Brake Fade - anybody with good results?
#21
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Well are they OK if I can feel that wear ridge? I have done a dozen pad slaps (not touching the rotors) on other cars in the past and never had a problem, but that was on stuff I didnt care about. So again, I can feel a ridge slightly wear the pads stop contacting the rotors, you think thats ok? I know one, thing - I'm not taking them off and bringing them somewhere to be resurfaced. Not worth the time, money.
#22
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Well are they OK if I can feel that wear ridge? I have done a dozen pad slaps (not touching the rotors) on other cars in the past and never had a problem, but that was on stuff I didnt care about. So again, I can feel a ridge slightly wear the pads stop contacting the rotors, you think thats ok? I know one, thing - I'm not taking them off and bringing them somewhere to be resurfaced. Not worth the time, money.
#24
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It's not worth getting them cut. First you have the time and cost to do it which will pay for one, maybe two new rotors. Second, the ridge is from wear meaning the rotor is already thinner and cutting will only make that more the case. If they aren't warped and aren't down to minimum wear thickness, don't bother. If they are worn down that far you need new ones anyway. And getting new pads to bed on cut rotors is always a pain.
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Results matter. Talk is cheap. We are miles beyond the success anyone else has had with the 4th gens, and C5, C6, C7 Corvettes,
10 SCCA Solo National Championships, 2008 Driver of they Year, 2012 Driver of Eminence
13 SCCA Pro Solo Nationals Championships
2023 UMI King of the Mountain Champion
#25
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It's not worth getting them cut. First you have the time and cost to do it which will pay for one, maybe two new rotors. Second, the ridge is from wear meaning the rotor is already thinner and cutting will only make that more the case. If they aren't warped and aren't down to minimum wear thickness, don't bother. If they are worn down that far you need new ones anyway. And getting new pads to bed on cut rotors is always a pain.
#26
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That statement is born out of assumption.
You are assuming you'd only need to turn out .004" that's an arbitrary number that sounds great but has no basis in fact. And in fact .004 could still be within runout spec. for some vehicles and you'd never notice that little.
And brake pads bed just fine on good, used rotors. Trashed rotors? Different story, we're not talking about trashed, grooved up and scored rotors, if we were they'd need more than .004" turned out of them.
You are assuming you'd only need to turn out .004" that's an arbitrary number that sounds great but has no basis in fact. And in fact .004 could still be within runout spec. for some vehicles and you'd never notice that little.
And brake pads bed just fine on good, used rotors. Trashed rotors? Different story, we're not talking about trashed, grooved up and scored rotors, if we were they'd need more than .004" turned out of them.
__________________
www.stranoparts.com --814-849-3450
Results matter. Talk is cheap. We are miles beyond the success anyone else has had with the 4th gens, and C5, C6, C7 Corvettes,
10 SCCA Solo National Championships, 2008 Driver of they Year, 2012 Driver of Eminence
13 SCCA Pro Solo Nationals Championships
2023 UMI King of the Mountain Champion
www.stranoparts.com --814-849-3450
Results matter. Talk is cheap. We are miles beyond the success anyone else has had with the 4th gens, and C5, C6, C7 Corvettes,
10 SCCA Solo National Championships, 2008 Driver of they Year, 2012 Driver of Eminence
13 SCCA Pro Solo Nationals Championships
2023 UMI King of the Mountain Champion
#27
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I'll be blunt. You either got pad fade, fluid fade, or some of both. Rotors don't fade. Due to the unknown nature of the pads I'm sure you got pad fade (that's when the car just doesn't want to stop but the pedal is still good). You might also have gotten some fluid fade, maybe but it's less likely. That's when the pedal gets long, and that's most likely due to the fact that nobody flushes the brake fluid like they should....
If you need rotors, ok... but you shouldn't change them if there is nothing wrong with them unless you like to waste money.
ATE fluid is my biggest seller on the fluid side. It's not expensive, and many use it to track with. Yes there are bigger badder fluids, but you aren't exactly in need of that. You need something more than the junk that's in there (and could well be original).
I have a lot of pad options we could discuss. Depends how strong you like your brakes, how much temperature you really need, and what you can tolerate for dust and noise. There are some KILLER stopping street pads that won't fade on you, but they are messy.l There are pads that work really well, that I never fade myself on the street (but won't hold up for a track day) and are quiet and relatively clean.
If you need rotors, ok... but you shouldn't change them if there is nothing wrong with them unless you like to waste money.
ATE fluid is my biggest seller on the fluid side. It's not expensive, and many use it to track with. Yes there are bigger badder fluids, but you aren't exactly in need of that. You need something more than the junk that's in there (and could well be original).
I have a lot of pad options we could discuss. Depends how strong you like your brakes, how much temperature you really need, and what you can tolerate for dust and noise. There are some KILLER stopping street pads that won't fade on you, but they are messy.l There are pads that work really well, that I never fade myself on the street (but won't hold up for a track day) and are quiet and relatively clean.
Exactly.....when it's fluid related or a weak bulging line, the peddle will have more travel. When it's the pad gassing off, you'll have the same if not more back pressure on the peddle. If it's pad's you'll smell it...it'll smell a lot like a burning clutch. It's easy to confuse the two, because when you get that sinking feeling of "oh ****, I have no brakes" you'll push harder then you normally would giving yourself false readings. When it's pad's gassing off, it becomes a battle of pneumatic (gasses off your pads)versus hydraulics (your braking system) and it ends in a stalemate with no contact between pads and rotors. In my semi truck if I'm going down a mountain grade hot and heavy, by brake application gauge will show more psi, (we have air brakes) meaning I'm now having to push harder on my brakes to overcome the gasses coming off.
I'd play it safe, I'd check out both issues. I'd probably replace my fluid, and check my lines for bulges (have somebody step on the peddle hard while you feel and look at them), then either look at better rotors and pads, or if your tight on cash, at the very least scrub down your rotors with a green pad and brake cleaner. I know a lot of sportbike track guys do that after a day on the track. Good luck.
#28
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Exactly.....when it's fluid related or a weak bulging line, the peddle will have more travel. When it's the pad gassing off, you'll have the same if not more back pressure on the peddle. If it's pad's you'll smell it...it'll smell a lot like a burning clutch. It's easy to confuse the two, because when you get that sinking feeling of "oh ****, I have no brakes" you'll push harder then you normally would giving yourself false readings. When it's pad's gassing off, it becomes a battle of pneumatic (gasses off your pads)versus hydraulics (your braking system) and it ends in a stalemate with no contact between pads and rotors. In my semi truck if I'm going down a mountain grade hot and heavy, by brake application gauge will show more psi, (we have air brakes) meaning I'm now having to push harder on my brakes to overcome the gasses coming off.
I'd play it safe, I'd check out both issues. I'd probably replace my fluid, and check my lines for bulges (have somebody step on the peddle hard while you feel and look at them), then either look at better rotors and pads, or if your tight on cash, at the very least scrub down your rotors with a green pad and brake cleaner. I know a lot of sportbike track guys do that after a day on the track. Good luck.
I'd play it safe, I'd check out both issues. I'd probably replace my fluid, and check my lines for bulges (have somebody step on the peddle hard while you feel and look at them), then either look at better rotors and pads, or if your tight on cash, at the very least scrub down your rotors with a green pad and brake cleaner. I know a lot of sportbike track guys do that after a day on the track. Good luck.
Gasses off the pads? Really?! Pushing back on the pedal?
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#29
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Yes, if you have those symptoms, it's the binders in the pads that are gassing off, yes at least your traditional street pads will smell like a burning clutch, and yes it will increase the back pressure on the peddle. Bendix says so, my nose says so, and on my old truck the gauge says so. If you don't believe me....tell me where you live and if I get through there, you can hop aboard and we can smoke some trailer brakes. I'll let you operate the trailer brakes so you can both smell it and feel the backpressure. Even my f150 brakes will smell if I'm hauling my 16' trailer with a car on it and have to brake hard.....so that doesn't just apply to a semi trucks shoes composition. The principals behind the brake system on a semi truck, a car, or a sportbike all revolve around the same ideas...with only slight tweaks to satisfy their particular purposes. Yes, high end pads that a Daytona Prototype wears and or even some performance street pads on my old sportbike during a trackday won't smoke or smell much, but for the most part...most street pads will smoke and smell if you run them to hard. I'm in Cookeville, Tn as I write this and heading to Nashville, then up to Kansas City. I travel all over, so If you want to see for yourself, don't be bashful.....but leave the smart aleck tone to yourself.
Last edited by ajwoodtransport; 08-26-2013 at 06:15 PM.
#30
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Yes, if you have those symptoms, it's the binders in the pads that are gassing off, yes at least your traditional street pads will smell like a burning clutch, and yes it will increase the back pressure on the peddle. Bendix says so, my nose says so, and on my old truck the gauge says so. If you don't believe me....tell me where you live and if I get through there, you can hop aboard and we can smoke some trailer brakes and I'll let you operate the trailer brakes so you smell it and feel the backpressure on it. Even my f150 brakes will smell if I'm hauling my 16' trailer with a car on it and have to brake hard.....so that doesn't just apply to a semi trucks shoes composition. The principals behind the brake system on a semi truck, a car, or a sportbike all revolve around the same ideas...with only slight tweaks to satisfy their particular purposes. Yes, high end pads won't smoke like street pads, but he's in a Camaro, not a Daytona Prototype with huge carbon fiber brake rotors and pads that can both tolerate and dissipate the heat. I'm in Cookeville, Tn as I write this and heading to Nashville, then up to Kansas City. I travel all over, so If you want to see for yourself, don't be bashful.....but leave the smart aleck tone to yourself.
You are talking about a big truck, most likely with a totally different system, air over hyd and drum brakes. Works nothing like our cars.
I have burnt the hell out of pads on track and never seen them smoke outside of the bedding in process...ever. Never smelled them outside of the bedding process....ever. I have never seen my street pads smoke on an autocross course, ever...outside of the bedding process.
You might want to get out of your truck, strap on a helmet and get in my passenger seat and see for YOUR self.
This guy, the original poster in no way no how is taxing the pad to have "outgassing" issues on a spirited street drive on street tires. If you have excessive pedal pressure in a modern street car you have activated the ABS system.
Brake fade in a sporty car is almost always caused buy the fluid being overheated, either by the pads operating temp being exceeded or the fluid having too much moisture content and the water boiling in the fluid or both.
"Drilled and slotted" rotors have no place on a heavy car used for track duty, they were designed for older pads that had or believed to have "outgassing" issues. If they are on a modern car they are there for cooling purposes only.
I know you may be bored, but telling fairy tales to a guy playing on the street is a little out there IMO. 18 wheelers are not sportscars, the systems are totally different as are the pad compounds and they way they are designed to work.
#31
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You are talking about a big truck, most likely with a totally different system, air over hyd and drum brakes. Works nothing like our cars.
I have burnt the hell out of pads on track and never seen them smoke outside of the bedding in process...ever. Never smelled them outside of the bedding process....ever. I have never seen my street pads smoke on an autocross course, ever...outside of the bedding process.
You might want to get out of your truck, strap on a helmet and get in my passenger seat and see for YOUR self.
This guy, the original poster in no way no how is taxing the pad to have "outgassing" issues on a spirited street drive on street tires. If you have excessive pedal pressure in a modern street car you have activated the ABS system.
Brake fade in a sporty car is almost always caused buy the fluid being overheated, either by the pads operating temp being exceeded or the fluid having too much moisture content and the water boiling in the fluid or both.
"Drilled and slotted" rotors have no place on a heavy car used for track duty, they were designed for older pads that had or believed to have "outgassing" issues. If they are on a modern car they are there for cooling purposes only.
I know you may be bored, but telling fairy tales to a guy playing on the street is a little out there IMO. 18 wheelers are not sportscars, the systems are totally different as are the pad compounds and they way they are designed to work.
I have burnt the hell out of pads on track and never seen them smoke outside of the bedding in process...ever. Never smelled them outside of the bedding process....ever. I have never seen my street pads smoke on an autocross course, ever...outside of the bedding process.
You might want to get out of your truck, strap on a helmet and get in my passenger seat and see for YOUR self.
This guy, the original poster in no way no how is taxing the pad to have "outgassing" issues on a spirited street drive on street tires. If you have excessive pedal pressure in a modern street car you have activated the ABS system.
Brake fade in a sporty car is almost always caused buy the fluid being overheated, either by the pads operating temp being exceeded or the fluid having too much moisture content and the water boiling in the fluid or both.
"Drilled and slotted" rotors have no place on a heavy car used for track duty, they were designed for older pads that had or believed to have "outgassing" issues. If they are on a modern car they are there for cooling purposes only.
I know you may be bored, but telling fairy tales to a guy playing on the street is a little out there IMO. 18 wheelers are not sportscars, the systems are totally different as are the pad compounds and they way they are designed to work.
Last edited by ajwoodtransport; 08-26-2013 at 07:08 PM.
#32
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You're saying you've never driven any car very hard and smelled brakes during/ afterward? I get that on my trans am when I romp on it very hard, I have the same symptoms as the OP. In fact one emergency stop from 120-50 and everything starts going to hell, and yes my pads smell like crap afterwards.
I've encountered that same smell on just about all the cars I've beaten the crap out of, all stock spec street pads and rotors.
I've encountered that same smell on just about all the cars I've beaten the crap out of, all stock spec street pads and rotors.
#33
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You're saying you've never driven any car very hard and smelled brakes during/ afterward? I get that on my trans am when I romp on it very hard, I have the same symptoms as the OP. In fact one emergency stop from 120-50 and everything starts going to hell, and yes my pads smell like crap afterwards.
I've encountered that same smell on just about all the cars I've beaten the crap out of, all stock spec street pads and rotors.
I've encountered that same smell on just about all the cars I've beaten the crap out of, all stock spec street pads and rotors.
Race pads for trackdays, and no to all your questions.
Except to have I driven a car hard....umm yeh. 140 to 50 into turn one at NOLA Motorsports Park, for 15 laps straight, 8 times in a weekend.
I would suggest you buy better pads and bed them in properly.
#34
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I run ceramic pads on the street and autocross.
Race pads for trackdays, and no to all your questions.
Except to have I driven a car hard....umm yeh. 140 to 50 into turn one at NOLA Motorsports Park, for 15 laps straight, 8 times in a weekend.
I would suggest you buy better pads and bed them in properly.
Race pads for trackdays, and no to all your questions.
Except to have I driven a car hard....umm yeh. 140 to 50 into turn one at NOLA Motorsports Park, for 15 laps straight, 8 times in a weekend.
I would suggest you buy better pads and bed them in properly.
I'm not very experienced on the tracks and have never claimed to be, but for what it's worth 170 to 90 into turn 1 at Mid America Motorplex. Or cresting the blind hill before turn 1 at 160 to 40 at Heartland Raceway dragging knees and hard parts.....even when you lift up to use your body as an air brake, you're stil working those brakes hard. No, I never had brake fade on the sportbike, but with factory brakes, they get hot, and you could occasionally smell them...and that's on a little 400lb machine.
BTW, I know I'm just a dumb truck driver who's bored and knows nothing about anything else except our old, dated, braking system, but the cutting edge technology "sports car" caliper, pads, and rotors on our factory Camaro's are the exact same part numbers on my Mother's Buick Park Ave...
![Embarassed](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/smilies/LS1Tech/gr_emb.gif)
We all bring something to the table...be it airplane, truck, trains, cars, motorcycles......be it weekend racer, engineer at the plant, pilot, taxi cab driver, and semi truck driver.......but just because you race more on the tracks then some of us, doesn't mean the rest of us haven't raced on a track, or haven't taken a vehicle to it's limits on the street. You should see some of the guys carving up the roads down in Arkansas, or Deals Gap in Tennessee, or out in the Canyons of southern California....those guys are pushing the machines to their limits and they are not on a track. The semi truck....we've mastered the turbos long before the little Subarus got popular, we had throttle by wire a few years before the Corvette did, we've had GPS tracking for two decades now, and we've had "launch assist" since the early 90's....years before the BMW M5 came out with it. On the flip side....we've stolen aerodynamics from aviation, we've stolen sand dispensers that shoot sand in front of our drive tires from trains, and we've been starting to steal crash protection systems from cars. I myself, while, not a pilot learned how to fly and did a couple solo flights, used to play on sportbikes, still ride dual sports, enjoy bicycling, am an Arborist, so I work around grabble trucks, bucket trucks, and I'm long haul truck driver....hence the name AJ wood transport.....so while I'm not an expert race car driver such as yourself, I've been around and know that factory brakes can and do smoke. Also, I've learned as an Arborist, (ISA MW5054-a) that prescription before diagnosis, is a huge mistake...that applies both to Arboriculture, Medical, and to troubleshooting and repairing a car....which is why I did not give the guy a definitive answer as to what his problem was or how to fix it....I gave a general diagnosis as to what to look for, and a general prescription as to what I would do. That included both the hydraulic side and the rotor/pad side.
Have a good day there ricky rad racer....aka computer Rambo.
#35
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I'm not very experienced on the tracks and have never claimed to be, but for what it's worth 170 to 90 into turn 1 at Mid America Motorplex. Or cresting the blind hill before turn 1 at 160 to 40 at Heartland Raceway dragging knees and hard parts.....even when you lift up to use your body as an air brake, you're stil working those brakes hard. No, I never had brake fade on the sportbike, but with factory brakes, they get hot, and you could occasionally smell them...and that's on a little 400lb machine.
BTW, I know I'm just a dumb truck driver who's bored and knows nothing about anything else except our old, dated, braking system, but the cutting edge technology "sports car" caliper, pads, and rotors on our factory Camaro's are the exact same part numbers on my Mother's Buick Park Ave...
....and I think the front brakes on my 98 f150 are the same brakes on the Mustangs from those years....so the factory "sport car brakes" can and do smoke. I was watching a video about two years ago where they were taking one of those hemi powered SR8TJeep SUV's with all the braking and suspension goodies, through the canyons in southern Cal and it's brakes were smoking pretty good...they even got out and commented on it. I'm sure you can google a video of it or others like it...and that has nothing to do with the fluid.
We all bring something to the table...be it airplane, truck, trains, cars, motorcycles......be it weekend racer, engineer at the plant, pilot, taxi cab driver, and semi truck driver.......but just because you race more on the tracks then some of us, doesn't mean the rest of us haven't raced on a track, or haven't taken a vehicle to it's limits on the street. You should see some of the guys carving up the roads down in Arkansas, or Deals Gap in Tennessee, or out in the Canyons of southern California....those guys are pushing the machines to their limits and they are not on a track. The semi truck....we've mastered the turbos long before the little Subarus got popular, we had throttle by wire a few years before the Corvette did, we've had GPS tracking for two decades now, and we've had "launch assist" since the early 90's....years before the BMW M5 came out with it. On the flip side....we've stolen aerodynamics from aviation, we've stolen sand dispensers that shoot sand in front of our drive tires from trains, and we've been starting to steal crash protection systems from cars. I myself, while, not a pilot learned how to fly and did a couple solo flights, used to play on sportbikes, still ride dual sports, enjoy bicycling, am an Arborist, so I work around grabble trucks, bucket trucks, and I'm long haul truck driver....hence the name AJ wood transport.....so while I'm not an expert race car driver such as yourself, I've been around and know that factory brakes can and do smoke. Also, I've learned as an Arborist, (ISA MW5054-a) that prescription before diagnosis, is a huge mistake...that applies both to Arboriculture, Medical, and to troubleshooting and repairing a car....which is why I did not give the guy a definitive answer as to what his problem was or how to fix it....I gave a general diagnosis as to what to look for, and a general prescription as to what I would do. That included both the hydraulic side and the rotor/pad side.
Have a good day there ricky rad racer....aka computer Rambo.
BTW, I know I'm just a dumb truck driver who's bored and knows nothing about anything else except our old, dated, braking system, but the cutting edge technology "sports car" caliper, pads, and rotors on our factory Camaro's are the exact same part numbers on my Mother's Buick Park Ave...
![Embarassed](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/smilies/LS1Tech/gr_emb.gif)
We all bring something to the table...be it airplane, truck, trains, cars, motorcycles......be it weekend racer, engineer at the plant, pilot, taxi cab driver, and semi truck driver.......but just because you race more on the tracks then some of us, doesn't mean the rest of us haven't raced on a track, or haven't taken a vehicle to it's limits on the street. You should see some of the guys carving up the roads down in Arkansas, or Deals Gap in Tennessee, or out in the Canyons of southern California....those guys are pushing the machines to their limits and they are not on a track. The semi truck....we've mastered the turbos long before the little Subarus got popular, we had throttle by wire a few years before the Corvette did, we've had GPS tracking for two decades now, and we've had "launch assist" since the early 90's....years before the BMW M5 came out with it. On the flip side....we've stolen aerodynamics from aviation, we've stolen sand dispensers that shoot sand in front of our drive tires from trains, and we've been starting to steal crash protection systems from cars. I myself, while, not a pilot learned how to fly and did a couple solo flights, used to play on sportbikes, still ride dual sports, enjoy bicycling, am an Arborist, so I work around grabble trucks, bucket trucks, and I'm long haul truck driver....hence the name AJ wood transport.....so while I'm not an expert race car driver such as yourself, I've been around and know that factory brakes can and do smoke. Also, I've learned as an Arborist, (ISA MW5054-a) that prescription before diagnosis, is a huge mistake...that applies both to Arboriculture, Medical, and to troubleshooting and repairing a car....which is why I did not give the guy a definitive answer as to what his problem was or how to fix it....I gave a general diagnosis as to what to look for, and a general prescription as to what I would do. That included both the hydraulic side and the rotor/pad side.
Have a good day there ricky rad racer....aka computer Rambo.
You make posts like THAT^^^^ and call ME Computer Rambo???
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I am no "race driver" But I have learned in the HPDE world on real racetracks how to drive a 4th Gen Fbody fairly fast, but I can tell you this...I didn't come on here reeling out the list of what I know to try and beat my chest convince anyone.
I have been to Deals Gap .........and???
So you know more than Sam Strano I see, but you don't know who he is...or maybe you do seeing how much you claim to know. Sam, most likely diagnosed the issue correctly. I tossed in a few more good "maybes"...then you outta the sky with who knows what.
So learn some punctuation and how to separate a post so people can read it, or better yet pull over and go to sleep.
#36
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You make posts like THAT^^^^ and call ME Computer Rambo???![Bang Head](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/smilies/LS1Tech/gr_banghead.gif)
I am no "race driver" But I have learned in the HPDE world on real racetracks how to drive a 4th Gen Fbody fairly fast, but I can tell you this...I didn't come on here reeling out the list of what I know to try and beat my chest convince anyone.
I have been to Deals Gap .........and???
So you know more than Sam Strano I see, but you don't know who he is...or maybe you do seeing how much you claim to know. Sam, most likely diagnosed the issue correctly. I tossed in a few more good "maybes"...then you outta the sky with who knows what.
So learn some punctuation and how to separate a post so people can read it, or better yet pull over and go to sleep.
![Bang Head](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/smilies/LS1Tech/gr_banghead.gif)
I am no "race driver" But I have learned in the HPDE world on real racetracks how to drive a 4th Gen Fbody fairly fast, but I can tell you this...I didn't come on here reeling out the list of what I know to try and beat my chest convince anyone.
I have been to Deals Gap .........and???
So you know more than Sam Strano I see, but you don't know who he is...or maybe you do seeing how much you claim to know. Sam, most likely diagnosed the issue correctly. I tossed in a few more good "maybes"...then you outta the sky with who knows what.
So learn some punctuation and how to separate a post so people can read it, or better yet pull over and go to sleep.
You, yourself said you've never smoked a brake....and yet you question my knowledge on how a brake peddle should feel when somebody does smoke a brake. If you've never had brakes smoke on you...then no, you don't know what if feels like....so don't tell me I'm wrong. I'm done with this...you won and can have your website back. There is some good information on here, but I did fine without it for 42 years and I'm sure I'll continue to do just fine without it again.
Last edited by ajwoodtransport; 08-27-2013 at 02:41 AM.
#38
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Please let's not let this devolve like most internet discussions.
First, pads do outgas... and I've had brakes smoking at track days.
And you do get a boundry layer between the pads and rotors, and gas isn't easily compressible, this is one reason you see slotted rotors on race cars, the other is that it helps keep crap out of the pad that will score the rotor.
Now, does everyone need slotted rotors? Well, with power brakes you generally have enough advantage to be able to punch through the gas layer (on hot brakes). Manual brakes, the slots help quite a bit when the brakes are hot and that layer builds. Do you NEED to run slotted rotors? No, most especially for a normal street car. But there are some advantages.
First, pads do outgas... and I've had brakes smoking at track days.
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Now, does everyone need slotted rotors? Well, with power brakes you generally have enough advantage to be able to punch through the gas layer (on hot brakes). Manual brakes, the slots help quite a bit when the brakes are hot and that layer builds. Do you NEED to run slotted rotors? No, most especially for a normal street car. But there are some advantages.
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Results matter. Talk is cheap. We are miles beyond the success anyone else has had with the 4th gens, and C5, C6, C7 Corvettes,
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Results matter. Talk is cheap. We are miles beyond the success anyone else has had with the 4th gens, and C5, C6, C7 Corvettes,
10 SCCA Solo National Championships, 2008 Driver of they Year, 2012 Driver of Eminence
13 SCCA Pro Solo Nationals Championships
2023 UMI King of the Mountain Champion
#39
TECH Veteran
iTrader: (23)
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Please let's not let this devolve like most internet discussions.
First, pads do outgas... and I've had brakes smoking at track days.
And you do get a boundry layer between the pads and rotors, and gas isn't easily compressible, this is one reason you see slotted rotors on race cars, the other is that it helps keep crap out of the pad that will score the rotor.
Now, does everyone need slotted rotors? Well, with power brakes you generally have enough advantage to be able to punch through the gas layer (on hot brakes). Manual brakes, the slots help quite a bit when the brakes are hot and that layer builds. Do you NEED to run slotted rotors? No, most especially for a normal street car. But there are some advantages.
First, pads do outgas... and I've had brakes smoking at track days.
![Happy](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/smilies/LS1Tech/gr_stretch.gif)
Now, does everyone need slotted rotors? Well, with power brakes you generally have enough advantage to be able to punch through the gas layer (on hot brakes). Manual brakes, the slots help quite a bit when the brakes are hot and that layer builds. Do you NEED to run slotted rotors? No, most especially for a normal street car. But there are some advantages.
Sam, while I respect your knowledege I will agree to disagree on this one.
Any modern day car with modern day pads will have no issues with pad "outgassing", especially on the street on street tires. I know everything on earth that reaches a certain temp puts off some kind of "gas". But to say it played ANY kind of roll in this instance it bullshit. Pads come with a slot in them to help with this. There is not enough gas produced in pads made for CARS nowadays for it to be any kind of issue....especially on the street.
Slotted rotors came about to help with pad glazing. To "trim" the pad to keep it "fresh" from back in the Asbestos days, still works today but pad compounds are less likely to glaze.
Since I am so hard on brakes I have done a ton of reading and talked to more than a few people on the subject.
Your diagnosis is most likely correct as most never change the brake fluid in a car...ever. It should be done once a year if you drive the car hard.
With that said, I will bow out.
#40
LS1TECH Sponsor
iTrader: (41)
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This is paramount to Coke or Pepsi. The fact is matter doesn't just disappear. Anything you heat will produce gases. From the plastic dashboad to the gasoline and air you put through the engine, water that turns to steam. Gassing is a fact, it's maybe not the end of the world for most, but it does happen.
Slots aren't to clean the face of the pad, you'll notice that slots have chamfers. If they didn't they'd act like a slicer to the pads. They give a place for stuff to go, from gas to road debris and dirt so that dirt isn't embedded into the pad and slotted rotors cut down on grooving of the rotors. Hell my sister's Buick Enclave's rear rotors, and my Dad's Ford Focus front rotors both looked like records magnified x100 they are so grooved up from crap getting jammed in the pads.
To each his own. I sell slotted and blank rotors. I'll sell drilled ones to if someone wants them, but I don't like them and never recommend them.
Slots aren't to clean the face of the pad, you'll notice that slots have chamfers. If they didn't they'd act like a slicer to the pads. They give a place for stuff to go, from gas to road debris and dirt so that dirt isn't embedded into the pad and slotted rotors cut down on grooving of the rotors. Hell my sister's Buick Enclave's rear rotors, and my Dad's Ford Focus front rotors both looked like records magnified x100 they are so grooved up from crap getting jammed in the pads.
To each his own. I sell slotted and blank rotors. I'll sell drilled ones to if someone wants them, but I don't like them and never recommend them.
__________________
www.stranoparts.com --814-849-3450
Results matter. Talk is cheap. We are miles beyond the success anyone else has had with the 4th gens, and C5, C6, C7 Corvettes,
10 SCCA Solo National Championships, 2008 Driver of they Year, 2012 Driver of Eminence
13 SCCA Pro Solo Nationals Championships
2023 UMI King of the Mountain Champion
www.stranoparts.com --814-849-3450
Results matter. Talk is cheap. We are miles beyond the success anyone else has had with the 4th gens, and C5, C6, C7 Corvettes,
10 SCCA Solo National Championships, 2008 Driver of they Year, 2012 Driver of Eminence
13 SCCA Pro Solo Nationals Championships
2023 UMI King of the Mountain Champion