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I got some Tokico blue shocks and Vogtland's lowering springs put on my 2000 T/A and it didn't work out. Lowered by about 2" instead of advertised 1.25" and now my 3" tubes scrub at least once a day. Plus it feels like I'm beating the car apart on our city streets - no give at all in the suspension.
Any thoughts on what went wrong? These are supposed to be good springs, but now I need to change them and can't decide whether to just go back to my stocks or try something else (that again might not live up to advertised drop).
But damn, on a smooth street it is a joy to corner.....
You might want to look into strano springs. They give a relatively mild drop and are known to have good handling characteristics. Of course there are other options out there as well such as BMR.
I have Strano springs and the old style SLP headers with 3" piping. I have some issues with steep driveways, but driving around town its perfect. I actual love driving my car with Strano's now and its a killer look. It gets rid of the 4x4 look, but isn't slammed (which is what I want.) If you don't want Strano, then look at BMR. Both of those are excellent choices and will not slam your car. GL.
Vogtland makes good lowering springs, the spring rates aren't perfect for our cars but their a better spring than what a bunch of the competitors offer, and those shock(Tokico blue) are better than stock(not much), a set of Bilstein shocks would of been a better choice.
Whats your wheel well apex to ground measurements, front and rear, any before/after photos?
BTW, Most(not all) lowering springs I've seen seem to lower more that the stated amount, and the ride will be stiffer with the higher spring rates, regardless of brand.
I've Vogtland and Koni, love them very much. The rear spring rate is a bit high but I can get away with Koni. Vogtland spring is much better than Eibach or HR. Sam Strano spring IS make from the same factory as Vogtland, same design, same material, same made in Germany, just different spring rate.
You must have something wrong with your car, either installation or the parts problem. I still have at least 1" gap between the tire and fender. Not the best pic but you should get the idea how they should look like.
Thanks everyone for the advice. I can't post pics right now (can't find the usb link for the camera) but it's about 25.75" ground-to-fender apex on the front and 26.25" at back. What heights are you folks getting with your setups? Yes, Vogtland makes Strano springs, the difference in spring rate is about 20 ft-lb (Which I thought would be unimportant). I also have about 1" between the tire and fender well, but I can't even get my little finger between the axle and bump stop on the rear passenger side and it's not just a rough ride (I was prepared for that) - this thing feels like it's riding on boards. I've been to several shops and they all say they've never seen one so low or stiff.
I was wondering if there might be a problem with the installation, but what could go worng? It's not like you can put 'em in sideways or something....
I talked to BMR & they guaranteed theirs wouldn't drop more than 1.25" so I may try that. It would be nice to compare rides with someone who likes their set up and see if I'm just being a dumbass and it's as good as it's supposed to be- anybody in the Houston area?
Thanks everyone for the advice. I can't post pics right now (can't find the usb link for the camera) but it's about 25.75" ground-to-fender apex on the front and 26.25" at back.
How much weight does that supercharger kit add?
Take that into consideration, your car should be a little lower than advertised seeing that springs are made for stock weight cars...
What heights are you folks getting with your setups? Yes, Vogtland makes Strano springs, the difference in spring rate is about 20 ft-lb (Which I thought would be unimportant).
Not sure where your getting your info from...
Vogtland's are progressive with rates of 440 lb./in. - 542 lb./in. front, and 183 lb./in. - 228 lb./in. rear, Stranos are linear 550lbs/in front and 150lbs/in rear. Those rear rates are hugely different. Combine that with cheap stock replacement shocks and don't expect a good ride. Theres a reason the higher end shocks are more expensive.
OK good point. I reckon the supercharger added about 60 lbs on to the front end; the door plate says it was 3900 lbs stock, so I wouldn't have thought it would make much difference. I guess I mis-quoted the difference between the Vogtland's and the Strano rates (I got it from a lady on the phone at Vogtland months ago) - but in my ignorance it didn't sound like that much difference to me.
I thought progressive springs were intended to provide more give in the ride (less rough)? The Strano's were portrayed as more extreme performance - not for a daily driver like I have. I was just looking for something that would corner better and still be able to get in my modestly humped driveway with out polishing my headers every time. And be able to smooth out small bumps that I don't even feel on my bike.
So has anyone else achieved that without going to the premium level shocks and springs?
You're on the right track about progressive springs riding better - initially. The softer rate, by nature, will ride "better". Consider this- you're driving on a street and the tire dips into a fairly deep pot hole. The wheel goes down to the bottom of it then "hits" the other side and accelerates very quickly up. If you've got shocks valved primarily for ride(ie "softer" setting) the wheel velocity upwards will be faster than a harder/stiffer setting. When the harder/higher spring rate is encountered the shock may not be able to stop the resulting "crash" sound or bottoming out due to the wheel speed. Also, the shocks may still feel floaty. Now, if your shocks are valved for the stiffer portion of the spring, you have already given up the ride quality you wanted and really the linear rate may have been better after all. Konis may reduce some of these neg effects because of the more aggressive valving. It's been said before, best ride - stock springs (linear btw) with Konis set up appropriately.
OK good point. I reckon the supercharger added about 60 lbs on to the front end; the door plate says it was 3900 lbs stock,
The door sticker shows gross vehicle weight, that means the car fully loaded with 4 people and luggage - this is the maximum weight the car was designed to handle. BTW I think its closer to 4200lbs on the sticker.
Our cars weigh around 3400-3600lbs w/o driver.
There was another thread like this recently with a supercharged car that was complaining about front ride height. I think he quoted the kit to weigh closer to 100lbs for him. Regardless since you have progressive springs that extra weight is going to compress those lower rate coils more.
I thought progressive springs were intended to provide more give in the ride (less rough)?
In theory they could, most dont though.
The Strano's were portrayed as more extreme performance - not for a daily driver like I have.
Extreme performance doesn't always mean rough ride. The Vogtland rear springs are significantly stiffer than the Stranos (or most other springs for that matter), they will definitely ride rougher in the back. Those springs are not supposed to be "comfortable cruising" springs - if you want that look into less extreme drops like SLP's 1" drop springs or stock, or if you want a little lower Stranos like already mentioned.
I was just looking for something that would corner better and still be able to get in my modestly humped driveway with out polishing my headers every time. And be able to smooth out small bumps that I don't even feel on my bike.
If you don't mind stock height then stock springs and bilstiens or Konis preferably - I can vouch stock springs and Konis = great handling/grip/control while also a better ride than stock shocks.
So has anyone else achieved that without going to the premium level shocks and springs?
Most things are more expensive for a reason, and its not just the quality of materials used but how they work, and the size of things (shock piston size for example).
OK, thanks again everybody. I'm convinced to get some Koni's (the yellow sports, right?) But I wonder whether to try them with my stock springs or look for somethig else. I don't know what the stock rates are, but I read that the 1LE were 360 front and 130-180 back, and I also read somewhere that my WS6 springs are the same - any idea where to confirm that? After the discussions here I was getting the impression I might want something stiffer up front and softer in back than the 1LE specs. JD AMG, you say you like your set up so do you know if they are they the same shocks as stock on my WS6?
in your situation, what i would do would be to get the Koni 3/4 or 4/4 shocks (3/4 if you don't mind disconnecting the rear shocks to adjust them, or 4/4 if you'd rather have them adjustable without disconnecting them).....then put those on the car with your stock springs.
this will allow you to feel how changing only the shocks can make a HUGE difference in the quality of the ride.
then you could either do the front perch/rear heater hose mod to drop it by around 5/8" to 3/4" on all 4 corners, or cut the stock springs 1/2 a coil at a time to get exactly the height you want. just make sure that if you cut the springs, don't use a torch....use a cutoff wheel or a bandsaw with a metal-cutting blade on it, and take it slow so it doesn't get too hot and alter the spring rate (which will cause sag later on). and FYI, it's not recommended to do the front perch mod in conjunction with a shorter front spring, especially if the springs don't have a much higher spring rate than stock.
then if you want better handling later on, you could try some different sway bars and/or 3-point subframe connectors to stiffen up the chassis some and reduce the sway of the car, or you could get some different springs that have a higher rate, then just adjust your shocks accordingly for the drop/spring rate.
But I wonder whether to try them with my stock springs or look for somethig else. I don't know what the stock rates are, but I read that the 1LE were 360 front and 130-180 back, and I also read somewhere that my WS6 springs are the same - any idea where to confirm that?
Supposedly some early WS6's got 1LE springs, thats what I've read but I dont know how true that is. The bigger question is do you mind the stock ride height? Because if you don't mind the large wheel gap you will have the best riding spring.
After the discussions here I was getting the impression I might want something stiffer up front and softer in back than the 1LE specs. JD AMG, you say you like your set up so do you know if they are they the same shocks as stock on my WS6?
Same springs do you mean? I remember Sam saying something about this, you may want to call him, maybe you can check the stock springs for some kind of tag or marking. Regardless stock non-1LE springs are great for ride quality and when paired with good shocks like Konis will actually handle really well for what they are, you will get great balance and control, just more body roll and less stiffness. I ran that setup and absolutely loved it.
Originally Posted by pewter2002
Front SS/WS6 were around 292 lb/inch, rears were 97 lb/inch both linear rates. I'm not so confident on my recollection of the rear rate, sorry.
I know this is a very old thread however, I wanted to chime in. I too have vogtland progressive rate springs on my car along with billstein shocks, I LOVE the stance, however, for everyday driving these things are way too dang stiff. I don't mind the front spring rate but the rear of the car feels like it's on rail road tracks, and not because of handling, but because of how rough they ride.
raytx1, what's your rear tire pressure, and what shocks do you have..?
I'd keep the rear psi in the 30-32 range.
Also, if you have rear bump stop spacers, remove them.
Other options a full set of Strano, or BMR springs.
Less costly options are BMR or Hotchkis rear springs.
raytx1, what's your rear tire pressure, and what shocks do you have..?
I'd keep the rear psi in the 30-32 range.
Also, if you have rear bump stop spacers, remove them.
Other options a full set of Strano, or BMR springs.
Less costly options are BMR or Hotchkis rear springs.
I'm running billstein shocks, and for the tire pressure I keep it around 28-30.
As for the bump stops, well they pretty much aren't there anymore I admit, they broke off and I haven't replaced them.
I've already decided I'm going to go with Strano springs, they may not have as mean of a stance but I'll enjoy the car more because they don't "slam" the ride height
05-27-2011, 09:45 AM
help - vogtland springs too low 
