GMHTP's 6-piston CTS-V Setup
02-08-2011, 02:57 PM
#61
The 4 pistons are on national backorder. I was told from partstaxi and gmpartsdirect that they will be producing them again but no one knows when. So for now the only way to get them is if someone here on tech is selling a pair or on ebay. The ones I see on ebay must be made out of gold because their sometimes priced at over $1000 for all 4..
GM has to be making more of these, not for people like us, but for the people who actually own the CTS-V cars!
I don't get it... What happens when someone with an actual CTS-V needs a new caliper for their car for whatever reason? Is the Cadillac dealership going to be like "sorry they don't make that part for your newer and expensive car so you have no brakes anymore..."?
02-09-2011, 01:42 AM
#62
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brake bias <--a real good read for anyone interested in learning why the proper brake bias is important.
02-10-2011, 06:52 PM
#63
To me, the CTS-V 6-Piston Calipers are worth the cost over the 4-Pistons, because if I am going to have to upgrade to 18" rims, I might as well get ZR1 equivalent front Capilers. With that in mind, my stock 11.5 rear brakes (1996 z28 165k mi) are not up to the task of keeping up with the CTS-V 6-Piston front calipers. I could upgrade to the LS1 rear brakes, but since I already want to go with the MWC rear, the rear 4-Piston CTS-V Caliper are not that much cost as an upgrade.
Also, Tobin at Kore3 informed me that 6-Piston CTS-V front Calipers and a 14" front Camaro SS Rotor (to avoid odd pad wear) paired with 4-Piston CTS-V rear Calipers and a 13" Corvette Rotor provided optimal brake bias for the weight distribution of a 4th Gen Camaro. Before I read this thread I was considering setting up a spot caliper as a parking brake solution, but this concept seems like it is much simpler, more proven, and a similar cost expenditure.
Also, Tobin at Kore3 informed me that 6-Piston CTS-V front Calipers and a 14" front Camaro SS Rotor (to avoid odd pad wear) paired with 4-Piston CTS-V rear Calipers and a 13" Corvette Rotor provided optimal brake bias for the weight distribution of a 4th Gen Camaro. Before I read this thread I was considering setting up a spot caliper as a parking brake solution, but this concept seems like it is much simpler, more proven, and a similar cost expenditure.
02-11-2011, 05:33 PM
#65
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I reread the that Stoptech article last night and as I mentioned that Stoptech only upgrades the front brakes on F-bodys, then they must feel that our cars benefit from increasing the front bias as do many others on this site. Does this upgrade throw that bias to far?, well I guess we won't know until more people try it and see.
Last edited by Brakemotive; 02-11-2011 at 05:43 PM.
02-14-2011, 07:32 PM
#66
Brakemotive, what is your apprisal of the 6 piston cts-v caliper 14" rotor front and 4 piston cts-v caliper 13" rotor rear setup? Also, I have tried to pm Big_Bird_WS6, and the site says he is not able to receive pms. Does anyone have an idea were I can go to figure out if his idea is possible?
02-14-2011, 09:39 PM
#67
To me, the CTS-V 6-Piston Calipers are worth the cost over the 4-Pistons, because if I am going to have to upgrade to 18" rims, I might as well get ZR1 equivalent front Capilers. With that in mind, my stock 11.5 rear brakes (1996 z28 165k mi) are not up to the task of keeping up with the CTS-V 6-Piston front calipers. I could upgrade to the LS1 rear brakes, but since I already want to go with the MWC rear, the rear 4-Piston CTS-V Caliper are not that much cost as an upgrade.
Also, Tobin at Kore3 informed me that 6-Piston CTS-V front Calipers and a 14" front Camaro SS Rotor (to avoid odd pad wear) paired with 4-Piston CTS-V rear Calipers and a 13" Corvette Rotor provided optimal brake bias for the weight distribution of a 4th Gen Camaro. Before I read this thread I was considering setting up a spot caliper as a parking brake solution, but this concept seems like it is much simpler, more proven, and a similar cost expenditure.
Also, Tobin at Kore3 informed me that 6-Piston CTS-V front Calipers and a 14" front Camaro SS Rotor (to avoid odd pad wear) paired with 4-Piston CTS-V rear Calipers and a 13" Corvette Rotor provided optimal brake bias for the weight distribution of a 4th Gen Camaro. Before I read this thread I was considering setting up a spot caliper as a parking brake solution, but this concept seems like it is much simpler, more proven, and a similar cost expenditure.
and do you mean the 4 piston calipers from the first gen ctsv on the rear of a camaro, of the rear ones from the second gen ctsv on the rear?
02-15-2011, 09:14 AM
#68
The 13.9" Corvette Z06 rotor is generally used, but this can result in abnormal pad wear. The Camaro SS Rotor is a full 14", and thus avoids these wear issues. It does fit the 4th gen, however the center hole needs to be slightly machined.
I want to use the second generation CTS-V 6 piston calipers on the front. I have looked up up the rear 4 piston calipers for the CTS-V on the Centric site, and I can tell no difference between the first and second generation pieces. I would most likely use the first generation part, as they are cheaper, and hydraulicly identical from what I can tell.
I want to use the second generation CTS-V 6 piston calipers on the front. I have looked up up the rear 4 piston calipers for the CTS-V on the Centric site, and I can tell no difference between the first and second generation pieces. I would most likely use the first generation part, as they are cheaper, and hydraulicly identical from what I can tell.
02-21-2011, 03:16 PM
#71
To me, the CTS-V 6-Piston Calipers are worth the cost over the 4-Pistons, because if I am going to have to upgrade to 18" rims, I might as well get ZR1 equivalent front Capilers. With that in mind, my stock 11.5 rear brakes (1996 z28 165k mi) are not up to the task of keeping up with the CTS-V 6-Piston front calipers. I could upgrade to the LS1 rear brakes, but since I already want to go with the MWC rear, the rear 4-Piston CTS-V Caliper are not that much cost as an upgrade.
Also, Tobin at Kore3 informed me that 6-Piston CTS-V front Calipers and a 14" front Camaro SS Rotor (to avoid odd pad wear) paired with 4-Piston CTS-V rear Calipers and a 13" Corvette Rotor provided optimal brake bias for the weight distribution of a 4th Gen Camaro. Before I read this thread I was considering setting up a spot caliper as a parking brake solution, but this concept seems like it is much simpler, more proven, and a similar cost expenditure.
Also, Tobin at Kore3 informed me that 6-Piston CTS-V front Calipers and a 14" front Camaro SS Rotor (to avoid odd pad wear) paired with 4-Piston CTS-V rear Calipers and a 13" Corvette Rotor provided optimal brake bias for the weight distribution of a 4th Gen Camaro. Before I read this thread I was considering setting up a spot caliper as a parking brake solution, but this concept seems like it is much simpler, more proven, and a similar cost expenditure.
02-25-2011, 09:40 AM
#73
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Sorry for the delayed response...to my knowledge brake bias is not an issue on the STI Killer (though Justin can provide better insight). The front brakes are said by many to do 90% of the work, and in my experience brake bias is more of an issue in the rear when you upgrade from say a floating two-piston to a fixed four-piston. In a hard stop all of the weight goes to the front of the car and is therefore on the front tires (contact patch). At which time, if there is too much rear bias, as you might have since the factory bias was for a two-piston, it will lock up the rear brakes. We had this issue with the Wilwood front and rear kit we installed on our 2005 GTO project car, and solved it with their proportioning valve.
http://www.gmhightechperformance.com...gto/index.html
As mentioned, running a fixed caliper like the CTS-V's Brembos on a C-clip rear can be problematic, as can running C-clip eliminators on an application that sees a lot of lateral G-forces (side-loading). Hence our reluctance to install the rear brakes. However, we will be addressing this soon, so look for more edit on that in upcoming issues.
As for wheel fitment, I believe Justin tried every F-body wheel in OE's catalogue. I'd say wheel styles that were originally designed for big brakes like the C6 Z06 or ZR1 are your best shot, but aftermarket wheels like some of the ones mentioned as well as Forgeline and Weld are designed for large brakes and are pretty much guaranteed to fit. Remember it's not just overall wheel diameter that is the issue, but wheel spoke design.
http://www.gmhightechperformance.com...gto/index.html
As mentioned, running a fixed caliper like the CTS-V's Brembos on a C-clip rear can be problematic, as can running C-clip eliminators on an application that sees a lot of lateral G-forces (side-loading). Hence our reluctance to install the rear brakes. However, we will be addressing this soon, so look for more edit on that in upcoming issues.
As for wheel fitment, I believe Justin tried every F-body wheel in OE's catalogue. I'd say wheel styles that were originally designed for big brakes like the C6 Z06 or ZR1 are your best shot, but aftermarket wheels like some of the ones mentioned as well as Forgeline and Weld are designed for large brakes and are pretty much guaranteed to fit. Remember it's not just overall wheel diameter that is the issue, but wheel spoke design.
03-01-2011, 11:07 PM
#75
x 1,000!!!! Someone please find a solution for the 4th gen fbodys! I really want this upgrade for my ws6. I want it to look good with the huge brakes/rotors all around but want it to function even better!
03-02-2011, 01:10 AM
#76
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Sorry for the delayed response...to my knowledge brake bias is not an issue on the STI Killer (though Justin can provide better insight). The front brakes are said by many to do 90% of the work, and in my experience brake bias is more of an issue in the rear when you upgrade from say a floating two-piston to a fixed four-piston. In a hard stop all of the weight goes to the front of the car and is therefore on the front tires (contact patch). At which time, if there is too much rear bias, as you might have since the factory bias was for a two-piston, it will lock up the rear brakes. We had this issue with the Wilwood front and rear kit we installed on our 2005 GTO project car, and solved it with their proportioning valve.
http://www.gmhightechperformance.com...gto/index.html
As mentioned, running a fixed caliper like the CTS-V's Brembos on a C-clip rear can be problematic, as can running C-clip eliminators on an application that sees a lot of lateral G-forces (side-loading). Hence our reluctance to install the rear brakes. However, we will be addressing this soon, so look for more edit on that in upcoming issues.
As for wheel fitment, I believe Justin tried every F-body wheel in OE's catalogue. I'd say wheel styles that were originally designed for big brakes like the C6 Z06 or ZR1 are your best shot, but aftermarket wheels like some of the ones mentioned as well as Forgeline and Weld are designed for large brakes and are pretty much guaranteed to fit. Remember it's not just overall wheel diameter that is the issue, but wheel spoke design.
http://www.gmhightechperformance.com...gto/index.html
As mentioned, running a fixed caliper like the CTS-V's Brembos on a C-clip rear can be problematic, as can running C-clip eliminators on an application that sees a lot of lateral G-forces (side-loading). Hence our reluctance to install the rear brakes. However, we will be addressing this soon, so look for more edit on that in upcoming issues.
As for wheel fitment, I believe Justin tried every F-body wheel in OE's catalogue. I'd say wheel styles that were originally designed for big brakes like the C6 Z06 or ZR1 are your best shot, but aftermarket wheels like some of the ones mentioned as well as Forgeline and Weld are designed for large brakes and are pretty much guaranteed to fit. Remember it's not just overall wheel diameter that is the issue, but wheel spoke design.
http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/index.php?showtopic=7702
Hopefully this will help.
03-03-2011, 10:16 AM
#77
you guys with the brake bias questions.
the six piston set up is completely fine and will stop alot better than the four set up you only need to worry about wheel lock up from over stomping the pedal too hard so at that point you either get a bigger front tire (larger foot print), pads that bite less or don't lay all your weight on the brake pedal
the rear brakes only do 10% of the stopping and if anything you don't want them to lock up. so less rear brake is fine.
the six piston set up is completely fine and will stop alot better than the four set up you only need to worry about wheel lock up from over stomping the pedal too hard so at that point you either get a bigger front tire (larger foot print), pads that bite less or don't lay all your weight on the brake pedal
the rear brakes only do 10% of the stopping and if anything you don't want them to lock up. so less rear brake is fine.
03-03-2011, 10:22 AM
#78
Anyone doing this mod that needs rotors
let me know. I did this mod back in 09 and did away
with them boat anchor Z06 rotors which are too damm heavy and too small
and had some custom 2 piece rotors made
they are very expensive and definately not cheap
so don't pm me thinking they are like $100 each.
let me know. I did this mod back in 09 and did away
with them boat anchor Z06 rotors which are too damm heavy and too small
and had some custom 2 piece rotors made
they are very expensive and definately not cheap
so don't pm me thinking they are like $100 each.
Last edited by 69TA; 03-03-2011 at 10:36 AM.
03-04-2011, 11:56 PM
#79
you guys with the brake bias questions.
the six piston set up is completely fine and will stop alot better than the four set up you only need to worry about wheel lock up from over stomping the pedal too hard so at that point you either get a bigger front tire (larger foot print), pads that bite less or don't lay all your weight on the brake pedal
the rear brakes only do 10% of the stopping and if anything you don't want them to lock up. so less rear brake is fine.
the six piston set up is completely fine and will stop alot better than the four set up you only need to worry about wheel lock up from over stomping the pedal too hard so at that point you either get a bigger front tire (larger foot print), pads that bite less or don't lay all your weight on the brake pedal
the rear brakes only do 10% of the stopping and if anything you don't want them to lock up. so less rear brake is fine.
I'm sure if I don't touch the rear brakes and leave them stock, brake bias will be absolutely fine, and stopping WAY better than stock. Either 4 or 6 piston brembos would be a huge improvement. It's having the big brakes on the rears that cause the problems as mentioned, pad knock-back (or a dead pedal when braking hard). This is a big issue for me because I want to track my car.
03-04-2011, 11:58 PM
#80
May want to check this thread from FRRAX out for C-Clip eliminator information. Apparently someone found a set that was designed for RR/AutoX/Street use.
http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/index.php?showtopic=7702
Hopefully this will help.
http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/index.php?showtopic=7702
Hopefully this will help.