Blank rotors
03-31-2011, 12:09 PM
#61
As far as evidence to support my claims check out this paper - http://papers.sae.org/2006-01-0691
Anything Carroll Smith or Mac Tilton have written about brakes should be required reading for anyone who wants to discover truth on the topic. I had the pleasure of being taught by these two giants at the start of my career in this field and have benefited tremendously as a result. Sadly, Carroll has been gone for a few years, but Mac is still around, stirring the pot every now and then!
Chris
03-31-2011, 04:03 PM
#64
And there you have it folks.....to me it all looks reasonable.
Thanks to Chris and Brakesmotivational for the info.
A thread to learn from. Contrary to what we often see sometimes around here.
Blanks are great but there is something to be said about bite, heat dissipitation, and pad surface refreshing when it comes to cross drilled....and slotting serves its purpose as well.
I like the cross drilling attributes. Not so much the slots. Altho J hooks sound good....but likely too hard on the pads.
I'll keep these things in mind.....my front blanks are factory resurfaced and wont be on for too long.
Thanks to Chris and Brakesmotivational for the info.
A thread to learn from. Contrary to what we often see sometimes around here.
Blanks are great but there is something to be said about bite, heat dissipitation, and pad surface refreshing when it comes to cross drilled....and slotting serves its purpose as well.
I like the cross drilling attributes. Not so much the slots. Altho J hooks sound good....but likely too hard on the pads.
I'll keep these things in mind.....my front blanks are factory resurfaced and wont be on for too long.
04-01-2011, 08:19 PM
#65
The point that keeps getting glossed over is the reason why exotic brakes don't have any "real world" benefit on a street driven car.
If you are driving your car to the point of over-heating and trashing brake parts on the street, then you are an idiot.
There is a time and place for it and it isn't on the street.
04-01-2011, 09:00 PM
#66
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Thanks ... I appreciate that.
The point that keeps getting glossed over is the reason why exotic brakes don't have any "real world" benefit on a street driven car.
If you are driving your car to the point of over-heating and trashing brake parts on the street, then you are an idiot.
There is a time and place for it and it isn't on the street.
The point that keeps getting glossed over is the reason why exotic brakes don't have any "real world" benefit on a street driven car.
If you are driving your car to the point of over-heating and trashing brake parts on the street, then you are an idiot.
There is a time and place for it and it isn't on the street.
04-02-2011, 01:44 AM
#67
The point that keeps getting glossed over is the reason why exotic brakes don't have any "real world" benefit on a street driven car.
If you are driving your car to the point of over-heating and trashing brake parts on the street, then you are an idiot.
There is a time and place for it and it isn't on the street.
If you are driving your car to the point of over-heating and trashing brake parts on the street, then you are an idiot.
There is a time and place for it and it isn't on the street.
Even today, I occasionally see Suburbans hauling trailers coming down the mountain from Big Bear with the brakes nearly on fire. They get to the bottom and creep through the red light at 1mph with both feet planted on the brake pedal as they can't stop. Electric trailer brakes don't work at low speeds. Yes, driving style has a lot to do with it, but sometimes people also need better parts to choose from.
We must remember that OE engineers are limited by very strict budgets, so they are not free to specify whatever they want on production vehicles. They choose the best they can, given the constraints -- and then the cost-down engineers start hacking that back after a year or two of production. I don't see a single car on the current market (under US$80k) with really good brakes. They may be adequate for many, but serious improvements can definitely be made in this category, especially if planning to take part in a few track day events every year.
Chris
04-02-2011, 05:07 AM
#68
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I agree with you that there are some situations where better than stock brake components are ideal on the street, but not in an F-body...
IMO, a stock LS1 F-body has sufficient brakes for just about any kind of situation you may run into on the street. If you REQUIRE better components on the street because you are outdriving the stock brakes, then I agree with Mitch.. You are an idiot.
The flipside of that coin is that I don't blame anyone for wanting the best stopping components on their car, even if it only sees the street.. There is a lot to be desired over the stock stuff, and stopping shorter is always better than stopping longer..
IMO, a stock LS1 F-body has sufficient brakes for just about any kind of situation you may run into on the street. If you REQUIRE better components on the street because you are outdriving the stock brakes, then I agree with Mitch.. You are an idiot.
The flipside of that coin is that I don't blame anyone for wanting the best stopping components on their car, even if it only sees the street.. There is a lot to be desired over the stock stuff, and stopping shorter is always better than stopping longer..
04-02-2011, 12:40 PM
#69
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Well folks.. wow.. I didn't think this thread would come to this, I just wanted a couple blank rotor suggestions, but thanks to all for your input. There is lots of good info here.
04-02-2011, 09:14 PM
#71
The difference in initial bite is well quantified, but some drivers just don't feel it. But that doesn't mean it is not there -- it just means that some drivers are more sensitive to braking g-forces than others. I've worked with all types of professional drivers from rally to circle track to Indycar and NASCAR. A few of them could not feel the difference, but most of them easily could.
Chris
04-02-2011, 09:46 PM
#73
Those may (or may not) be Brembo blanks, but they certainly are not finished Brembo Sport Rotors. Keep in mind Brembo outsources about 25% of their OE replacement rotor business, so outside factories are doing that work. More and more of the rest are being done by Brembo in low-cost labor countries. Many part numbers are still good quality, but many others are just not the same as they used to be. It's not easy to fool someone who has bought many tens of thousands of rotors from Brembo over the years.
Regardless, that machining done on those blanks clearly ranks that "manufacturer" in the amateur category. You just cannot use any results from those pieces and extrapolate them out to somehow also include quality drilled rotors. Apples and oranges.
Chris
Regardless, that machining done on those blanks clearly ranks that "manufacturer" in the amateur category. You just cannot use any results from those pieces and extrapolate them out to somehow also include quality drilled rotors. Apples and oranges.
Chris
04-02-2011, 10:12 PM
#74
Those may (or may not) be Brembo blanks, but they certainly are not finished Brembo Sport Rotors. Keep in mind Brembo outsources about 25% of their OE replacement rotor business, so outside factories are doing that work. More and more of the rest are being done by Brembo in low-cost labor countries. Many part numbers are still good quality, but many others are just not the same as they used to be. It's not easy to fool someone who has bought many tens of thousands of rotors from Brembo over the years.
Regardless, that machining done on those blanks clearly ranks that "manufacturer" in the amateur category. You just cannot use any results from those pieces and extrapolate them out to somehow also include quality drilled rotors. Apples and oranges.
Chris
Regardless, that machining done on those blanks clearly ranks that "manufacturer" in the amateur category. You just cannot use any results from those pieces and extrapolate them out to somehow also include quality drilled rotors. Apples and oranges.
Chris
04-05-2011, 06:45 PM
#75
Those may (or may not) be Brembo blanks, but they certainly are not finished Brembo Sport Rotors. Keep in mind Brembo outsources about 25% of their OE replacement rotor business, so outside factories are doing that work. More and more of the rest are being done by Brembo in low-cost labor countries. Many part numbers are still good quality, but many others are just not the same as they used to be. It's not easy to fool someone who has bought many tens of thousands of rotors from Brembo over the years.
Regardless, that machining done on those blanks clearly ranks that "manufacturer" in the amateur category. You just cannot use any results from those pieces and extrapolate them out to somehow also include quality drilled rotors. Apples and oranges.
Chris
Regardless, that machining done on those blanks clearly ranks that "manufacturer" in the amateur category. You just cannot use any results from those pieces and extrapolate them out to somehow also include quality drilled rotors. Apples and oranges.
Chris
04-05-2011, 08:14 PM
#76
they were brembo rotors, but I believe the chamfers werent up to par. Still, they cracked in areas that werent the chamfer, as well. I bedded them in properly, drove around about 20 miles, and then did some 30-160 freeway runs, getting on the brakes at 130mph.. they were done within 100 miles total. Pretty scary.. If they had come apart and taken out my aluminum wheels, i'd be screwed. The brembo blanks I replaced them with are awesome.
Chris
04-06-2011, 09:52 AM
#77
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Glad to hear you've got it sorted out. Braking hard from 130mph is some serious business, far beyond what OE rotors are sized for! They can be made to work (marginally), but you will need some additional thermal capacity (larger and thicker rotors with a curved vane core) if that is how you are normally going to use them.
Chris
Chris
04-06-2011, 11:16 AM
#78
Glad to hear you've got it sorted out. Braking hard from 130mph is some serious business, far beyond what OE rotors are sized for! They can be made to work (marginally), but you will need some additional thermal capacity (larger and thicker rotors with a curved vane core) if that is how you are normally going to use them.
Chris
Chris
04-06-2011, 11:59 AM
#79
The Z-28 is no exception. Will it brake from 130? Of course! Will it handle repeated hard braking events from that speed with very little time for cooling in between? Hell no! But neither would any other car in its price range (or a bit higher) either.
Chris
04-06-2011, 12:15 PM
#80
Originally Posted by 67RSCamaroVette
they were brembo rotors, but I believe the chamfers werent up to par. Still, they cracked in areas that werent the chamfer, as well. I bedded them in properly, drove around about 20 miles, and then did some 30-160 freeway runs, getting on the brakes at 130mph.. they were done within 100 miles total. Pretty scary.. If they had come apart and taken out my aluminum wheels, i'd be screwed. The brembo blanks I replaced them with are awesome.
they were brembo rotors, but I believe the chamfers werent up to par. Still, they cracked in areas that werent the chamfer, as well. I bedded them in properly, drove around about 20 miles, and then did some 30-160 freeway runs, getting on the brakes at 130mph.. they were done within 100 miles total. Pretty scary.. If they had come apart and taken out my aluminum wheels, i'd be screwed. The brembo blanks I replaced them with are awesome.
But this is all starting to get really subjective upon subjective.