Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

Not Steeda, Saleen.... and that was a ****-poor bolt.

The frame, the part that you guys seem to be all worried about weights very little. In fact it's about 8 pounds as I recall. And the roll center height stays with that arrangement vs. moving up and down with the other setup.

Also, it's not easy to make it fit under there. This is not a truck, there isn't lots of room. But, there is always someone who wants to build something. If you offered him a nice house for 35k, he'd try and build something similar because the materials might be less, ignoring time, effort, and the fact that someone who knows what they are doing already has done it. I admire the independent spirit. I think it's a little short-sighted, but I admire the spirit.

TAEnvy

iTrader: (2)

Well Sam by your logic I dont see why you ever came out with your sway bars/ springs. Someone had already done it.

Wait you wanted a better product, correct?

Well I want a watts link and I can build one for considerably cheaper, which makes it BETTER for me. Im a broke college student and I have a bunch of other stuff to poor money into besides a pre-made watts link.

If nobody ever bothered to make something that was already made we'd still be driving model Ts and everything would cost way more than it does now. Think about it.

Element

iTrader: (5)

What's the total cost of materials you're looking at, including prep and powder coating?

TransWS6Am

iTrader: (41)

hmmmmmm $500 for a off the shelf watts link that fits perfect, or let me try to rig a watts link up myself in a space limited f-body for who knows how much by the time it's all said and done, and who knows how well it will hold up. I'll take the $500 off the shelf watts link and peace of mind please! Oh wait I did!

Why do you even want a watts link? Do you road race your car? I'll tell you the only reason I got a watts link is to have more room for true duals. I just take the very limited advantages on the street as a bonus.

MeentSS02

iTrader: (11)

If you are a broke college student, the last thing you should be worrying about is modding your car. Think about it.

And the sway bar/springs comparison is a pretty poor one. There wasn't a balanced set of hollow sway bars in the sizes Sam wanted when he pursued his own set, nor were there springs that had the correct drop height and spring rate that he wanted. While there are a few different ways you can toss a watts link on an f-body, the performance will likely be the same if not worse - I certainly can't see it being better than what Midwest and Fays2 already offer. You might be able to make something for less, but I have a feeling you'll spend more time and money making it than you'd ever care to admit, and we'll probably never hear about it when you fail to make good on your promise.

I was a dumb college student at one time too, and I thought I knew more than most. Sam may seem set in his ways and can even come off a bit harsh at times, but if you'd take a second and listen instead of spouting off, you'd probably realize that he speaks from experience and is trying to save you some trouble. Or don't. I don't care either way.

libertyforall1776

iTrader: (2)

Does your watts ever rub or impact your true duals? Ever used some marking wax or similar to ensure that it doesn't? Since if it does not ever touch, that should be something others will want to know... Is the MWC version a diff cover mount implementation?

ChrisRZ28

If you're that broke have you ever thought about lowering the PHB? Here's what I did...if you're interested. I researched online (Frrax.com) and looked at a bunch of pictures so I had an idea of what needed to be done. I bought the axle bracket from Summit, made the body side bracket from scratch, which saved me some money. The tricky part is the support tube that goes from the axle bracket to the axle tube. That needs to be welded on also. Go to Frrax.com and search. I also have an adjustable, double rod ended PHB that I 'made' myself. You can find details on Frrax about making a PHB yourself, or you can just buy one. After I got finished with the install I took my car for a drive and I could tell right away the difference the lowered PHB made. The thing is, if you took two Camaros, one with a Watts and the other with a lowered PHB, I doubt most people could tell the difference between the two on the street. I understand the need for adjustablity that the Watts gives you for racing...but on the street? I guess some people like the wow factor when they look under their car...? How many people actually adjust their Watts on a street only daily driver? My guess is not to many. That's why I can't understand why people are willing to spend so much money on a Watts for a car that's never raced and only driven on the street. I don't race and I don't drive my car at 10/10ths on the street. I'm kind of a set-it-and-forget-it guy myself so the lowered PHB works for me. Their are some extra holes for adjustment on the brackets and I've used them but for the most part I don't move the PHB. It's in the bottom holes right now. The welding is a sticking point for some. But in the end it's your car and your money. But this is what has worked for me. And it's a hell of alot cheaper then a Watts.

TransWS6Am

iTrader: (41)

Lol, there is like 3" between the pipe and watts link at the closest point. Seeing as how the exhaust and watts link does not move with the suspension, aside from watts link bars them self which have a good 6" or more of clearance. I'm confident they will never touch.

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

I see this point was made just above... and I'm going to reiterate that. Comparing bars or springs isn't quite the same. Those things effect balance, wheel rate, ride, etc. The comparison you are searching for here would be comparing different PHB's, things that only do one thing. A Watts link is a lateral control device. You have ones that are fixed, others that offer adjustable Roll Centers (like a Fays2), axle mounted pivots, and frame mounted pivots (like a Fays2). I feel the adjustables ones with a frame mounted pivot is the right answer, so there is *no need* to reinvent the wheel here.

Respectfully you are only looking at the surface, not the underlying facts of how things work. You could design a car that has the gas-pedal on the left too... but why?

TAEnvy

iTrader: (2)

I get powdercoating for free and about all the fab work I will have into it will be cutting the links to fit if the supplier doesnt do it for me and welding the mounts to the axle (if I decide not to do a clamp style since I break ten bolts so often) which is also free, if all goes as planned and I have the proper clearances Im looking at under 300 dollars.

I had never heard of a lowered PHB I will look into that.

Meents my car is my hobby do you expect college students to give up everything but school and work. I'm sure as hell not going to, there is a reason Im normally at work when Im not at school, Its so I can have a little extra money once tuition and everything is paid for.

Also as I stated Sam made his parts because he wanted BETTER ones. If I can make a watts link that performs similarly for half the price that is BETTER for me. If it doesnt work, oh well, no risk no reward.

After I finish sorting out the suspension I do plan to do some road racing and autox.I havent in the past as I have used the car mostly for dig racing, so Im changing it up now.

libertyforall1776

iTrader: (2)

Thanks. If so, that's awesome. IMHO, something a redesign for the Fays 2 version could learn from...


To the OP: I say go for it -- if you have the will, drive, and resources at your disposal -- create away, but please post photos of your progress for others to learn from... Purchasing pre-made parts is a no-brainer -- creating something good from scratch, now that really takes brains and skill.

darknatexs

on the s197 mustangs, saleen uses the track bar mount and the panhard rod mount for the watts link. since this cover has 3 different mounting points, im sure this would be good to use. i can do the measurements and get it straight.

SSCamaro99_3

iTrader: (1)

I imagine I would be right in assuming, that this (in addition to the short wheelbase) contributed to their abysmal recovery characteristics once the rearend starts around.

In addition, is there a good list of cars that share the Fox-body setup.

LilJayV10

iTrader: (39)

In for pics and results. This should be good.