRST time i hit the brakes?? what buildup could there be??
07-05-2009, 04:36 AM
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I don't get it. The rotor was on the turning machine. It showed hella wobbing when the machine started. The tech can't even set the blade to cut it back to even. We're talking about a wobbing that's noticable with bore eyes.
Now if you don't call that a warp, I just don't know what to call it.
Now if you don't call that a warp, I just don't know what to call it.
07-05-2009, 08:09 AM
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the pads already had one track day on them, and they worked perfectly the entire session. it was a much slower, tighter track then NJMP, with speeds nowhere near what i saw at NJMP. i bedded the pads, again, just how hawk recomends them, to the letter.
i also had a very soft, low pedal with this combo.
i already swapped my street pads and rotors, and guess what. high, firm pedal and no shake or shudder at all. ive gone through the brakes so many times, i can do them i my sleep. they were all seated properly and tight.
the rotor surfaces look clean and normal, gouges, scorches, anything. they actually look like they were just turned. the pads look as normal as they can, after repeated runs from 130-60 and 100-60 during each lap. the rotor hats have discoloring, such as from heat. i mentioned that to tirerack, and thats why they kept saying i must have overheated them. they also say it was pad material buildup.....but on the FIRST time i hit the brakes?? what buildup could there be??
i also had a very soft, low pedal with this combo.
i already swapped my street pads and rotors, and guess what. high, firm pedal and no shake or shudder at all. ive gone through the brakes so many times, i can do them i my sleep. they were all seated properly and tight.
the rotor surfaces look clean and normal, gouges, scorches, anything. they actually look like they were just turned. the pads look as normal as they can, after repeated runs from 130-60 and 100-60 during each lap. the rotor hats have discoloring, such as from heat. i mentioned that to tirerack, and thats why they kept saying i must have overheated them. they also say it was pad material buildup.....but on the FIRST time i hit the brakes?? what buildup could there be??
Fronts are 12.8" x 1.26" +/- Rears are 12.0" x 1.02" +/-. I'm not even sure that makes sense, but anything is possible.
I run the same pads on the factory C5 rotors and have never had a problem like you describe (I always run new pads on new rotors). Assuming the rotor is the correct part # and a dimensional equivalent, there is a problem with the pads and the rotors. I'm guessing used pads and the new rotors aren't liking each other. No doubt you bedded them in, but something on the pads must be preventing good material transfer from the pad to the rotor. Did the situation get any better as you got heat into them? Are the pads glazed? Did the new rotors come with a rust preventative coating on them? If so, did you use brakeleen to wipe down the new rotors? If not, then the used pads could have been contaminated with the rust preventative coating and rendering them useless. That could explain the exessive pedal travel, pressure and heat?? Just thinking out loud
Either way I think at this point I'd start with new pads and new rotors.
Chalk this one up to experience.
07-06-2009, 12:08 PM
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Were your lug nuts torqued properly? I'm going on the "if you hear hoofbeats, don't think zebras" theory here.
Brand new Brembos that were out-of-round? Highly unlikely, but possible.
Overheating them in the first 1/2 second of pressing them the first time? Near impossible.
Some type of incompatibility with the new rotors and used pads? Never heard of such, but possible.
Didn't have the lug nuts tightened properly and the rotor vibrated badly when the brakes were applied? It's happened to me before. I felt some vibration during accel and turning, but it was 100x worse under braking.
Also, drilled and/or slotted rotors are great for racing - if you plan on buying a new set before every outing. That's why pro teams use them. They can afford it. If you want to use your rotors over and over again, you'll buy blanks. We all know that drilled/cast holes will crack. But, slotted will crack also. Takes a little longer, but it happens fairly quickly. The material is thinner where they are slotted, so it cools/heats up at a different rate than the surrounding metal. This means that it expands/contracts at a different rate. This causes cracks. Added to this is the fact that slotting causes a stress riser in the metal - somewhere for a crack to start.
You did the right thing in going with a quality blank rotor. My guess is that it was some isolated manufacturer defect or something unrelated to the rotor.
Brand new Brembos that were out-of-round? Highly unlikely, but possible.
Overheating them in the first 1/2 second of pressing them the first time? Near impossible.
Some type of incompatibility with the new rotors and used pads? Never heard of such, but possible.
Didn't have the lug nuts tightened properly and the rotor vibrated badly when the brakes were applied? It's happened to me before. I felt some vibration during accel and turning, but it was 100x worse under braking.
Also, drilled and/or slotted rotors are great for racing - if you plan on buying a new set before every outing. That's why pro teams use them. They can afford it. If you want to use your rotors over and over again, you'll buy blanks. We all know that drilled/cast holes will crack. But, slotted will crack also. Takes a little longer, but it happens fairly quickly. The material is thinner where they are slotted, so it cools/heats up at a different rate than the surrounding metal. This means that it expands/contracts at a different rate. This causes cracks. Added to this is the fact that slotting causes a stress riser in the metal - somewhere for a crack to start.
You did the right thing in going with a quality blank rotor. My guess is that it was some isolated manufacturer defect or something unrelated to the rotor.
07-06-2009, 01:42 PM
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im fanatical with torque specs. i always tighten then check the lugs every time i swap wheels, and then again at the track after a session to be doubly sure. it wasnt the lugs. something weird has to have happened. the only thing i can think of are the rotors. its not hubs, not suspension, not lugs, not tires, not pad buildup, not overheating.
i was waiting to hear back from tirerack or brembo about some kind of warrenty replacement. ill give it a little while longer, then im going to take them to a shop and let them turn a finishing cut, just to see if they are warped or not.
i was waiting to hear back from tirerack or brembo about some kind of warrenty replacement. ill give it a little while longer, then im going to take them to a shop and let them turn a finishing cut, just to see if they are warped or not.
07-06-2009, 03:32 PM
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I wish I was fanatical about them back then. I am now!
If they are that bad, you should be able to lay them on a flat surface and see some discrepancies. Before taking them to a shop, run some light-grit sandpaper over them. Just to get pad material off, but not to sand the rotor.
If they are that bad, you should be able to lay them on a flat surface and see some discrepancies. Before taking them to a shop, run some light-grit sandpaper over them. Just to get pad material off, but not to sand the rotor.
