WhiteStallion00

iTrader: (1)

it felt "ok" when i left the dealer. Not great, but if you hadn't felt it when it was "bad", you might not notice.

At first I thought broken axle, but it was way too crazy for that and it actually felt better under acceleration. I know the problem's going to smack me right in the face when I find it, it'll be something I glanced at thinking it couldn't possibly be broken. It may actually fall down and smack me in the face the way things are going so I probably shouldn't have said that.

I didn't check the tower because i assumed (and there we have it) i'd hear banging and when I grabbed the shocks with the rearend unloaded, I couldn't budge them. I did notice as I drove down a side street and the weight shifted from side to side over a small dip in the road, that it felt like it was all spring in the rear. The weight seemed to shift quickly and unhampered. But it didn't rock, it just tilted left then back right. I could see a stuck shock giving the floating around corners feeling because that results in 0 sprint rate and no body roll. But a worn shock would let the body roll, even at low speeds. It seems like I got the floating feeling instead of body roll.

I didn't pay much attention to how far the rearend hung, but it was far enough to pull the bar off to coat everything with grease. On that note, I thought the way the front wheels hung was odd because they were straight up and down and it seems like they used to sag when lifted by the frame.

it's soaked right now (Oregon=rain) so i'm letting it drip off. If I get motivated before bed I might sneak under and take a quick peek now that I'm all but positive it's in the rear. It felt liek there was a problem at both ends, but the rearend can do that, the frontend can't make the rear feel bad, though.

NO LATERAL MOVEMENT WHEN SITTING, even when i lay a hard shoulder into the fender; that's the part that throws me and caused me to stop looking in the rear.

WhiteStallion00

iTrader: (1)

The "marble in a coffee can" sound does seem a bit louder than it used to, come to think of it. But, again, it feels better under acceleration.

1ltcap

this is gonna sound like i'm being a smart ***. i don't intend any of this like that.

stop taking your car to the dealer. dealers for the most part suck. they over charge for most everything. they pay their parts hangers.....oops.....mechanics flatrate. this means that the mechanic will only get paid a specific time for doing your alignment, regardless of how long it takes him.
talk to friends, and find a recommendation for a local mom and pop type of shop that has a good rep for doing alignments. in this instance, google can be your friend too.

that all said. stop letting it get you mad, slow down, and try to pay a little more attention to this problem. it seems as if you can easily recreate it. i've got a car dealer customer that gets all wuond up like you sound sometimes. when i can get him to calm down, i can get good answers from him, and figure the problem out for him.

does it feel as if possibly the car is being steered from the rear? as if something is shifting back there? is your car bent? are ALL of your steering components tight? what condition are your tires in?

WhiteStallion00

iTrader: (1)

1ltcap - no worries. Aside from alignments and tire changes, no-one has ever laid a wrench to her but me, and I intend to keep it that way. Went to the dealer because they were very close and convenient. I'm going to look up front to see if the alignment slipped, I know it did a couple of times when I was putting things back together. Might throw a couple of washers in. Problem is, I didn't look to see where everything was when I got it back

I got the rearend down to just the LCAs on and a jack under the pumpkin last night, couldn't go to bed without taking a look and just started tearing into it. Up to this point, nothing has been loose, bent or otherwise not exactly the way it should be. When I popped the shocks out of the lower mounts they expanded to max length (which I'm not sure but think is correct). Upper mounts tight springs in good shape, all 4 LCA bolts tight, rear bar tight, torque arm tight. I'm starting to get a real bad feeling

I SWEAR it feels like the rear is trying to come around, but now I just don't know. Might put it back together and put a friend in there while I follow with her car and watch the wheels. Hopefully it wont do anything stupid on her.

I'll admit the rear tires are bad, but I can feel this at 5mph so I can't point my finger there. Going to have my coffee then finish dropping the rearend and do one more check for cracks.

There's a bad moon rising

WhiteStallion00

iTrader: (1)

A couple of notes of importance:

1. Ride heights at mid tirewell on all 4 corners match the readings i took 4 yrs ago when i replaced the rear shocks and bushings (27-27.5")
2. in the current condition (LCAs and jack holding rear) there is no movement other than up and down. no rotational, no side to side and no lead(? meaning one side trying to get in front of the other). it all looks and feels solid.
3. There doesn't appear to be a broken axle, rotating one side rotated the other in the opposite direction with a little rotational slop but no other slop (in out, up down, etc).

WhiteStallion00

iTrader: (1)

Nothing wrong back there. Everything is in great shape, in fact. I even pulled the rotors just to be absolutely positive there was nothing wrong with the axles; all is well. I didn't actually pull the rearend out completely, left the driveshaft, brakelines and LCAs connected with the pumpkin supported. It teeter-totters nicely on the jack (springs and track bar are out) with no other movement except a little side to side because the track bar is out.

I guess I'll throw it all back together and take it out again to re-assess the feel. I swear it felt like the rearend was wandering, but I guess not. Wish I had checked the positioning of the alignment when I got it back.

Formula1996

iTrader: (7)

Bad tires can do weird things. You really should have 4 good tires on the car that match (same brand type etc). I drove a 94 buick regal with totally shot struts for over a year and they didn't really effect the handling. They made the car bounce a lot and I'm sure if I tried to do a slalom it would have been bad but really they were shot and the car never did anything dangerous. On that same car I tried to be cheap and put 2 new tires on it (car had oem tires at 77k miles in 2006) Car pulled in one direction (don't remember which). I even had an alignment done and it still pulled. after 10k miles or so I finally broke down and put 2 more new tires on it (same brand and type) and presto the car didn't pull any more.

WhiteStallion00

iTrader: (1)

I won't argue against the effect of old v new tires, and the rears are down to the bars (still have tread and no cords showing, but not something I'd take up into the hills). This is such a significant problem at even 5mph that I can't see it. I will, however, just to keep people from jumping on that bandwagon and getting distracted, rotate them up to the front once I get it all back together.

I laid under there for the longest time this afternoon, looking at every seam, weld, nut, bolt, rock mark, everything i could get to with the rear up and nose down, from all different angles just to be sure. There's nothing wrong from the tranny back.

BTW, I forgot who asked, but just as I remembered, there is a "brace" on the verts, not what I'd call an SFC, but more like a thin plate of steel (not alum) with bends, etc for strength, that mounts underneath the tailshaft. More of a bellypan than an SFC and is the reason I have SFC's on my wishlist. It's secure and, shy a couple of rock dings, in perfect shape.

I'm going back in now to put the rear back, I couldn't do it this afternoon w/o one more thorough inspection.

Also, all the body lines and gaps are just as they've always been, no evidence of a bent frame from the top or the bottom and no evidence of stress where stress shouldn't be, except, of course, the hundreds of grey hairs on my head that I swear were not there 3 weeks ago

joecar

If you got an alignment , post an image of the alignment report (showing toe/camber/caster)for front and rear).

1ltcap

it kinda makes me wish he were close to here. i'm getting new alignment equipment in the next week or so, and would be happy to have hooked his car up to see what's up.

WhiteStallion00

iTrader: (1)

Well, that's my bad for not looking at the paperwork. All I got was the receipt, no report. I figured the settings would be on there but they're not.

At this point, I'm thinking something is bound up. I can feel every pebble in the road and, earlier I mentioned that it just didn't feel "right" sitting in the driveway; I figured out what doesn;t feel right about it, it doesn't sag a bit when i get in. It used to give a little as I got in, but now it's like sitting down on a rock.

I also think that's the physics behind the floating around corners feeling. When I took it out this morning I noticed the snappiness as I slalomed down the road. The car turned, but the weight took forever to shift; I was almost about to turn back left before the rear finally decided to join me on the right, same in both directions.

I can bounce both the front and the back from the outside (standing on the turn signal opening in the front and pushing down on the furthest corners of the trunk in the rear. But, under normal cruising down the road, it feel almost solid and like i said, i can feel the smallest imperfections in the road (seems like both front and back).

Not sure what I'm going to do next. I'll take it out again and get another feel for it and decide. I still have the old stock rear shocks (I think), but I had to cut the top off the fronts to get them out of the springs.

WhiteStallion00

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, it seems like the weight isn't transferring side to side; not sure it's going front to rear on acceleration right, either. It feels like I'm on top of the road (if you've driven a dirt car you'll get what I mean, when it's not digging into the track through the turns, it skates across the surface, you can feel the difference; usually that's because the chassis is bound or bottoming out on the suspension). If I slalom real sharp I can get the weight to transfer and it will turn hard, but a medium crank on the wheel nets little to no body roll.

Bars don't get stiffer. Has anyone run w/o the sways hooked up? I'm sure it could get ugly, but how ugly? Maybe I'll unhook the front bar and take it out to see what that does.

WhiteStallion00

iTrader: (1)

I decided to take the rear LCAs off and check things out, since that was the only thing I didn't do on the rear. Everything is in working order, no binding, bushings look great, all is well.

So back to the front. I'm in the middle of pulling the shocks to check for binds. When supported under the frame and with no tires, the drivers side hangs about 3/4" lower than the passenger side, and I know the uppers and lowers on both sides have preload on them since they're cranked down tight.

Last potential clue for tonight: Not sure if this is correct or not, with stands under the frame, and all suspension in place except then front sway bar, a jack under the ball joint will lift the chassis right away; there's no give at all. This is true on both sides.

Passenger side is off, upper and lower are both tightened down so they don't move except for the flex in the bushings themselves; it takes a fair amount of pressure to move them, but that's nothing compared to what the chassis can apply.

My question is: at what position should the uppers and lowers be when tightening them down? I'd think ride height, but that would require putting a lot of pressure on an unsecured bushing and may lead to other problems if something's out of position when tightened. Is there a trick I missed? Should I tighten the shock down and lower the car until I get the lower LCA parallel with the ground (that's where both lowers are when under load) then tighten?

01 ss vert

iTrader: (1)

What was the thrust angle when you got it aligned?

joecar

Tighten the bushings at ride height with vehicle level and with vehicle weight on the axles.

joecar

Sounds like what you said, binding in front and rear. Post pics.

StraightTimeStirrups

In reading ALL of your posts I haven't read where you have used the Manual or proper tools at all. Im not saying you haven't, just that you haven't said it!

It is SO IMPORTANT to torque everything to spec that you just can't crank on it too tight! It sounds to me that all/some of your hardware has been installed way to tight and over torqued that your suspension is bound up bigtime!

Joe

WhiteStallion00

iTrader: (1)

StraightTime - I bought the maintenance manual the week after I bought the car in 2000; it's my goto source for stuff i can't find on here. Not sure what proper tools you're looking for, but, aside from having to rig my own bushing press and borrowing a sprint compressor, I didn't need anything my trusty craftsman box doesn't have in it. I hear ya on the torque, but it seems you may be hinting that everything should rotate freely; to which i say "ain't happening". Unless the bushings are supposed to spin inside their housings, tightening something down (LCAs, for example) locks the bushing and subsequently the component into place. If that's not how it should be then yeah, I've got serious issues because not a single component moves once it's been tightened down. I do use a torque wrench on places I can reach it, but I've found as things age or aftermarket parts are put in, you have to tighten things a bit more (ex: when I have solid bushings in the rear LCAs they needed more than what to book called for). Good lookin out, though; RTFM (Read The Friggin Manual) is something I preach as well

JoeCar - Any pics in particular? I took some last night of the front suspension hanging free and have them on my phone.

01 SS - I didn't get the specs, I thought they were on the receipt but they aren't, so I don't know what anything came out to

01 ss vert

iTrader: (1)

Call them. They may have saved them.

SS SLP2

iTrader: (8)

by all means get us a print out of the alignment including the thrust line settings, FIRST drive 2-3 blocks on a smooth street at LESS than 10 mph and see if the car ( front or rear ) wobbles if so you have bad tire, also be sure the PHB and the brackets where it mounts are good, you must run a rear stablizer bar with good bushings ( with no front bar is ok )
Johnny