Car pushing to right.
Car pushing to right. Ive got a 2000Z28 Ive owned since it had 5,000 miles. The chassis now has 98,000. I got in a fender bender last year, cracked front bumper. Car goes to body shop, looks great. But now it pulls pretty good to the right. I had a lifetime alignment and took it in today. The tech is a mustang builder (i know i know) and he said he could barely get my frontend in spec. He suggested the bottom front A arms may need new bushings from a power steering leak I have which is also new. I probably need a new rack, it has a good bit of play in it. ANYWAY he says my rearend is a little out of whack in relation to the chassis and the rearend is whats pushing the car to the right. I swapped in a 3.73 rearend with almost no miles in the winter. I have BMR LCA's and BMR adjustable panhard bar. He said I should get adjustable upper control arms, problem is last time I was under this car I dont beleive they have upper control arms LOL, I cant get under it to refresh but I beleive its LCAs Panhard bar and torque arm, no true uppers. Does this make any sense?? Why would I need that, unless my chassis is bent?? It used to track down the road so perfect you didnt even need hands. What can I do to determine why my rearend is doing this? Ive never had any experience with something this weird. My LCA's are non adjustable. He even suggested unbolting control arms and pushing the axle as far back as I can then retorquing them. That doesnt really make sense since they arent adjustable... Is this making any sense? Where should I start trouble shooting this? My mods are in sig, whats the point of having a great motor if you cant go straight. Im so sick of this damn cars problems Im halfway tempted to sell it. Anyone have similar exp or know how I could get my rearend not pushing me off the road??
Last edited by MemphisZ28; Mar 2, 2011 at 04:21 PM. Reason: clarification
[QUOTE=
".....said I should get adjustable upper control arms...."your car has upper control arms on the front only ( none on the rear) adjustable ones on the front may/will allow the tech to do a better alignment, IF they needed
"....the bottom front A arms may need new bushings from a power steering leak ..."quite possible, oil is tough on bushings
"....probably need a new rack, it has a good bit of play in it..."if it has any play it should be repaired
".... rearend is a little out of whack in relation to the chassis and the rearend is whats pushing the car to the right......".may if the rear thrust line is off a GREAT AMOUNT,BUT normanly thrust line angle will not cause much problems other than under HARD loungh
"...suggested unbolting control arms and pushing the axle as far back as I can then retorquing them...." JUST pushing the axel back a'nt going to help, loosen the bolts will allow some slack/movement in the LCA , but loosen all 4 bolts and IF the rear thrust angle is the problem
try move the left tire forward and the right tire rearward, will be a luckey guess as to the correct amount, re tighten all 4 bolts,and hope for the best
( but I don't think it is going to fix problem)
pull may be a tire problem, just to chk for this CROSS the front tires for a short drive, IF no change then move the front back as they were and cross the rears for a short drive, ONLY cross one end at a time
good luck, Johnny
".....said I should get adjustable upper control arms...."your car has upper control arms on the front only ( none on the rear) adjustable ones on the front may/will allow the tech to do a better alignment, IF they needed
"....the bottom front A arms may need new bushings from a power steering leak ..."quite possible, oil is tough on bushings
"....probably need a new rack, it has a good bit of play in it..."if it has any play it should be repaired
".... rearend is a little out of whack in relation to the chassis and the rearend is whats pushing the car to the right......".may if the rear thrust line is off a GREAT AMOUNT,BUT normanly thrust line angle will not cause much problems other than under HARD loungh
"...suggested unbolting control arms and pushing the axle as far back as I can then retorquing them...." JUST pushing the axel back a'nt going to help, loosen the bolts will allow some slack/movement in the LCA , but loosen all 4 bolts and IF the rear thrust angle is the problem
try move the left tire forward and the right tire rearward, will be a luckey guess as to the correct amount, re tighten all 4 bolts,and hope for the best
( but I don't think it is going to fix problem)
pull may be a tire problem, just to chk for this CROSS the front tires for a short drive, IF no change then move the front back as they were and cross the rears for a short drive, ONLY cross one end at a time
good luck, Johnny
Last edited by SS SLP2; Mar 3, 2011 at 01:03 AM.
"He could barely get the car within spec"
Was the car "well within spec" before the fender bender? If so, there's more damage than was initially visible, and the car needs to go on a frame machine, to check for a bent/displaced K-menber, or tweaked unit body.
Was the car "well within spec" before the fender bender? If so, there's more damage than was initially visible, and the car needs to go on a frame machine, to check for a bent/displaced K-menber, or tweaked unit body.
this is relevant to my issues as well, though I think my problem is my steering rack. When I pull out from a stop the car about runs off the road, the steering is VERY tight. my left hand front tire has severe wear on the outside lip, the right front tire has severe wear on the inside front lip.
The car was wrecked in the rear driver's side just in front of the rearend and repaired prior to my purchase. I had a body shop look it over, said the work was sound, but they didn't fix it yet.
I have a reman. rack, tie rods, p/s pump hoses that I'm going to be putting in and trying to get an alignment.
carfax reports it as "frame damage reported" but since the car was repaired and has a valid title, I didn't think it was reported correctly. There's nothing visible underneath the car that would lead me to believe it is bent. Is it easy for these cars to become twisted from a side impact?
The car was wrecked in the rear driver's side just in front of the rearend and repaired prior to my purchase. I had a body shop look it over, said the work was sound, but they didn't fix it yet.
I have a reman. rack, tie rods, p/s pump hoses that I'm going to be putting in and trying to get an alignment.
carfax reports it as "frame damage reported" but since the car was repaired and has a valid title, I didn't think it was reported correctly. There's nothing visible underneath the car that would lead me to believe it is bent. Is it easy for these cars to become twisted from a side impact?
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Jeez.
Anything can really cause issues over time. For example, when I had my old civic, a cinderblock sized pothole really screwed with my alignment. The rear was far worse than the front. A slight degree could cause issues.
I would definitely get it checked out before you dive into replacing every component and still not getting it fixed. I dread seeing "frame damage" on carfax's. I dread carfax's in general though.
Derek
Anything can really cause issues over time. For example, when I had my old civic, a cinderblock sized pothole really screwed with my alignment. The rear was far worse than the front. A slight degree could cause issues.
I would definitely get it checked out before you dive into replacing every component and still not getting it fixed. I dread seeing "frame damage" on carfax's. I dread carfax's in general though.
Derek
Yeah the upper control arm suggestion he made on the rear made me laugh a little. These are such pretty and fast cars its a shame everything on them seems to be crap. Ive replaced almost every damn part on this car. What kind of shops can deal with a possibly bent frame? Any suggestions, im not familiar with that, Ive never had a wreck other than this, I thought they would check that when it went in for insurance repairs.. but I dont think they did (thx st farm) He showed me on his alignment computer that at FULL adjustment inward on the front control arms, it was still out of the "green" or "spec" area. He couldnt adjust it anymore. WTF would cause this?!? Never had a problem before like I said, drove perfect. I am likely going to sell it due to loss of interest in it being down under the knife more than on the road... but Id like to atleast get this figured out so I could sell.
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I sure wish I did. Unfortunately it was Firestone and they didnt give me jack. I have a potential buyer for it, hopefully I can unload it. I will call thhem and see if they can provide that. Im interested, do you all know of a shop or chain that can check for frame straightness? Like that deals with wrecks and such? I think thats my problem. Seems like everythings just shifted a little.
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Verdad Gallardo I sure wish I did. Unfortunately it was Firestone and they didnt give me jack. I have a potential buyer for it, hopefully I can unload it. I will call thhem and see if they can provide that. Im interested, do you all know of a shop or chain that can check for frame straightness? Like that deals with wrecks and such? I think thats my problem. Seems like everythings just shifted a little.
While years and mileage can cause issues, for this to happen all of a sudden and coincidently after a wreck, makes it seem a bit odd.
If the wheel took a shot, my guess is a bent knuckle.
That would explain why the alignment spec is out and the rack is loose.
Unless the chassis pickup points are bent or out of whack, I seriously doubt the rear end is the culprit of it pulling right. When some one follows you, do they see your car crabbing as it rolls?
I run a shop that does dozens of alignments a day so let me see if I can help with your problem.
First things first alot of pulls are tire related, start by crossing your two front tires, if the pull goes away great, if it pulls the other direction the tire on the side that it is pulling is bad.
Next I really need alignment specs but here we go.
In the rear of a F-body you have no factory alignment adjustments. However you mentioned you have added a adjustable panhard bar which is great this allows you to set what is called the "thrust angle" this is basically the direction the rearend is "pushing" your car, Ideally you would have 0 degrees and with a adj panhard bar you should be able to hit this. There is a factory tolerance and if need I can pull it off the machine at work tommorow.
So if you are this far you have confirmed it is not the tires and you now have your rearend pushing your car the correct way down the road. So lets move to the front end of the car. You have three angles to work with Caster, Camber and Toe.
Toe is how much the tires point in or point out, so if you were looking at your car from the sky its your tires looking like this / \ or the tires looking like this \ / . Toe CANNOT cause pull it can only cause tire wear and a crocked steering wheel.
Next up is Caster this is the struts angle in relation to the car. So if you walk to the side of the car and look at your wheel, its the struts angle forward or backwards in relation to the wheels location. This can cause pull. It can also impact the rate at which the wheel returns to straight when you let go. This could be one of the angles that he is fighting with. If it is have him set it the same on both sides and this should be removed from a issue, if he can't get them exactly the same have him set the right side (passanger) side a hair more positive and it will compensate for the road crown (the fact that the outside of the road is lower then the center). FWIW caster CANNOT cause tire wear.
Last is camber, walk around to the front of the car and look at the wheels from head on if the top is sticking out or leaning in this is camber. Camber can cause pull and its another possible source of your pull. This is another angle that can be fighting him. Camber can cause a pull and it can cause tire wear. The key to eliminating pull is getting both sides to be the same this will eliminate the pull. You also want this angle to be in spec or it could cause excessive tire wear.
After all this is set correct it won't matter if your frame is the shape of a pretzel your car WILL drive down the road straight.
First things first alot of pulls are tire related, start by crossing your two front tires, if the pull goes away great, if it pulls the other direction the tire on the side that it is pulling is bad.
Next I really need alignment specs but here we go.
In the rear of a F-body you have no factory alignment adjustments. However you mentioned you have added a adjustable panhard bar which is great this allows you to set what is called the "thrust angle" this is basically the direction the rearend is "pushing" your car, Ideally you would have 0 degrees and with a adj panhard bar you should be able to hit this. There is a factory tolerance and if need I can pull it off the machine at work tommorow.
So if you are this far you have confirmed it is not the tires and you now have your rearend pushing your car the correct way down the road. So lets move to the front end of the car. You have three angles to work with Caster, Camber and Toe.
Toe is how much the tires point in or point out, so if you were looking at your car from the sky its your tires looking like this / \ or the tires looking like this \ / . Toe CANNOT cause pull it can only cause tire wear and a crocked steering wheel.
Next up is Caster this is the struts angle in relation to the car. So if you walk to the side of the car and look at your wheel, its the struts angle forward or backwards in relation to the wheels location. This can cause pull. It can also impact the rate at which the wheel returns to straight when you let go. This could be one of the angles that he is fighting with. If it is have him set it the same on both sides and this should be removed from a issue, if he can't get them exactly the same have him set the right side (passanger) side a hair more positive and it will compensate for the road crown (the fact that the outside of the road is lower then the center). FWIW caster CANNOT cause tire wear.
Last is camber, walk around to the front of the car and look at the wheels from head on if the top is sticking out or leaning in this is camber. Camber can cause pull and its another possible source of your pull. This is another angle that can be fighting him. Camber can cause a pull and it can cause tire wear. The key to eliminating pull is getting both sides to be the same this will eliminate the pull. You also want this angle to be in spec or it could cause excessive tire wear.
After all this is set correct it won't matter if your frame is the shape of a pretzel your car WILL drive down the road straight.
I run a shop that does dozens of alignments a day so let me see if I can help with your problem.
First things first alot of pulls are tire related, start by crossing your two front tires, if the pull goes away great, if it pulls the other direction the tire on the side that it is pulling is bad.
Next I really need alignment specs but here we go.
In the rear of a F-body you have no factory alignment adjustments. However you mentioned you have added a adjustable panhard bar which is great this allows you to set what is called the "thrust angle" this is basically the direction the rearend is "pushing" your car, Ideally you would have 0 degrees and with a adj panhard bar you should be able to hit this. There is a factory tolerance and if need I can pull it off the machine at work tommorow.
So if you are this far you have confirmed it is not the tires and you now have your rearend pushing your car the correct way down the road. So lets move to the front end of the car. You have three angles to work with Caster, Camber and Toe.
Toe is how much the tires point in or point out, so if you were looking at your car from the sky its your tires looking like this / \ or the tires looking like this \ / . Toe CANNOT cause pull it can only cause tire wear and a crocked steering wheel.
Next up is Caster this is the struts angle in relation to the car. So if you walk to the side of the car and look at your wheel, its the struts angle forward or backwards in relation to the wheels location. This can cause pull. It can also impact the rate at which the wheel returns to straight when you let go. This could be one of the angles that he is fighting with. If it is have him set it the same on both sides and this should be removed from a issue, if he can't get them exactly the same have him set the right side (passanger) side a hair more positive and it will compensate for the road crown (the fact that the outside of the road is lower then the center). FWIW caster CANNOT cause tire wear.
Last is camber, walk around to the front of the car and look at the wheels from head on if the top is sticking out or leaning in this is camber. Camber can cause pull and its another possible source of your pull. This is another angle that can be fighting him. Camber can cause a pull and it can cause tire wear. The key to eliminating pull is getting both sides to be the same this will eliminate the pull. You also want this angle to be in spec or it could cause excessive tire wear.
After all this is set correct it won't matter if your frame is the shape of a pretzel your car WILL drive down the road straight.
First things first alot of pulls are tire related, start by crossing your two front tires, if the pull goes away great, if it pulls the other direction the tire on the side that it is pulling is bad.
Next I really need alignment specs but here we go.
In the rear of a F-body you have no factory alignment adjustments. However you mentioned you have added a adjustable panhard bar which is great this allows you to set what is called the "thrust angle" this is basically the direction the rearend is "pushing" your car, Ideally you would have 0 degrees and with a adj panhard bar you should be able to hit this. There is a factory tolerance and if need I can pull it off the machine at work tommorow.
So if you are this far you have confirmed it is not the tires and you now have your rearend pushing your car the correct way down the road. So lets move to the front end of the car. You have three angles to work with Caster, Camber and Toe.
Toe is how much the tires point in or point out, so if you were looking at your car from the sky its your tires looking like this / \ or the tires looking like this \ / . Toe CANNOT cause pull it can only cause tire wear and a crocked steering wheel.
Next up is Caster this is the struts angle in relation to the car. So if you walk to the side of the car and look at your wheel, its the struts angle forward or backwards in relation to the wheels location. This can cause pull. It can also impact the rate at which the wheel returns to straight when you let go. This could be one of the angles that he is fighting with. If it is have him set it the same on both sides and this should be removed from a issue, if he can't get them exactly the same have him set the right side (passanger) side a hair more positive and it will compensate for the road crown (the fact that the outside of the road is lower then the center). FWIW caster CANNOT cause tire wear.
Last is camber, walk around to the front of the car and look at the wheels from head on if the top is sticking out or leaning in this is camber. Camber can cause pull and its another possible source of your pull. This is another angle that can be fighting him. Camber can cause a pull and it can cause tire wear. The key to eliminating pull is getting both sides to be the same this will eliminate the pull. You also want this angle to be in spec or it could cause excessive tire wear.
After all this is set correct it won't matter if your frame is the shape of a pretzel your car WILL drive down the road straight.
IF I understand a" adjustable panhard bar" should be used to CENTER the axel under the frame and adjustable lower control arm are used to set
"rear thrust angle"
..."alot of pulls are tire related, start by crossing your two front tires, if the pull goes away great, if it pulls the other direction the tire on the side that it is pulling is bad."
IF you feel you have a proper alignment cross the two front only
if the pull is better OR worse ( any change - problem should be a front tire) if no change ,I would cross the two rear, if neather front or rear made a change I would think tires are not a problem, I will sure agree tires can/will be a great problem.
..."Toe is"....
I agree
...."caster"..
agree
.."camber"..
camber would have to be off quite a bit to cause much pull
.."After all this is set correct "...
I would think so also
"sedanman"
sorry to differant with you on a couple of points,I am sure you are proficient with your work
just my $0.02 Johnny
ps:check my site below for alignment info
The rear axle can be "offset" laterally, but as long as the rear wheels are 100% paralell to the front wheels, the car will run straight. IF, however, you install adjustable LCAs, and they are not set correctly, the rear axle will show a "toe" condition (one side toed in, the other toed out), which will affect both the thrust angle and the car's ability to drive straight.
