Alignment (are these specs ok)?
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Alignment (are these specs ok)? Just got new tires (BFG G-Force Sport 245/50-ZR16). Since the tires, noticed a "drift" to the left. Had the car aligned, no more drift, drives good. But, I'm not sure on these adjustments. Are these OK?
Before (front)
LEFT -- Camber = .01*, Caster = 4.7*, Toe = -.08"
RIGHT -- Camber = -.0*, Caster = 4.2*, Toe = .06"
FRONT -- Cross Camber = .1*, Cross Caster = .5*, Total Toe = -.02", Set Back = .35*
After (front)
LEFT -- Camber = .01*, Caster = 4.7*, Toe = .10"
RIGHT -- Camber = -.01*, Caster 3.2*, Toe = .05"
FRONT -- Cross Camber = .2*, Cross Caster = 1.5* Total Toe = .15", Set Back = .54*
Before (front)
LEFT -- Camber = .01*, Caster = 4.7*, Toe = -.08"
RIGHT -- Camber = -.0*, Caster = 4.2*, Toe = .06"
FRONT -- Cross Camber = .1*, Cross Caster = .5*, Total Toe = -.02", Set Back = .35*
After (front)
LEFT -- Camber = .01*, Caster = 4.7*, Toe = .10"
RIGHT -- Camber = -.01*, Caster 3.2*, Toe = .05"
FRONT -- Cross Camber = .2*, Cross Caster = 1.5* Total Toe = .15", Set Back = .54*
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the cross caster seems high. They have a special tool for fbody alignments. Off hand I dont remember the specs, but that seems high. I could look up the specs tomorrow. But, caster will not cause any uneven tire wear, so your ok there.
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Ok, now I am confused.
Before the alignment, it drifted slightly to the left (I told this to the place that did my tires). Steering was slightly easier to the left than the right (this was before new tires as well).
After the alignment (same place that installed the tires), no more drift (steering effort is equal left or right). Steering wheel is straight as well. Should I call the shop that did the alignment and question these figures???
I'd hate to have someone else mess with it, but I guess I have to if everyone is telling me the "after" specs are off. Any good places in the Central NJ area? Guaranteed I'm gonna be asked "why didn't you buy tires from us".
EDIT -- according to this site, it almost looks like I'm right there with factory specs (at least the toe is dead-on).
http://www.angelfire.com/my/fastcar/suspension.html
Before the alignment, it drifted slightly to the left (I told this to the place that did my tires). Steering was slightly easier to the left than the right (this was before new tires as well).
After the alignment (same place that installed the tires), no more drift (steering effort is equal left or right). Steering wheel is straight as well. Should I call the shop that did the alignment and question these figures???
I'd hate to have someone else mess with it, but I guess I have to if everyone is telling me the "after" specs are off. Any good places in the Central NJ area? Guaranteed I'm gonna be asked "why didn't you buy tires from us".
EDIT -- according to this site, it almost looks like I'm right there with factory specs (at least the toe is dead-on).
http://www.angelfire.com/my/fastcar/suspension.html
Last edited by Jeff 97 Formula; Jan 21, 2010 at 06:32 AM.
with that setting you "should" be pulling to the right if not to the right problem may be a radial pull ( just because tire are new does not meen they are perfect) you may cross side with the front tires and see if that changes drive abelity, if that does not change try cross rears , if eather of this changes the way car drives then you have a radial that is not perfect.I understand you say it is driving good now but it should not with that caster setting, it is too wide and to the right, you should have + 0.30 to + 0.50 " more lead" on right.
as stated above caster is not a wear problem, if problem is a radial tire problem then the next time you do a regular tire rotation you will have a bad pulling problem , best to find id you have a yire problem now so dealer can exchange it out
also I do not see a setting for the rear thrust line this should have been checked also
good luck ,Johnny
What I set it to:
CAMBER 0*, both sides;
CASTER 5* drivers side, 5.5* passenger side;
TOE-IN .04* both sides
........works well for me.
Caster helps the car's stability, as well as it's ability to "run straight". You run a touch more caster on the passenger side, to allow for most roads being "crowned", that way the car still runs straight most of the time. Yes, on a "high crown" road, you'll tend to run left, IF you're in the left lane, but since most of our driving is in the right lane, cars are set up for that.
CAMBER 0*, both sides;
CASTER 5* drivers side, 5.5* passenger side;
TOE-IN .04* both sides
........works well for me.
Caster helps the car's stability, as well as it's ability to "run straight". You run a touch more caster on the passenger side, to allow for most roads being "crowned", that way the car still runs straight most of the time. Yes, on a "high crown" road, you'll tend to run left, IF you're in the left lane, but since most of our driving is in the right lane, cars are set up for that.
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I called them today, they agreed the castor is off a bit, but said the camber and toe is where it should be for this car.
And yes, they said the castor is what controls how straight the car will drive. They asked me if the car was in an accident (which it hasn't, since I had the car when it was new). They told me sometimes the castor has to be adjusted like that to keep it straight, and also said it's possible the new tires are not fully "broken in" yet. And, they said I'm in good shape with both casters in the positive range greater than 3.
Anyway, I have a 6-month warranty on the alignment.
EDIT -- They did a rear thrust alignment as well.
And yes, they said the castor is what controls how straight the car will drive. They asked me if the car was in an accident (which it hasn't, since I had the car when it was new). They told me sometimes the castor has to be adjusted like that to keep it straight, and also said it's possible the new tires are not fully "broken in" yet. And, they said I'm in good shape with both casters in the positive range greater than 3.
Anyway, I have a 6-month warranty on the alignment.
EDIT -- They did a rear thrust alignment as well.
Last edited by Jeff 97 Formula; Jan 21, 2010 at 09:58 AM.
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Verdad Gallardo IMO, a lot of alignment shops just do an alignment to get it within the manufactures alignment spec range and leave it at that. You want a shop that'll do custom/performance alignments.
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Just had it on the highway at 70-80 mph, still drove perfectly straight. Steering wheel is straight too. No shaking at all (wheels are balanced with stick-on weights toward the outside, clamps on the inside).
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Most of the other comments here come from a performance approach....and I'm assuming you are at stock height.
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If the car is a daily driver this is what you want. Your camber and toe are OK so you won't get uneven tire wear and the car pulls straight. That's all you need out of a daily.
Most of the other comments here come from a performance approach....and I'm assuming you are at stock height.
Most of the other comments here come from a performance approach....and I'm assuming you are at stock height.
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If you are OK w/ the handling I would do as someone above mentioned if you are worried. Rotate the tires and see if it pulls funny. If it doesn't just move them back and call it a day.
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Taking it in this morning. I'm sure the guys are gonna think I'm crazy cause they're gonna drive it and probably say there's nothing wrong with it. They told me yesterday I should not be worried about the caster.
The owner of the place is gonna have a look. What should I tell them when they ask why I'm concerned about the caster? What about the camber and toe? Where should they be? I want to make sure everything is looked at, and adjusted properly.
Overall, what are the recommended settings for a stock suspension and wheels setup?
The owner of the place is gonna have a look. What should I tell them when they ask why I'm concerned about the caster? What about the camber and toe? Where should they be? I want to make sure everything is looked at, and adjusted properly.
Overall, what are the recommended settings for a stock suspension and wheels setup?
Taking it in this morning. I'm sure the guys are gonna think I'm crazy cause they're gonna drive it and probably say there's nothing wrong with it. They told me yesterday I should not be worried about the caster.
The owner of the place is gonna have a look. What should I tell them when they ask why I'm concerned about the caster? What about the camber and toe? Where should they be? I want to make sure everything is looked at, and adjusted properly.
Overall, what are the recommended settings for a stock suspension and wheels setup?
The owner of the place is gonna have a look. What should I tell them when they ask why I'm concerned about the caster? What about the camber and toe? Where should they be? I want to make sure everything is looked at, and adjusted properly.
Overall, what are the recommended settings for a stock suspension and wheels setup?
If you look at a shop factory manual, you'll find a fairly wide range of "acceptable" caster,camber and toe settings. This is for two reasons. First is so the delaership and GM can avoid tons of warranty claims, especially on tire wear, because they can stick the car on the rack, read the numbers, and tell the customer that it's "in spec", not our problem....
Secondly, there will be a bit of latitude between cars, with each one having its own "sweet spot". Naturally, it's somewhere within the manual's suggested settings. Unfortunately, most shops today are strictly $$$ driven, and spend the MINIMUM amout of time possible, and give you the line, "It's within spec". You need to find a shop that specializes in front end work, preferably high performance or race work. The standard dealerships or tire stores usually don't want to get that involved in that kind of work.
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I have a Haynes manual and it doesn't have any details on alignments.
I talked to the shop owner, he asked me does it currently pull? I said no (because it really doesn't), he said not to worry.
What are the real disadvantages of a cross caster at 1.5*?
Or, is it possible they just had an inaccurate reading on the caster angles?
I talked to the shop owner, he asked me does it currently pull? I said no (because it really doesn't), he said not to worry.
What are the real disadvantages of a cross caster at 1.5*?
Or, is it possible they just had an inaccurate reading on the caster angles?
I have a Haynes manual and it doesn't have any details on alignments.
Haynes won't, I was referring to a GM factory manual
I talked to the shop owner, he asked me does it currently pull? I said no (because it really doesn't), he said not to worry.
I'm kind of suprised that it doesn't "track left" even a little, as that's a lot more left side caster that right. However, they should have gotten more caster, overall, into the car, for straight line stability.
What are the real disadvantages of a cross caster at 1.5*?
the car "favors" one side or other, as you drive down a level, straight road
Or, is it possible they just had an inaccurate reading on the caster angles?
Anything is possible. I aligned my car at a GoodYear store, next door to where I work part time. Shortly thereafter, the tech was telling me that they were getting a few complaints from their customers after alignments, but didn't bother to get the rack re-checked
Haynes won't, I was referring to a GM factory manual
I talked to the shop owner, he asked me does it currently pull? I said no (because it really doesn't), he said not to worry.
I'm kind of suprised that it doesn't "track left" even a little, as that's a lot more left side caster that right. However, they should have gotten more caster, overall, into the car, for straight line stability.
What are the real disadvantages of a cross caster at 1.5*?
the car "favors" one side or other, as you drive down a level, straight road
Or, is it possible they just had an inaccurate reading on the caster angles?
Anything is possible. I aligned my car at a GoodYear store, next door to where I work part time. Shortly thereafter, the tech was telling me that they were getting a few complaints from their customers after alignments, but didn't bother to get the rack re-checked
I've got the shop manual for my 99 Camaro and the caster should be at least 4*, the range is 4* to 6*, and the cross caster range is -.7* to .7*.
These specs should also apply for your 97, but I could be wrong.
These specs should also apply for your 97, but I could be wrong.
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Thanks everyone. I drove it for a while, and I'm gonna leave it alone for now since it still drives great.
But yeah, I originaly took it in because it was slightly drifting to the left. After the alignment, no more drifting or pulling, steering effort is equal left or right, drives straight all the time, etc. Even though the numbers make it look like it's off, I'm beginning to think it isn't. Plus it was a laser alignment, I think the tech based it on how the car feels and knew just what to do to correct the "drifting" issue.
EDIT 1-26-10 -- Just had it on the highway again at 65mph, straight-line tracking was perfect, no excessive play in the wheel at all. Definitely leaving it alone now...
But yeah, I originaly took it in because it was slightly drifting to the left. After the alignment, no more drifting or pulling, steering effort is equal left or right, drives straight all the time, etc. Even though the numbers make it look like it's off, I'm beginning to think it isn't. Plus it was a laser alignment, I think the tech based it on how the car feels and knew just what to do to correct the "drifting" issue.
EDIT 1-26-10 -- Just had it on the highway again at 65mph, straight-line tracking was perfect, no excessive play in the wheel at all. Definitely leaving it alone now...
Last edited by Jeff 97 Formula; Jan 27, 2010 at 06:20 AM.
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Ok, decided to have them reset my toe since the steering has felt numb with the toe-in at 0.15. It's now at 0.03 and much tighter (feels more like before the alignment).
But, I still have the same crazy cross-caster (and yes it still drives perfectly straight with no shaking, even at highway speed), and am wondering if this will cause problems in the rain.
But, I still have the same crazy cross-caster (and yes it still drives perfectly straight with no shaking, even at highway speed), and am wondering if this will cause problems in the rain.