Raoul-Duke

iTrader: (6)

I hear that man. Yeah, very familiar with Midway. Names, Andy.

What high school you go to?

02TransAm/Batmobile

iTrader: (32)

Grew up on the north side (Logan Square area) - Gordon Tech. You wouldn't happen to have your stock springs now would you?

Raoul-Duke

iTrader: (6)

Oh gotcha, Yep, familiar with Logan Square. Just seeing if you went to any on the Soutside, I went to St. Laurence which is why I ask.

I'm on BMR springs right now, but I think I still may have the stock ones. Either I do in my garage, or my neighbor does because I changed them in his garage about 1 year ago.

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

You run the bar where you best like the balance of the car. More rear tire than front makes the car slightly more understeer balanced, so folks tend to run a little more rear bar in that case. YMMV.

02TransAm/Batmobile

iTrader: (32)

If you have them, let me know how much you want for them.


I still can't picture the physics behind it and why that's the case but it's food for thought. I'll expirement and see if I like the middle setting

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

I guess I don't know why you think you'd want a smaller bar in that case. Can you explain why you think that? If you are thinking something that's just basically incorrect, then it's going to be hard to picture.

Raoul-Duke

iTrader: (6)

Yeah no problem. Let me do some searching when I get home tonight and I'll get back to you tomorrow.

02TransAm/Batmobile

iTrader: (32)

Ok, here's my line of thinking: The preferred bar for straightline performance is a thicker bar because it transfers more grip to the rear. If you were to run wider tires that provide more grip in the back along with a thicker bar, wouldn't that provide too much rear grip? I thought the way to balance out the wider tires was to offset it with smaller bar - that's why when my buddy installed your bars, I asked him to put it in the lowest hole.

SSCamaro99_3

iTrader: (1)

Straightline and lateral grip are different. In a drag race application, you are trying to just keep the body centered over the tires to equally distribute the weight, and the front bar is unhooked or immaterial. There really is no side loading of the tire. Sam is talking about evening the roll rates front to rear, and compensating for a larger tire.

4th gen F-bodies suspension are designed for the same tire at all four corners. So if you have a matched 35/22 set, and then add grip (larger tire) to the rear. Assuming a larger rear bar frees up the car, you would need a larger bar to balance the larger tire.

z28bryan

iTrader: (7)

To me it seems like there is a lot more to it. It all depends on what setup you have as an entire whole. Less sway/roll resistance can allow more give for the tires. Gives it more of a range you can play with before the rear gives out. Stiffer sway/roll resistance can keep you more stable from a driver's feel standpoint.. until your rear tires break traction. And they will break traction earlier with a stiffer swaybar. There are other variables involed though.. People with lower roll center setups sometimes go with stiffer springs and swaybars. I think what happens is the car wants to roll harder with the lower roll center.

In the end it all boils down to testing and tuning. Once you get a feel for what your bar is doing and how a bigger or smaller should effect your car.. you try a different one or setting. Experiment.. repeat..

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

That's not why.... it's because it helps the car leave straighter. The rear bar does nothing to promote fore/aft grip.

And the lowest hole? Not higher and lower, it's softer and harder (longest position and shortest one respectively, with one in the middle).

A bar is a torsion spring. Also the stiffer they are, the more they actually try and pick up the inside tire, which is why you often see drag cars with tree trunk rears for leaving straight immediately yank the inside rear when they get out of shape (that and the tend to have no front bar to keep the car from dumping over).

To each his own, the idea is use the setting you like best. Seems you never tried others based on a misconception. You might still like the softest setting best, I can't say for sure, this is very much a personal thing and there is no 100% right answer for everyone. Different folks, roads, tires, shocks, etc, etc, etc. all play roles.

brigade24

just a note for those thinking about it...Strano's bars work best together...i initially only ordered and installed the front bar. I noticed in short order that the backend was always late to react...especially when autoxing.

As far as handling is concerned, i highly reco these bars...the handling is more predictable and sharp making it easy to drive fast. IMO, Strano bars should be the first mod done to acheive better handling, plus they represent excellent value.

Clearly, Mr. Strano did his homework.

Ghostintheshell

If homeownership allows me some coin in the spring, I'm buying stranos bars.

C Murda

iTrader: (24)

ive got an under steer problem in my Z... may be due to my choice of tires 315 BFG DRs rear and 285 BFG kdws tires in the front. i also am lowered on G2 springs koni adjustables and Spohn solid front CM bar and 1" solid rear bar. im no autox car by any means, more drag oriented BUT i thought going to such a thick rear bar would compensate for using the DRs but i still under steer on off ramps if going a good speed...

brigade24

^^^the kdws are pretty grippy tire so i don't know that's what would be causing your understeer issue. Obviously, transferring weight from side to side with your bar setup would be relatively challenging ...that is one thick rear bar. I wonder if you're getting enough "roll" ...also your TA length and angle can also play a role with front grip when turning under acceleration.

a good drag setup isn't the most pleasant in the turns so it depends on what you're willing to tolerate.

z28bryan

iTrader: (7)

I disagree that the KDWS is a grippy tire. That's an all season (or no season as I like to put it) tire. BFG DR is going to have mounds of more grip compared to the fronts. Also, causing more oversteer in the back isn't really a good way to fix understeer in the front. In his case the tires in the back grip so well, that the bigger rear bar hasn't gotten him to the point where he'll lose traction. Though when he does lose traction, it will snap itself free and be tougher to control.

I'm speaking strictly from a handling point of view. If you are just driving on the street, who cares if it understeers a little?

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

You have a rear tire that has a lot more mechanical grip than the fronts, a LOT more. The KDWS is a very hard, all season tire... Treadwear something like 340 or more (might even be in the 400 range if I think about it). Also, I suspect you run no negative camber .

Honestly you have a pretty stiff rear bar and a lot of spring rate. I think if you had the same tires all around, you'd be chasing the tail all over.

02TransAm/Batmobile

iTrader: (32)

Were you able to check out that PM I sent you?

brigade24

LOL...depends what you mean by a little...if he is on an off-ramp and going in hot, murda's gonna murda himself...and we certainly don't want that.

i only hear good things about the kdws from the folks that use them...of course they run them on all corners and are not setup for drag...

i agree on the rear bar issue.

CranMaro99

iTrader: (10)

I didn't read this entire thread, but all I have to say is I'd go with Strano sways because:

1) I have his hollow sways and they have been on my car for over 3 years. With his springs and koni's, they balanced the car out perfectly!

2) I'm never going to buy ANYTHING Spohn related let alone put it on my car considering what's going on the forum with their products lately.