pushinfreight

I was just looking through some of your post on alignment and saw where you recomended 1/32 toe out for street use. Can you explain why you are using this? Also, for the set up you mentioned in the thread:

-1.3 camber
+4.5 caster
1/32 toe out

can any alignment shop do this or is it something that needs to be done w/specific equipment. My car is a 01TA WS6.

Thanks

mitchntx

iTrader: (14)

I'm not TB, but I am one of his groupies.

Toe out helps turn in and responsiveness to steering input. It also helps high speed stability.

Any alignment shop CAN align to specific specs. However many won't because of liabilty issues or will charge an arm and a leg.

TB ... how'd I do? I still haven't received that autographed picture you promised ...

trackbird

iTrader: (4)

Oh, no, no, no. I am but one of your many groupies. You are the Jedi master, I am just a humble scribe (though I swing a pretty mean torque wrench).

Mitch pretty much nailed it. Except he meant to say that toe out can decrease high speed stability (I have not had any issues with it, but that is how it makes the car turn better). By making the car "less stable" it naturally wants to change direction, if we make it only slightly less stable, it will change direction slightly better and have little to no negative effect on daily driving.

I usually have my alignments done at NTB (or by a friend) and they will do custom specs (they have so far).

I have to get the photos in the mail (I've not mailed them to anyone yet)....

Cal

iTrader: (1)

Yes, toe out increases manueverability but decreases straight line stability, a common theme in many other areas as well. 1/32 is really too little to hurt stability; I think I had more than that wen I ran on the Salt Flats at 160 mph and had zero stability problems.

pushinfreight

So using that setup on a daily driver will not give me problems except some more agressive tire ware? And when you say high speed problems, is 130-140mph high speed? Not that I drive that fast, just need to know......

trackbird

iTrader: (4)

I run that alignment on my daily driver. I had 30k on my tires (over 20k of that on this alignment) when I replaced them and the front tires had not yet hit the wear bars (they do wear more on the inside due to the negative camber), but the rears were shot and I replaced them all at once. So, I don't think you'll have any problems. And, my car is quite stable at high speeds and very high speeds.

I used to run 3/32nds toe out on my 3rd gen as a street car and it was still more than stable enough and tire wear was still very good.

pushinfreight

Thanks for the info and watch out for those lions, Gahanna is such the wilderness

trackbird

iTrader: (4)

Gahanna Safari!!!!

4mula1

That any where near the Morse-Granville jungle

I think 90%+ of the people I've met in my life, have at one time or another lived in Columbus!

trackbird

iTrader: (4)

You notice, most of them don't live here now....

There may be a message there somewhere (though, I really like it here and Ive been here for almost 6 years now).

Remember, it's a jungle out there.

mitchntx

iTrader: (14)

You, sir are the grand PooBah of all that lives and breathes.

Doh!

Ackattack1

iTrader: (7)

I just had an alignment done, and the guy at les schwab "couldn't get to 4.5* caster" I think he said it was at like 5 or so. I got 0 toe dialed in to.

trackbird

iTrader: (4)

That will work. If you go too far on castor, you will get "heavy" steering. Some guys use 5 degrees and it works well. I prefer 4.5 but if 5 is as close as it got, it will work.

pushinfreight

If you cannot get 4.5 from the shop you have should you try for 4 or 5?

trackbird

iTrader: (4)

If you can't get 4.5, you'll probably be closer to 5. But, if 4.3 is as far as it goes, use it. If 5 (or 4.8 or something) is as close as it gets, use that. It seems that most cars do 4.3 to 6 as a range of adjustment (meant to say that they seem to run higher, actual numbers vary between cars....alot).

Kevin Hall

Toe out creates a condition called "False Ackermann". Ackermann is the geometry that makes the inside tire turn more than the outside tire in a corner. The inside tire obviously follows a smaller radius corner....so, therefore by having toe out, you can imagine how it might work.....

ASCII ILLUSTRATION 101

\ /

Straight

| /

Right Turn

\ |

Left Turn

There is some exaggeration to this, but it should get the idea across. This is quite important with POSI, as the diff action tends to lean the car from neutral to understeer.