Refreshing old suspension
Refreshing old suspension Hey all,
I'm looking to make my suspension ride a bit smoother / tighter, specifically in the rear suspension. A little history on the car, 2001 Camaro SS, installed BMR tubular Panhard and BMR boxed LCA's back in 2002. Not sure if they're poly or rubber. At the same time installed Eibach pro kit. This was at 40K mileage, car is now at 100k. The car also unfortunately sat garaged from 2007 - 2011, which seems to have caused a lot of the issues in the ride quality. The tires are also a few years old (nittos 555R).
Recently I've upgraded to Koni's and Stranos which improved the car drastically in handling, but I still feel like it didn't fix the 'play' in the rear suspension, especially around town on less smooth roads. Almost like a side to side of the rear end, kind of wobbily. I also get a bit of clunking when going over bumps from what sounds like the right rear. All these issues were present prior to the Koni / Strano install, and the new shocks / springs did help quite a bit.
I want to fix the issues, but I want to weigh my options first on what needs to be replaced. My options that I am thinking of trying are:
1. Tires
2. LCA /PHB bushings
3. Sway bar replacement
4. Subframe Connectors
4. Other
What do you all think would be the best bang for my buck based on the above scenario? If you were to replace bushings, poly or rubber?
Thanks in advance.
I'm looking to make my suspension ride a bit smoother / tighter, specifically in the rear suspension. A little history on the car, 2001 Camaro SS, installed BMR tubular Panhard and BMR boxed LCA's back in 2002. Not sure if they're poly or rubber. At the same time installed Eibach pro kit. This was at 40K mileage, car is now at 100k. The car also unfortunately sat garaged from 2007 - 2011, which seems to have caused a lot of the issues in the ride quality. The tires are also a few years old (nittos 555R).
Recently I've upgraded to Koni's and Stranos which improved the car drastically in handling, but I still feel like it didn't fix the 'play' in the rear suspension, especially around town on less smooth roads. Almost like a side to side of the rear end, kind of wobbily. I also get a bit of clunking when going over bumps from what sounds like the right rear. All these issues were present prior to the Koni / Strano install, and the new shocks / springs did help quite a bit.
I want to fix the issues, but I want to weigh my options first on what needs to be replaced. My options that I am thinking of trying are:
1. Tires
2. LCA /PHB bushings
3. Sway bar replacement
4. Subframe Connectors
4. Other
What do you all think would be the best bang for my buck based on the above scenario? If you were to replace bushings, poly or rubber?
Thanks in advance.
TECH Addict
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,379
Likes: 2
I noticed my boxed lcas had good play on them this spring. The poly had hardened and the washers corroded. Caused some sway in the rear and allowed my 315s to rub hard drivers side. New lcas fixed it. You could go new bushings but as far as upgrade goes, poly with rod end is a step up over boxed poly poly. The harshness due to poly bind is night and day
Thanks for the response SladeX. I checked out my LCA's today. Definitely blown bushings, so I ordered a new set of BMR adjustable tubular LCA's with rubber bushings.
A few other items I forgot to mention above. Rear tires are 315's. Settings on Konis were Front - 4 sweeps from full soft, Rear - half turn from full soft.
Today I began troubleshooting and did the following which helped:
Slight -Dropped tire pressure from 38/38 to 32/30 front/rear
Moderate - Removed subwoofers (two 10's and amp) from rear of car
Significant - Decreased rear setting on Koni's from half turn from full soft to full soft (0).
I'm hoping that replacing the worn LCA and PHR bushings, an alignment and new tires will the issue and return the ride quality as much as possible for an Fbody.
A few other items I forgot to mention above. Rear tires are 315's. Settings on Konis were Front - 4 sweeps from full soft, Rear - half turn from full soft.
Today I began troubleshooting and did the following which helped:
Slight -Dropped tire pressure from 38/38 to 32/30 front/rear
Moderate - Removed subwoofers (two 10's and amp) from rear of car
Significant - Decreased rear setting on Koni's from half turn from full soft to full soft (0).
I'm hoping that replacing the worn LCA and PHR bushings, an alignment and new tires will the issue and return the ride quality as much as possible for an Fbody.
TECH Addict
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,379
Likes: 2
Getting rid of the poly/poly combo in my LCA's improved my ride quality greatly. It allowed the suspension to move again making the ride out back much softer. Going to a watt's link from a poly/poly panhard was night and day. The movement over bumps has been greatly improved. On top of that the car shifts weight from side to side on the rear perfectly. It's progressive feeling now. On highway today, I could "feel" the car balancing off the watt's link in the back. It was like the tires and axle was going with the road imperfections while the car it self remained poised and straight. It's no vette, but it certainly isn't a traditional f-body.
TECH Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 5,798
Likes: 16
From: St.Charles MO
So would you say ditching the poly bushings improved handling as well?
TECH Resident
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 828
Likes: 11
From: 4o5
If you don't mind I would like to ask something...
I'm in the same boat as OP. My car is an '02 TA with 116,XXX miles and the suspension is totally stock. My first "phase" in revamping my suspension is buying lowering springs, shocks, and PHB/watts link (What is the difference in these?)
My main question is about the poly/rubber ends you guys are talking about. What ends would be recommended to someone like me who is refreshening their suspension. My car is a DD and will honestly never see a track, and its a long shot if I ever go to a 1/4 mile track.
Thanks for your input guys!
I'm in the same boat as OP. My car is an '02 TA with 116,XXX miles and the suspension is totally stock. My first "phase" in revamping my suspension is buying lowering springs, shocks, and PHB/watts link (What is the difference in these?)
My main question is about the poly/rubber ends you guys are talking about. What ends would be recommended to someone like me who is refreshening their suspension. My car is a DD and will honestly never see a track, and its a long shot if I ever go to a 1/4 mile track.
Thanks for your input guys!
TECH Addict
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,379
Likes: 2
In my experience, getting rid of the poly/poly LCA for poly/sphere LCA's greatly improved handling.
As the axle moves up or down, the angle of the joint relative to the axle changes but the mounting point is perpendicular to the poly link and does not give. So it is the job of the poly portion to deform and provide give. The only problem is that it can only give so much, far less than a roto joint would allow (28 degrees for the roto joint) The result is at bind point, the suspension locks and this is felt as "snap" oversteer as I recall. Either way the description is like someone threw a boat anchor out the side making you turn harder unexpectedly and pushing for the rear to break loose and cause a spin.
The thing is for comfort purposes, as you go over road imperfections, bumps etc, your wheels go up and down, and you will STILL hit the bind point of the poly resulting in a harsher ride out back. Harshness is relative to the person, but it would be like hitting a pot hole the size of a manhole with the back tire when it was a small fist sized hole with the front.
If you can get the rubber ends (BMR has on hand!) Go for it, poly when done right isn't as bad as it seems if used in spots where bind is not an issue. Ie panhard rod will see little to no deflection as when I took mine off after 6 years, the ends looked lubricated and untouched compared to the poly on the lca's which were scored, marked and imprinted in how it binded.
As the axle moves up or down, the angle of the joint relative to the axle changes but the mounting point is perpendicular to the poly link and does not give. So it is the job of the poly portion to deform and provide give. The only problem is that it can only give so much, far less than a roto joint would allow (28 degrees for the roto joint) The result is at bind point, the suspension locks and this is felt as "snap" oversteer as I recall. Either way the description is like someone threw a boat anchor out the side making you turn harder unexpectedly and pushing for the rear to break loose and cause a spin.
The thing is for comfort purposes, as you go over road imperfections, bumps etc, your wheels go up and down, and you will STILL hit the bind point of the poly resulting in a harsher ride out back. Harshness is relative to the person, but it would be like hitting a pot hole the size of a manhole with the back tire when it was a small fist sized hole with the front.
If you can get the rubber ends (BMR has on hand!) Go for it, poly when done right isn't as bad as it seems if used in spots where bind is not an issue. Ie panhard rod will see little to no deflection as when I took mine off after 6 years, the ends looked lubricated and untouched compared to the poly on the lca's which were scored, marked and imprinted in how it binded.
