slikrider20

iTrader: (9)

I just got done installing my new rotors/pads that i got for my 98 Z28. I've only done the fronts for now.

Anyways, i had a HELL of a time compressing the pistons back far enough to get the pads on. On one side, somehow one of the pistons was compressed completely differently than the other one. I unscrewed the bleeder screws and took the cap off the master before i changed the brakes. I go to start up my car and i have no brakes at all in the front, just in the back. The pedal pushes to the floor with no resistance at all. When the car is off, the pedal becomes firm.

Is it possible both of my calipers are stuck and not allowing the brakes to push against the rotor? I don't get why they were so hard to compress in the first place. It doesn't feel like i'm getting any brakes from either side in the front.

Empatho

iTrader: (16)

Did you bleed all the air out?

slikrider20

iTrader: (9)

I have not. Is it possible my brakes don't work at all because of air in the lines? I'm waiting on my buddy to get home to bleed.

Does this sound right:

Have buddy pump brakes several times, then hold it to the floor. Unbolt bleeder screw until all liquid comes out, screw back shut, tell buddy to let go of brake. Is that the correct procedure? Also, do i need to bleed the rear brakes since i didn't even touch those? I also need to find some sort of tube i can hook up to the bleeder screw....don't think i have anything here.

rbaksi

iTrader: (2)

Yes brakes wont work with air in them. You should bleed the rear brakes as well and make sure you dont empty the master cylinder otherwise you're back where you started with air in the lines

slikrider20

iTrader: (9)

I'll try this tomorrow and keep this thread updated. Nothing can ever go easy can it.

SVThuh

iTrader: (2)

It can if you dont open the bleeders while compressing the pistons.. No harm in using an old pad and a big C-Clamp and compressing them that way. Both pistons compress evenly and you dont introduce any air into the lines.

Bleed the brakes.. Use the procedures in this link: http://stoptech.com/tech_info/wp_how...edbrakes.shtml and report back.. Unless something is seriously wrong, you should get your brakes working again just by PROPERLY bleeding the system.

SS SLP2

iTrader: (8)

just gravity bleed the fronts, then slowly pump the petal only 1/2 strokes several times untill you feel restiance ( do this without starting car )
Johnny

Brakemotive

iTrader: (73)

Give the bleeding procedure below a shot and see if it helps.

PLEASE NOTE: ALL VEHICLES ARE DIFFERENT. THE PROCEDURE BELOW IS INTENDED AS A GENERAL GUIDE AND IS NOT A SUBSTITUTE FOR THE VEHICLE SERVICE MANUAL WHICH SHOULD BE REFERENCED THROUGHOUT THE PROCESS. THE IMPORTANCE OF PROPER BRAKE FUNCTION CANNOT BE OVERSTATED! IF YOU ARE UNSURE OF YOUR ABILITY TO PROPERLY PERFORM THIS PROCEDURE – STOP – AND CONSULT A PROFESSIONAL TECHNICIAN.

What is “brake bleeding”? Bleeding the brakes is a process by which fluid is forced through a hydraulic system with the intent of purging trapped air and/or replacing the used fluid with new.

Why should I bleed my brakes? Liquid cannot be compressed which makes it ideal for applications like vehicle brakes where tremendous pressure must be generated. Air on the other hand is compressible and when it is introduced to a hydraulic system the result is a loss of efficiency. As a driver you feel that inefficiency as a spongy or mushy brake pedal. Inefficient or soft brakes are dangerous and need to be bled to remedy the problem.

Brake fluid is also hygroscopic by nature, which means that it absorbs water. Replacing your brake fluid regularly will ensure that moisture doesn’t build up and corrode your lines from the inside out. Rust can also clog the small orifices in the system which can cause stuck calipers, non-functioning calipers, clogged proportioning valves and other issues. Moisture in the lines also poses a problem because of its 212* F boiling point. Brake fluid can easily exceed 300*F during normal operation which boils water and creates vapor pockets in the fluid.

For the above reasons, it is good practice to bleed your brakes during routine brake service and flush the system at least every two years as part of your normal vehicle maintenance. More aggressive drivers should bleed the brakes annually and racers should bleed their brakes before every event.

Please note that you will require an assistant for the bleeding process.

Tools needed:
Nitrile gloves
Safety Glasses
Flare nut wrench
An assistant
Extra fluid (1 pint to top off, 2 quarts for a full flush)
Brake Cleaner
Shop rags or towels
A length of 3/16” ID hose
A disposable bottle for capturing old fluid

Put on your safety glasses and gloves and refer to your vehicles service manual for the proper lifting and support techniques. Once the vehicle is supported properly remove all four wheels to gain access to the brake calipers. The bleeder screws are always located at the top of the caliper and are usually covered with a rubber cap. Most vehicles only have one bleeder screw per caliper, however some high performance multi piston calipers may have two or more.

WARNING! – BRAKE FLUID IS VERY CAUSTIC AND WILL LIFT VEHICLE PAINT LIKE CHEMICAL STRIPPER. TAKE GREAT CARE TO AVOID SPILLS OR DRIPS AND IF IT COMES IN CONTACT WITH YOUR PAINT AT ANY TIME REMOVE IT QUICKLY AND CLEAN THE AREA THOUROUGHLY.

Before you go any further, locate your vehicles brake fluid reservoir (usually atop the master cylinder) and check the fluid level. Make sure the fluid is at the MAX fill line and monitor the fluid level throughout the bleeding process to ensure it does not dip below the MIN fill line. If the fluid in your reservoir goes empty while you’re bleeding the brakes, it will complicate the process and require a more involved procedure to correct the problem. So pay attention and check it often!

You always want to bleed the lines starting with the caliper furthest from the master cylinder and work your way forward. On most cars the process goes; RR, LR, RF,LF. Starting with the first caliper, place the flare nut wrench of the proper size over the bleeder screw and attach the hose. Secure the waste container and run the end of your hose to it. Now ask your assistant to enter the vehicle and turn the key to the II position (don’t start the car).
A traditional two person bleeding procedure relies on good communication and timing to go smoothly. Instruct your assistant to depress the pedal several times then hold it down. Your assistant should give an audible confirmation once the pedal has been fully depressed. Then open the bleeder screw a quarter to half turn briefly and let the fluid fill the attached hose. If your system has air in it you will see bubbles come out with the fluid as well. The bleeder screw should only be in the open position for a brief moment. As pressure drops the flow will slow down, as it slows close the bleeder screw. After you have snugged the bleeder screw (don’t over tighten!) tell your assistant to release the brake pedal. Stress to your assistant the importance of not releasing the pedal before you give confirmation that the bleeder is closed. Doing so will draw a large amount of air in to your system making your job more difficult. Observing the fluid as it comes out for any sediment or debris will give you an idea of the condition of your brake lines, ideally you don’t want to see any. Repeat the process until air bubbles are no longer visible. If you are flushing your system, continue till the fluid turns clear or the color of the new fluid being used.

Work your way around the vehicle one caliper at a time until all air or old fluid has been purged. Use some brake cleaner and a towel to wipe any spilled brake fluid off your calipers and cover the bleeder screws with the rubber caps you removed earlier.

Do a final check on your fluid level and cap off the reservoir. You can now replace your wheels and lower the vehicle. Be sure to tighten your lug nuts to the proper torque and in the proper sequence (progressive star pattern).

Start the vehicle and while in park/neutral depress the brake pedal. After a couple pumps the pedal should feel nice and firm. Check for leaks at the calipers and if everything looks good perform a couple low speed stops to ensure the brakes are functioning properly.

Congratulations, you now have a properly bled brake system that will provide confident, consistent and reliable stopping until your next service interval!

slikrider20

iTrader: (9)

Well i bled the front brakes, and now i have brakes again, except my right caliper is shot i think. I had problems with it before, where one of the pistons was compressed but the other wasn't compressed at all. The tire on side of this caliper doesn't spin at all. I took the caliper completely off and pumped the brake, and one of the pistons stays completely pushed out even with the foot off the brake. Does this mean my caliper is fried?

slikrider20

iTrader: (9)

Went and got a Reman Caliper at Autozone, go to put it on and the bolt that tightens the brake line doesn't tighten. It just keeps spinning. Holy **** a 1 hour job has just turned into a 3 day job with multiple wasted trips across town. More problems to come i'm sure.

PS: Where do you guys get this hose at for bleeding the brakes? I got some tubing in the Fish section at Walmart and it wasn't big enough to go around the bleeder.

MislMan

Hardware stores such as Home Depot or Lowes should have a selection of clear tubing.

One thing to remember for future use, when attempting to push the pistons back into the caliper, make sure the lid of the master cylinder is removed. Pushing on the pistons forces the fluid to "leave" the caliper and with the lid on the master cylinder the fluid has no place to go. It will eventually expand back into the master cylinder if pressed hard enough but that takes forever. Push slowly since if you push too hard the fluid reaaches the master cylinder too quickly and it shoots up and out of the master cylinder splashing brake fluid on everything. It's best to place a rag over the master cylinder before pressing the pistons back.

Later .. Larry S.

Vexzer

iTrader: (1)

Sorry. That cracked me up -belly laugh. Not flaming you. Hope you get it all done OK. Good day -eh!

HAZ-Matt

iTrader: (8)

Yeah that is what I have used before. The last time I found some clear fuel line that was just right at the auto store. I want to say it was 3/8"... unfortunately I bought both 1/4 and 3/8 and one of them worked its just I forgot which one it was

Typically when I am just doing a pad swap I will compress the piston with an old pad on it without opening the bleeders. You want to make sure that you compress nice and steady and don't force it. And make sure you don't compress the piston in too far because it will jam. That is why the brake pad is helpful because it makes it very difficult to push the piston in too far. You may have just had a caliper that was on its way out though.

If the car is relatively level (the MC is higher than the wheel) you can easily gravity bleed it pretty easy. If you think that is slow then grab a bottle, put some brake fluid in the bottom, jam the bleeder hose in the bottom so the tip is submerged, then you can bleed them by yourself if you are careful by depressing the brake pedal. Just make sure you don't let the MC run dry. It takes a little longer than if you have an assistant, but it is a lot faster than gravity bleeding. Gravity bleeding does have the advantage that it is pretty tough to actually get air into the system as long as you are paying attention to the MC. Also, if you have enough hose, bottle, and jack stands you can gravity bleed the whole car at once.

slikrider20

iTrader: (9)

I got my new caliper installed and noticed another problem. One of my caliper slider pins is stuck. Would this explain why my wheel doesn't spin as freely as it should? The pad is pressing up against the rotor without me even touching the brakes, and i can't even turn the wheel with the tire up in the air.

I ordered a reman caliper bracket from Autozone. Can't believe they cost as much as a caliper, now i gotta wait another 3 days.

BobP

iTrader: (1)

Yes, those slider pins allow the caliper to float, and need lubed with a high temp grease anytime you service the brakes. If you get aggressive on the twisties or autocross, a stuck slider will cause pad knockback and a low brake pedal on the first pump.

So you need to remove it, make positive it is not bent, and either lube it or replace it, and lube all the other sliders while you at it, rear included!

BobP

slikrider20

iTrader: (9)

One other question. Is it completely necessary to have all 4 wheels off at the same time while bleeding? I only have 2 jackstands and can't afford anything else for awhile.

BobP

iTrader: (1)

You can get away with 1 or 2 stands but the order of bleeding depends on if you have traction control or not. According to the manual:

Without TC - RR, LR, RF, LF
With TC - RR, LF, LR, RF

So if you have TC and 2 stands, you'll need to work one corner at a time .

BobP

SS SLP2

iTrader: (8)

if you can reach the bleeder ( and do not get any fluid on your wheels)I see no reason to remove any wheels, I can bleed all 4 with wheels/tire setting on a drive on ramp
not sure that you will be able to reach bleeders with car setting on ground
Johnny

slikrider20

iTrader: (9)

Well I got everything installed and gravity bled the front brakes. Everything seems fine now except I have to push the pedal down pretty far to get the car to stop good. It stops really good once you reach this point though. Is this normal after new rotors and pads?

HAZ-Matt

iTrader: (8)

It was easier for me to do my front wheels with the wheels off, but the rears were pretty easy with them on. If you can put the rear on ramps and the front on jack stands you could just take off the fronts.