15.5" ZR1 Brakes w/ Part Numbers
#21
TECH Enthusiast
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: New Orleans, LA
Posts: 556
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
OK - looks like a bit of misinformation going on here.
First, the Z06 brakes are probably pretty good, if you can get the biases and other stuff ironed out. But, for that money, you can get better. If you want the ultimate, I'd suggest Movit. They make ceramic rotors and 6-piston calipers that will be the best you can buy. Of course, they cost a few grand. But, they'll last the lifetime of your car and stop you faster than anything else on the market.
Second, 19s and 20s won't hurt your car, if you take steps to make them work. Just sticking a set of 20s on there, with some low-profile tires, can hurt you, though. They weigh more than what the car was designed with, and that weight is farther out from the hub. This will hurt both braking and acceleration. Not horribly, but it could add a few feet to braking distances. How many of us have had to make a panic stop and had less than 10 feet to spare before hitting the car in front of us? Add some larger brakes, or better pads, and it should mitigate a lot of this. Perhaps some clearance issues, and probably some issues with the sidewall being less compliant. Suspension can help that, though.
Third, the stock F-body (LS1-style) brakes are NOT bad at all. Well, not the rotors and calipers. If you put good pads and fluid, you can hang with some pretty impressive cars. I've got stock-design Baer calipers on Corvette rotors. It's basically the Baer C5 kit. Carbotech XP12 pads and Wilwood brake fluid. I can outbrake almost everything on the track. For a direct comparison, my brakes are better than a Wilwood 6-piston package on another F-body I race against (similar weights, similar tires, etc.). I outbrake him after almost every high-speed section of the track.
As has been said before on here, the best brake package for the money is the C5 conversion. If you want a bit more bling, try the CTS-V route. I wouldn't get anything more exotic than a Wilwood or similar 6-piston, and then only for the bling factor (they don't perform any better). If I win the lottery, I'll buy the Movits.
First, the Z06 brakes are probably pretty good, if you can get the biases and other stuff ironed out. But, for that money, you can get better. If you want the ultimate, I'd suggest Movit. They make ceramic rotors and 6-piston calipers that will be the best you can buy. Of course, they cost a few grand. But, they'll last the lifetime of your car and stop you faster than anything else on the market.
Second, 19s and 20s won't hurt your car, if you take steps to make them work. Just sticking a set of 20s on there, with some low-profile tires, can hurt you, though. They weigh more than what the car was designed with, and that weight is farther out from the hub. This will hurt both braking and acceleration. Not horribly, but it could add a few feet to braking distances. How many of us have had to make a panic stop and had less than 10 feet to spare before hitting the car in front of us? Add some larger brakes, or better pads, and it should mitigate a lot of this. Perhaps some clearance issues, and probably some issues with the sidewall being less compliant. Suspension can help that, though.
Third, the stock F-body (LS1-style) brakes are NOT bad at all. Well, not the rotors and calipers. If you put good pads and fluid, you can hang with some pretty impressive cars. I've got stock-design Baer calipers on Corvette rotors. It's basically the Baer C5 kit. Carbotech XP12 pads and Wilwood brake fluid. I can outbrake almost everything on the track. For a direct comparison, my brakes are better than a Wilwood 6-piston package on another F-body I race against (similar weights, similar tires, etc.). I outbrake him after almost every high-speed section of the track.
As has been said before on here, the best brake package for the money is the C5 conversion. If you want a bit more bling, try the CTS-V route. I wouldn't get anything more exotic than a Wilwood or similar 6-piston, and then only for the bling factor (they don't perform any better). If I win the lottery, I'll buy the Movits.
#22
12 Second Club
iTrader: (4)
Plus they're not even close to what the average driver would want on the street. They need to be heated up to actually perform well. That is something you can't do every time you go for a drive. I'm going to say that you'd be very disappointed in them. There are actually tests done on these rotors that basically say the same thing I said.
Link
Link
It doesn't matter to everyone. My car runs whatever it runs. I built it to be a fun to drive car, not set any records. And it puts a grin on my face every time I drive it. So I succeeded.
#23
________________________________
i am planing on doing these rotors and calipers on my CETA. i love the look and love the wieght factor.
i want to run 19's on all four corners so i should be fine. i hope to have them ordered within a month. waiting on rims. i have to find the right pair. i want black rims with yellow calipers. but i want the ZR1 rotors on all four corners.
#24
On The Tree
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Central NJ
Posts: 124
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You really don't need more than a 13.5" rotor with a 4 or 6 piston caliper on any car - most race cars run just that. Sure 15" rotors look cool, but they really dont add anything to the braking (besides some fade resistance) because the tires can't handle all the deceleration.
And the worst part is the 19" or larger wheel you need to run to stick those big brakes under. A 19" tire has too little sidewall to be compliant over anything but a pool table smooth road and they weigh a lot. Couple that with a car that needs a bigger sidewall and you get a lot of bump steer and skippung when hitting even minor bumps. The new camaro runs a 29" tire (on a 20" wheel) and is equivalent to running a 17" on a third or 4th gen.
My 2 piston Baer Track kit hauls my car down from 60 to 0 in 105ft (it was tested) without ABS - not like you are going to drop 20 feet with the ZR1 brakes...
And the worst part is the 19" or larger wheel you need to run to stick those big brakes under. A 19" tire has too little sidewall to be compliant over anything but a pool table smooth road and they weigh a lot. Couple that with a car that needs a bigger sidewall and you get a lot of bump steer and skippung when hitting even minor bumps. The new camaro runs a 29" tire (on a 20" wheel) and is equivalent to running a 17" on a third or 4th gen.
My 2 piston Baer Track kit hauls my car down from 60 to 0 in 105ft (it was tested) without ABS - not like you are going to drop 20 feet with the ZR1 brakes...
#25
Why would I keep you waiting?
The ceramic rotor brake system that he wants to use will require a minimum 19" -if not a 20" wheel. The new Camaro and Vette is DESIGNED around those rims, brakes, and suspension.
There have been a few "donks" around here that ended up upside down for raising the gravity center of a vehicle that would have only been better off lowered, and then driving it like a batmobile. - your answer -ANY moron can see that "donk"ing a sportscar is a bad idea.. unless of course, a guy just wants to be a moron and "donk" a gen4 Camaro... and its been done.
Get a ceramic brake system designed for the wheels and suspension that work on your car.
You forget where you are. This is LS1tech.com. The vast majority of the enthusiasts here are interested in pure performance. Not how stupid they can make thier car look so it stands out in a crew of "gangstas". And you need to GET to 60 quick enough to warrant needing better braking..
in short- you have GOT to be kidding me, dude!
The ceramic rotor brake system that he wants to use will require a minimum 19" -if not a 20" wheel. The new Camaro and Vette is DESIGNED around those rims, brakes, and suspension.
There have been a few "donks" around here that ended up upside down for raising the gravity center of a vehicle that would have only been better off lowered, and then driving it like a batmobile. - your answer -ANY moron can see that "donk"ing a sportscar is a bad idea.. unless of course, a guy just wants to be a moron and "donk" a gen4 Camaro... and its been done.
Get a ceramic brake system designed for the wheels and suspension that work on your car.
You forget where you are. This is LS1tech.com. The vast majority of the enthusiasts here are interested in pure performance. Not how stupid they can make thier car look so it stands out in a crew of "gangstas". And you need to GET to 60 quick enough to warrant needing better braking..
in short- you have GOT to be kidding me, dude!
ok you said Pure Performance. like road coarse donest take performance. hell if putting on upgraded brakes wasnt performance. GM wouldnt have wasted the money. A ceramic rotor is perfomance all on its own.
and what the **** is "donk"?
i like 19s on f-bodys. with the right rims. they look great. i agree with you i think 20 is to much. but hell.
____________________
side note. the ZR1 is 15.5 and has to have a 19" rim
if you could find a 15" rotor you could use a 18" rim. just like us guys are doing on the CTS-v stuff. i should have the "v" calipers on my other car in about a week.
#26
TECH Apprentice
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Southern Colorado Front Range
Posts: 347
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Why on hell's creation would you go through all the trouble to build a nearly 500hp engine just to brag about your 20"s, gold teeth, and brake systems that won't work in your application, and other misengineered bullshit. You have to GET to 60 quickly enough to brag about how efficient your stock *** brakes drag to 0. But hey, if thats your idea of fun...
The only problem with the Z06 PBR 6 pistons sets is they require regular maintenance to maintain thier level of performance. You could put a full set and bias valving in your Gen4 ride for less than $1500. They are heavier than Willwoods calipers, but I can tell you from experrience that they will stay in the fight a LOT longer and be a LOT more effective doing it.
Our cars look stupid on 20's to begin with. But that is what it would take to mount 15.5" rotors on a Gen4. And 20" wheels are WAY outside the design considerations of the Gen4 platform anyhow. Just a bad idea all the way around.
#27
TECH Apprentice
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Southern Colorado Front Range
Posts: 347
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ok you said Pure Performance. like road coarse donest take performance. hell if putting on upgraded brakes wasnt performance. GM wouldnt have wasted the money. A ceramic rotor is perfomance all on its own.
and what the **** is "donk"?
i like 19s on f-bodys. with the right rims. they look great. i agree with you i think 20 is to much. but hell.
____________________
side note. the ZR1 is 15.5 and has to have a 19" rim
if you could find a 15" rotor you could use a 18" rim. just like us guys are doing on the CTS-v stuff. i should have the "v" calipers on my other car in about a week.
and what the **** is "donk"?
i like 19s on f-bodys. with the right rims. they look great. i agree with you i think 20 is to much. but hell.
____________________
side note. the ZR1 is 15.5 and has to have a 19" rim
if you could find a 15" rotor you could use a 18" rim. just like us guys are doing on the CTS-v stuff. i should have the "v" calipers on my other car in about a week.
You need to consider the brackets required to mount those 15.5s on the Gen4 platform and you'll be needing those 20"s. I'm not saying it can't be done. But you'll spend more money than it is worth in performance upgrade.. especially in balance of what is currently available to us.
GM PURPOSELY DESIGNED its new cars for fitment of the ceramic 15.5 brake system. It was NOT afterthought. "Wow. Those would look pretty on the car we just spent millions designing.." NOT! GM didn't waste thier money. But some of us certainly do. You, of all people, I would expect would know the difference.
#28
CARTEK Racing
iTrader: (13)
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: East Brunswick, NJ
Posts: 2,182
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
just throwing it out there...
the best handeling/breaking race cars in the world, run an 11" rotor [278mm] that is 1-1/8" thick 28mm with 13" rims...
Sure the breaks are made from Carbon, and the rims are forged magnesium alloy but the sizes remain the same... they do weight 1322.77 lbs though... so that may be part of it... LOL
Just a thought lol...
Talking about Formula 1 cars BTW
the best handeling/breaking race cars in the world, run an 11" rotor [278mm] that is 1-1/8" thick 28mm with 13" rims...
Sure the breaks are made from Carbon, and the rims are forged magnesium alloy but the sizes remain the same... they do weight 1322.77 lbs though... so that may be part of it... LOL
Just a thought lol...
Talking about Formula 1 cars BTW
#29
TECH Enthusiast
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: New Orleans, LA
Posts: 556
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yeah - F1 brakes are a good example.
All ANY braking system does is transfer kinetic energy (forward motion) into thermal energy (heat). That's it, end of story.
So, if you put on 5" diameter rotors, they will work fine. As long as they are made from a material that can handle 5000* temperatures!
Obviously that was a goofy example, but technically correct. My point is that even 100% stock rotors and calipers will work for 99% of people (including track days) as long as you put on good pads (that can handle the heat) and good fluid.
All ANY braking system does is transfer kinetic energy (forward motion) into thermal energy (heat). That's it, end of story.
So, if you put on 5" diameter rotors, they will work fine. As long as they are made from a material that can handle 5000* temperatures!
Obviously that was a goofy example, but technically correct. My point is that even 100% stock rotors and calipers will work for 99% of people (including track days) as long as you put on good pads (that can handle the heat) and good fluid.
#30
TECH Apprentice
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Southern Colorado Front Range
Posts: 347
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
^^ I can live with that. Anyone that can get the 15.5 carbon or ceramic Brembo brake system, at $2k a wheel (that would be $8k just for the parts), to work well on a Gen4 and not make the car look stupid is good and has WAY too much spending money. I'll leave it at that.
#31
TECH Enthusiast
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: St. Cloud, MN
Posts: 587
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I never once said I didn't care about performance, I merely said I didn't give a **** about ETs. Why, because I don't enjoy drag racing.
I'd love for you to post more, so I can laugh a bit more.
And why do I care about what you've done to your car, so why are you telling me what your plans are, or what you've done to it?
As for your statement on Fbodies being underpowered, why don't you tell that to almost every one out there running LSXs because they're one of the best power plants on earth. Or tell that to the guys running 12s on basically a stock LS1 motor. Yeah, it must be underpowered to be capable of running 12s.
Yet again, I never once said I was going to run the carbon brakes, I was the one that first stated that it wasn't worth it. So, why would I care if they fit under my 18s?
Wow....
#33
On The Tree
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Newberg, OR
Posts: 127
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
All ANY braking system does is transfer kinetic energy (forward motion) into thermal energy (heat). That's it, end of story.
So, if you put on 5" diameter rotors, they will work fine. As long as they are made from a material that can handle 5000* temperatures!
So, if you put on 5" diameter rotors, they will work fine. As long as they are made from a material that can handle 5000* temperatures!
#34
CARTEK Racing
iTrader: (13)
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: East Brunswick, NJ
Posts: 2,182
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
yes, less force has to be applied with a longer lever in order to get the same force on the other side of the fulcrum. BUT, that is only if you need the same force as an outcome.
don't forget that with a larger diamiter rotor, you have more rotating mass further from the center threfor you have more moment of inertia. so a bigger roter will require more force to stop on itself, unless it is lighter which is possible with a ceramic rotor over an metalic one. i am not sure on the weights of the stock vs ZR1 rotor so I can only speculate...
#35
TECH Enthusiast
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: New Orleans, LA
Posts: 556
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You need bigger brakes so that you can apply more force to stop the tires. But, as soon as you have enough force to lock up the tires, you have enough braking force. For most of us, the stock brakes will lock up tires under hard braking (ABS kicks in).
Now, there are more reliable things than stock brakes. Occasionally, with repeated heavy use, the stock calipers will spread. And pistons have been known to mess up. But, this can happen with almost anything. About the best advantage of a big, $3000 system is that you probably won't exceed it's capacities for a while.