Types of rear LCA
10-10-2010, 06:19 PM
#1
Types of rear LCA I looked at a vendors website today to see what's available LCA wise as my Mac LCA's look like the bushings have torn. Well, talk about options! My questions are: how much lighter are chromoly (SP?) - is it worth paying $40 extra? Why would I need adjustable ones? Poly rides smoother than rod ends? Rod ended ones articulate more (and cost more!) but do I really NEED them? Are rod ended heavier - hence the chromoly option? Any personal experiences and/or advice is welcome!
10-10-2010, 06:48 PM
#2
I looked at a vendors website today to see what's available LCA wise as my Mac LCA's look like the bushings have torn. Well, talk about options! My questions are: how much lighter are chromoly (SP?) - is it worth paying $40 extra? Why would I need adjustable ones? Poly rides smoother than rod ends? Rod ended ones articulate more (and cost more!) but do I really NEED them? Are rod ended heavier - hence the chromoly option? Any personal experiences and/or advice is welcome!
Adjustable are desirable if you are running large tires and need to recenter in the wheel well.
Poly is a poor choice in any control arm. Ask yourself, if rubber articulates well, and rod ends articulate better, why would something that resists that required articulation, a lot more than rubber, be an 'upgrade'? Poly has it's place, where ever you want to remove compliance, motor mounts, certain frame type mounts, etc.
As far as rod ended control arms being heavier, it depends. In general I haven't found them to be heavier, LG made aluminum LCA's that have rod ends, and they are definitely lighter. I have them, but it's doubtful you'll notice the difference.
10-10-2010, 07:01 PM
#3
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there are lots of options and it really comes down to what the purpose of the car is, what you want out of the car, and your budget... i would get atleast a single adjustable lca no matter what, double adjustable if your budget allows it for the ease of adjustment... if you ever swap rear ends you will most likely need adjustable lcas to get the thrust angle set, and if it is already off then they will allow you to correct this... if you get non-adjustables your stuck with where your rear end is... i don't think you would need chromoly unless it was a high hp drag car or a dedicated auto-x car, mild steel does fine for most of us... poly bushings are fine for a drag only car, since you are only going in a straight line there is no need for articulation... poly will also do fine on a daily driver that never sees any extreme cornering and tend to be quieter than a rod end... personally i like the new rotojoints from umi... they will allow the lca's to articulate if needed and don't make much more noise, if any at all, than poly bushings... i have double adjustables lcas and phb in mild steel with rotojoints on my car and after 500 miles or so i haven't noticed any more noise than i did with my factory parts... the only thing i did notice was an occasional click when initially going in reverse which is probably due to the joints on the lcas, but to me that is nothing to be concerned about
10-10-2010, 07:20 PM
#4
Thanks for the quick responses! This car is recreation - use only and I have Konis with strano springs. I recently upgraded to these parts from the SLP Bilstein package for performance reasons. I felt the handling needed to be sharpened up. That being said, I noticed the Mac LCA (pre Strano stuff) made suspension impacts more harsh than the stock ones (which I still have with almost no miles on them) so going to something even more harsh (on sharp bumps) is not what I'm after. I would like something better for sure but this car is not taken to the track, but definitely my interest in this car is not straight line only! I'm stock except for the usual bolt ons and the prev mentioned susp goodies.
10-11-2010, 08:50 AM
#5
You might be best with reinstalling the factory control arms and seeing how that works for you. If the MAC's are too harsh for you most other brands would be as well, assuming MAC is using polyurethane bushings in there control arms.
If you do decide to get new control arms look for something with a spherical end or an end that rotates. Polyurethane bushings on both ends may bind some and based on the Koni/Strano set up you have you would be looking for more handling.
We offer a spherical joint called a Roto-Joint, designed and built by UMI and installed in many of our items. Here is a good alternative control arm set that offers ride comfort while increasing performance- www.umiperformance.com/2033
If you have any questions I will be glad to help. Thanks!
Ryan
If you do decide to get new control arms look for something with a spherical end or an end that rotates. Polyurethane bushings on both ends may bind some and based on the Koni/Strano set up you have you would be looking for more handling.
We offer a spherical joint called a Roto-Joint, designed and built by UMI and installed in many of our items. Here is a good alternative control arm set that offers ride comfort while increasing performance- www.umiperformance.com/2033
If you have any questions I will be glad to help. Thanks!
Ryan
10-11-2010, 12:47 PM
#6
This is why I love some of these venders on here. Most businesses just look to sell you something. Between UMI and Strano you will get THE most honest answers (as I've seen) and the best product for what you're trying to do. Communicate with these guys and don't just go by the product info online. Good luck with your build and have fun!
10-11-2010, 01:27 PM
#7
The UMI product shown was definitely one of the strong finalists in my research. Definitely handling is what im after. The hard hits with the Mac stuff may be due to the bushing material, but the torn stuff squeezing out the side looks like rubber(?). The body of the arm is heavy (very!) boxed steel so they don't flex at all, I guess. What does bushing bind feel like, and is an LCA bushing more likely to flex at the axle end or the body end (I understand the reasoning behind the poly on the body end)? BTW, thanks for the informative and speedy responses. I did entertain the idea of reinstalling the original stuff but I want to upgrade when I go to the trouble of putting stuff on- as easy as they are to install!
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10-11-2010, 03:13 PM
#8
What's most important, how it looks, handles, or rides? Bind is just what it sounds like, necessary movement is restricted. Harshness you'll notice first, but followed by noises, like squeaks, and then handling problems like oversteer if you really get in to it.
My personal feeling is you should do some more entertaining, and put the stockers back in with fresh rubber, since this sounds like a "spirited driving-street car". Otherwise the arms with rotojoints would be a performance upgrade.
Like I've said, I've run rod ends on the street, and they ride real harsh. The johnny joint (roto joints, and del-sphere) types are supposed to be more street friendly. Given the choice between poly and rod ends though i'll pick the latter everyday of the week, and twice on Sunday. I'd rather have a harsh ride that handles well, then just a harsh ride.
My personal feeling is you should do some more entertaining, and put the stockers back in with fresh rubber, since this sounds like a "spirited driving-street car". Otherwise the arms with rotojoints would be a performance upgrade.
Like I've said, I've run rod ends on the street, and they ride real harsh. The johnny joint (roto joints, and del-sphere) types are supposed to be more street friendly. Given the choice between poly and rod ends though i'll pick the latter everyday of the week, and twice on Sunday. I'd rather have a harsh ride that handles well, then just a harsh ride.
10-11-2010, 08:47 PM
#9
Def entertaining the roto joint stuff, haha. My old PHR had QA1 teflon rod ends and were very stout. The PHR was excellent with these but the LCAs transmit more NVH to the cabin in the first place, as you know. The rod ends when they get noisy are $12 or so each to replace but the rotos are like $40. I'll have to balance out whether the better articulation of the rotos and rebuildability (pita?) outweigh the "regular" rod ends. If the rotos are a little more forgiving on the street and have decent longevity - they can be tightened to remove some play- I may go this way. Thanks for relaying your firsthand experiences and recommendations from all posters!
