AnotherWs6

iTrader: (17)

Well are they OK if I can feel that wear ridge? I have done a dozen pad slaps (not touching the rotors) on other cars in the past and never had a problem, but that was on stuff I didnt care about. So again, I can feel a ridge slightly wear the pads stop contacting the rotors, you think thats ok? I know one, thing - I'm not taking them off and bringing them somewhere to be resurfaced. Not worth the time, money.

FASTFATBOY

iTrader: (23)

Its about 10 bucks each to have them resurfaced if you pull them and take them to Oreilly's.

AnotherWs6

iTrader: (17)

I know, but I would just pop for new ones. Save the hassle, thats always been my philosophy.

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

It's not worth getting them cut. First you have the time and cost to do it which will pay for one, maybe two new rotors. Second, the ridge is from wear meaning the rotor is already thinner and cutting will only make that more the case. If they aren't warped and aren't down to minimum wear thickness, don't bother. If they are worn down that far you need new ones anyway. And getting new pads to bed on cut rotors is always a pain.

love2ride450

I'm all for saving money and only replacing parts that need replaced. I have always thought new pads bedded in better on fresh rotor surfaces. In my experience, pads squeak on old glazed rotor surfaces. Cutting the high spots and an extra .004 off the rotors is unlikely to make them warp easier. If they are anywhere close to minimum thickness, replace them.

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

That statement is born out of assumption.

You are assuming you'd only need to turn out .004" that's an arbitrary number that sounds great but has no basis in fact. And in fact .004 could still be within runout spec. for some vehicles and you'd never notice that little.

And brake pads bed just fine on good, used rotors. Trashed rotors? Different story, we're not talking about trashed, grooved up and scored rotors, if we were they'd need more than .004" turned out of them.

ajwoodtransport

Exactly.....when it's fluid related or a weak bulging line, the peddle will have more travel. When it's the pad gassing off, you'll have the same if not more back pressure on the peddle. If it's pad's you'll smell it...it'll smell a lot like a burning clutch. It's easy to confuse the two, because when you get that sinking feeling of "oh ****, I have no brakes" you'll push harder then you normally would giving yourself false readings. When it's pad's gassing off, it becomes a battle of pneumatic (gasses off your pads)versus hydraulics (your braking system) and it ends in a stalemate with no contact between pads and rotors. In my semi truck if I'm going down a mountain grade hot and heavy, by brake application gauge will show more psi, (we have air brakes) meaning I'm now having to push harder on my brakes to overcome the gasses coming off.

I'd play it safe, I'd check out both issues. I'd probably replace my fluid, and check my lines for bulges (have somebody step on the peddle hard while you feel and look at them), then either look at better rotors and pads, or if your tight on cash, at the very least scrub down your rotors with a green pad and brake cleaner. I know a lot of sportbike track guys do that after a day on the track. Good luck.

FASTFATBOY

iTrader: (23)

Once a pad is bed in, you dont smell them any more. I have incenerated a set of Carbotech XP20's in one weekend of DE's and never once smelled them"like a clutch".

Gasses off the pads? Really?! Pushing back on the pedal?

ajwoodtransport

Yes, if you have those symptoms, it's the binders in the pads that are gassing off, yes at least your traditional street pads will smell like a burning clutch, and yes it will increase the back pressure on the peddle. Bendix says so, my nose says so, and on my old truck the gauge says so. If you don't believe me....tell me where you live and if I get through there, you can hop aboard and we can smoke some trailer brakes. I'll let you operate the trailer brakes so you can both smell it and feel the backpressure. Even my f150 brakes will smell if I'm hauling my 16' trailer with a car on it and have to brake hard.....so that doesn't just apply to a semi trucks shoes composition. The principals behind the brake system on a semi truck, a car, or a sportbike all revolve around the same ideas...with only slight tweaks to satisfy their particular purposes. Yes, high end pads that a Daytona Prototype wears and or even some performance street pads on my old sportbike during a trackday won't smoke or smell much, but for the most part...most street pads will smoke and smell if you run them to hard. I'm in Cookeville, Tn as I write this and heading to Nashville, then up to Kansas City. I travel all over, so If you want to see for yourself, don't be bashful.....but leave the smart aleck tone to yourself.

FASTFATBOY

iTrader: (23)

You are talking about a big truck, most likely with a totally different system, air over hyd and drum brakes. Works nothing like our cars.

I have burnt the hell out of pads on track and never seen them smoke outside of the bedding in process...ever. Never smelled them outside of the bedding process....ever. I have never seen my street pads smoke on an autocross course, ever...outside of the bedding process.

You might want to get out of your truck, strap on a helmet and get in my passenger seat and see for YOUR self.

This guy, the original poster in no way no how is taxing the pad to have "outgassing" issues on a spirited street drive on street tires. If you have excessive pedal pressure in a modern street car you have activated the ABS system.

Brake fade in a sporty car is almost always caused buy the fluid being overheated, either by the pads operating temp being exceeded or the fluid having too much moisture content and the water boiling in the fluid or both.

"Drilled and slotted" rotors have no place on a heavy car used for track duty, they were designed for older pads that had or believed to have "outgassing" issues. If they are on a modern car they are there for cooling purposes only.

I know you may be bored, but telling fairy tales to a guy playing on the street is a little out there IMO. 18 wheelers are not sportscars, the systems are totally different as are the pad compounds and they way they are designed to work.

ajwoodtransport

Again, the brake systems all work on the same principal...doesn't matter if it's pneumatic, hydraulic, drum, rotor...it's all the same principal. Again a fluid problem will result in in a spongy peddle.....brake fade from a pad gassing off will result in the same or more back pressure. The only reason some people confuse that is because they are panicking and really pushing hard on the peddle....so they will perceive it as the peddle is going to floor...and depending how strong their leg is..it just might be, but they are two totally different issues. Again, pads designed for the track are probably not going to gas off as much.....and what I posted above is EXACTLY the reason why they are designed not to gas off. I never told him that he had either a hydraulic issue, or a pad/rotor issue...so I'm not telling him fairytales....I told him the difference between the two symptoms and what I would do to check over his brakes....which included changing the fluid and checking the lines in case it was a hydraulic issue. Speaking of hydraulics....not only do I drive semi trucks, but I work around heavy equipment.....and I'm certified high lift operator in which if I screw up...I get to fall to my death...so I know I little bit about hydraulics too. You want to question my experience......ok fine. I'm a truck driver so go ahead and try to bash me....but I've also sat in on safety seminars where brake manufacturers come in to give lessons..so what I'm telling you is directly from the source. And you want to know why most street pads will smell like a burned clutch????? because the same binders in the brakes pads are used in most clutches....they both do the same thing...one stops a vehicle, the other gets a vehicle rolling. Also, I may not hit tracks all the time....in fact, I've only done a couple trackdays on a sportbike and in the semi truck.....guess who has to work on, pay for it, and depend on my life with it??? Me...I'm the one that goes over the edge if my brakes don't work, I'm the one that spends 10-15k on maintenance, I'm the one that will go to jail if I rear end a car in rush hour traffic, etc, etc, etc, .so I take it pretty serious. So not to sound all dramatic, because it's really not....but my livelihood depends on it...this isn't a weekend hobby for me. One last time the braking systems are very similar....especially when you are talking a factory brake or slightly modified brake system on a car. I don't know where you live in Alabama, but anytime you want to smoke brakes let me know....I actually deliever to the northern parts of Alabama every couple months...and next summer, I'm taking a trip down to Florida and we can smoke the brake on my factory Camaro....won't bother me at...those things are cheap compared what I'm used to paying for brakes. Whenever I say something on here or any other site....I only say what I've experienced or what I've been told from a credible source...and in this case it's both experience and the manufacturers themselves..both in trucking and sportbikes. Whenever, I'm wrong, I quickly accept it...because that's how we learn....but no I never steered the guy wrong and you're getting all worked up for nothing.

nitroheadz28

iTrader: (3)

You're saying you've never driven any car very hard and smelled brakes during/ afterward? I get that on my trans am when I romp on it very hard, I have the same symptoms as the OP. In fact one emergency stop from 120-50 and everything starts going to hell, and yes my pads smell like crap afterwards.

I've encountered that same smell on just about all the cars I've beaten the crap out of, all stock spec street pads and rotors.

FASTFATBOY

iTrader: (23)

I run ceramic pads on the street and autocross.

Race pads for trackdays, and no to all your questions.

Except to have I driven a car hard....umm yeh. 140 to 50 into turn one at NOLA Motorsports Park, for 15 laps straight, 8 times in a weekend.

I would suggest you buy better pads and bed them in properly.

ajwoodtransport

I'm not very experienced on the tracks and have never claimed to be, but for what it's worth 170 to 90 into turn 1 at Mid America Motorplex. Or cresting the blind hill before turn 1 at 160 to 40 at Heartland Raceway dragging knees and hard parts.....even when you lift up to use your body as an air brake, you're stil working those brakes hard. No, I never had brake fade on the sportbike, but with factory brakes, they get hot, and you could occasionally smell them...and that's on a little 400lb machine.

BTW, I know I'm just a dumb truck driver who's bored and knows nothing about anything else except our old, dated, braking system, but the cutting edge technology "sports car" caliper, pads, and rotors on our factory Camaro's are the exact same part numbers on my Mother's Buick Park Ave.......and I think the front brakes on my 98 f150 are the same brakes on the Mustangs from those years....so the factory "sport car brakes" can and do smoke. I was watching a video about two years ago where they were taking one of those hemi powered SR8TJeep SUV's with all the braking and suspension goodies, through the canyons in southern Cal and it's brakes were smoking pretty good...they even got out and commented on it. I'm sure you can google a video of it or others like it...and that has nothing to do with the fluid.

We all bring something to the table...be it airplane, truck, trains, cars, motorcycles......be it weekend racer, engineer at the plant, pilot, taxi cab driver, and semi truck driver.......but just because you race more on the tracks then some of us, doesn't mean the rest of us haven't raced on a track, or haven't taken a vehicle to it's limits on the street. You should see some of the guys carving up the roads down in Arkansas, or Deals Gap in Tennessee, or out in the Canyons of southern California....those guys are pushing the machines to their limits and they are not on a track. The semi truck....we've mastered the turbos long before the little Subarus got popular, we had throttle by wire a few years before the Corvette did, we've had GPS tracking for two decades now, and we've had "launch assist" since the early 90's....years before the BMW M5 came out with it. On the flip side....we've stolen aerodynamics from aviation, we've stolen sand dispensers that shoot sand in front of our drive tires from trains, and we've been starting to steal crash protection systems from cars. I myself, while, not a pilot learned how to fly and did a couple solo flights, used to play on sportbikes, still ride dual sports, enjoy bicycling, am an Arborist, so I work around grabble trucks, bucket trucks, and I'm long haul truck driver....hence the name AJ wood transport.....so while I'm not an expert race car driver such as yourself, I've been around and know that factory brakes can and do smoke. Also, I've learned as an Arborist, (ISA MW5054-a) that prescription before diagnosis, is a huge mistake...that applies both to Arboriculture, Medical, and to troubleshooting and repairing a car....which is why I did not give the guy a definitive answer as to what his problem was or how to fix it....I gave a general diagnosis as to what to look for, and a general prescription as to what I would do. That included both the hydraulic side and the rotor/pad side.

Have a good day there ricky rad racer....aka computer Rambo.

FASTFATBOY

iTrader: (23)

You make posts like THAT^^^^ and call ME Computer Rambo???

I am no "race driver" But I have learned in the HPDE world on real racetracks how to drive a 4th Gen Fbody fairly fast, but I can tell you this...I didn't come on here reeling out the list of what I know to try and beat my chest convince anyone.

I have been to Deals Gap .........and???

So you know more than Sam Strano I see, but you don't know who he is...or maybe you do seeing how much you claim to know. Sam, most likely diagnosed the issue correctly. I tossed in a few more good "maybes"...then you outta the sky with who knows what.

So learn some punctuation and how to separate a post so people can read it, or better yet pull over and go to sleep.

ajwoodtransport

First off, I was agreeing with Sam....he had it right. I was just throwing in some more info that I thought might be beneficial. Thumping my chest?......you're the one bragging about your trackday stuff...."yeah man, going from 150 to 40 dude". I was just letting you know, you're not the only one that's been deep in the triple digits on a track. You're the one that got all bent out of shape because of my first post when I was just trying to give constructive information regarding brakes. Then you tried to belittle me because I guess I'm just a truck driver. Or maybe it's because you've been on here 10 years and I've only been on this site for 9months...so you think you can act like a jerk and I'm suppose to accept it. Now you're telling me when I should drive and when I should go to sleep. If you must know, I'm waiting to get loaded and in few minutes I'm going to be driving all night and enjoying some good tunes. Finally you tell me how to write. I'm sorry guy, I'll be honest, I'm not really interested in proper writing and I only have an eighth grade education so you can pick on that too.....but for what it's worth according to Dr Karr and UMKC my IQ averages out to be 121-123. That was 6-8 hours worth of mandatory testing, not some internet, quickie IQ test. So I'm not Einstein, but I'm in the lower superior range.....that's not too shabby for dumb truck driver. More importantly, at least I know the difference between a hydraulic issue and rotor/pad issue.
You, yourself said you've never smoked a brake....and yet you question my knowledge on how a brake peddle should feel when somebody does smoke a brake. If you've never had brakes smoke on you...then no, you don't know what if feels like....so don't tell me I'm wrong. I'm done with this...you won and can have your website back. There is some good information on here, but I did fine without it for 42 years and I'm sure I'll continue to do just fine without it again.

FASTFATBOY

iTrader: (23)

I got a few good giggle's from this guy. I don't know how you haven't won the Nobel Peace Prize or put a man on the moon in your spare time.

Carry on.

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

Please let's not let this devolve like most internet discussions.

First, pads do outgas... and I've had brakes smoking at track days. And you do get a boundry layer between the pads and rotors, and gas isn't easily compressible, this is one reason you see slotted rotors on race cars, the other is that it helps keep crap out of the pad that will score the rotor.

Now, does everyone need slotted rotors? Well, with power brakes you generally have enough advantage to be able to punch through the gas layer (on hot brakes). Manual brakes, the slots help quite a bit when the brakes are hot and that layer builds. Do you NEED to run slotted rotors? No, most especially for a normal street car. But there are some advantages.

FASTFATBOY

iTrader: (23)

Sam, while I respect your knowledege I will agree to disagree on this one.

Any modern day car with modern day pads will have no issues with pad "outgassing", especially on the street on street tires. I know everything on earth that reaches a certain temp puts off some kind of "gas". But to say it played ANY kind of roll in this instance it bullshit. Pads come with a slot in them to help with this. There is not enough gas produced in pads made for CARS nowadays for it to be any kind of issue....especially on the street.

Slotted rotors came about to help with pad glazing. To "trim" the pad to keep it "fresh" from back in the Asbestos days, still works today but pad compounds are less likely to glaze.

Since I am so hard on brakes I have done a ton of reading and talked to more than a few people on the subject.

Your diagnosis is most likely correct as most never change the brake fluid in a car...ever. It should be done once a year if you drive the car hard.

With that said, I will bow out.

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

This is paramount to Coke or Pepsi. The fact is matter doesn't just disappear. Anything you heat will produce gases. From the plastic dashboad to the gasoline and air you put through the engine, water that turns to steam. Gassing is a fact, it's maybe not the end of the world for most, but it does happen.

Slots aren't to clean the face of the pad, you'll notice that slots have chamfers. If they didn't they'd act like a slicer to the pads. They give a place for stuff to go, from gas to road debris and dirt so that dirt isn't embedded into the pad and slotted rotors cut down on grooving of the rotors. Hell my sister's Buick Enclave's rear rotors, and my Dad's Ford Focus front rotors both looked like records magnified x100 they are so grooved up from crap getting jammed in the pads.

To each his own. I sell slotted and blank rotors. I'll sell drilled ones to if someone wants them, but I don't like them and never recommend them.