Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

Oh, it *can* be done. Should it? That's the question I guess you have to answer for yourselves.

I think it's nuts, but I also drive my cars as intended, not like a Camry. YMMV. I know I can tell immediately if an endlink or endlink bushing is not there on a car because it becomes lazy and floppy at the end that happens, because it's made the bar non-functional.

This is a ton of wheel rate that goes missing. With that comes a ton more body roll, and even with really good shocks which slow the roll rate down, you still have a lot of actual roll. If that's what you want, well by all means go for it. But it makes little sense to me when you drag guys could just disconnect it easily at the track. Why not just do that?

Sladester2

iTrader: (1)

I only asked if it was copy and paste because before I did it I researched it a little (search button) and saw you replied to an earlier thread with almost the exact same post, my bad. And yeah, although I don't feel much difference I am putting it back on after I go to the track next weekend. No reason to run around with it off. Unless you are full time racing it only hurts, doesn't help having it off.

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

Well, I con't copy and paste. I can't answer every thread. I don't have 3 guys cruising the web at any given time looking to chime in on every answer. When I do answer, it's because I have something to say. And the fact I said the same thing ought to tell you something. I believe it.

01ssreda4

iTrader: (96)

Sorry just now seeing this. I did a drag bar in the rear, and noticed a little stiffer ride over some of the road imperfections but had somebody swapped it and I didn't know I would have had a hard time telling there was something different. Next I added skinnies (Hoosier radial 26x7.5x17) and pulled the front bar. Wow, lots of front end lift, lots of straight line traction, the car seems controlled under throttle. For the normal driving, the ride got better! Bumps were softer and upset the chassis less. Slow corners and normal city driving you cannot/will not notice. On freeway ramps or faster turns there is a little push or under steer, it feels like the car doesn't react as crisp as it did with the bigger tires and SLP bar. But once you're used to it you adjust. Traveling recommended speeds around corners is no issue. I wouldn't play speed racer with this setup. I do understand Sams point of view. The problem with it is, he is really good at what he does. Really good, and that will always make his opinion biased. And, mine is as well. Straight line speed is the name of the game and not a ton else matters. I've deleted the power drivers seat, abs, front sway, and airbags in my car. To me my car still functions 100% with next to no negative. I did panic stop my car with skinnies and no abs so I know where the lockup point is. That's what you do as a responsible driver, know your limits when you "de-engineer" you're car.

Randolph Ziskey

iTrader: (13)

Well put 01ssreda4!!!!

ElkySS

iTrader: (6)

I haven't deleted my front sway bar yet but the way I see it, if you're already running skinnies up front, you aren't taking any corners fast anyway

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

EXACTLY ElkySS, exactly. If you are running around on 3.5" front wheels, it's hysterical to think you are driving a setup that is indicative of how the car handles. One's definition of that car handling "ok" is very, very different from mine. I don't think think a '69 Camaro handles ok, but some do.

themealonwheels

iTrader: (20)

I wanted to weigh in here because I recently took off my front sway bar. Based on a response you gave to another "front sway bar" thread, I was initially afraid to take a turn faster than 5MPH with a 275 tire up front without the bar. But I wanted the weight savings, so I went out on a limb. I even kept the bar "for long trips".

Once I realized that you used sensational words like "insane", "fiery death" and "hysterical" to get your OPINION across, I found it to be a very comfortable ride. Over time I kept pushing the limit, just to see what I was working with. I now take the roundabout in my neighborhood at 20MPH in my 2012 Mazda 3 hatchback and in my 2002 Z28 that just recently got 7" wide wheels up front. Both are comfortable to me.

So to all those who have wondered what it's like, I'd say try it out by removing your end links and securing the bar to something to avoid contact with other suspension components. Take a drive and test the turns safely. If you feel comfortable, take it out. Evaluate for yourself, don't believe the hype.

BMR Sales2

iTrader: (40)

I definitely think these two responses explain it about as good as it can be explained.

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

Perfect, and just what I'd expect from the internet.

I am good at what I do, which is deal with making suspensions work. If you don't want that then by all means, do whatever. But I find it pretty painful to hear you think I'm spinning something. I wasn't trying to push parts. I don't sit here all day doing that. I was being honest, and this is the thanks I get for it.

BMR Sales2

iTrader: (40)

Sorry, we all forgot that you are the suspension god. We better all crawl back into our holes and let you preach your gospel. Everybody isn't going to be a Strano minion and have the same opinion you do. If someone doesn't agree with you it doesn't mean they are necessarily wrong but that they just might have a differing opinion. What is tolerable for one person may not be for another and so on. You are not going to get thanks from anyone when all you do is tell them that their opinion is wrong, so good luck with that.

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

That's very grown up Kyle.

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

The question was not can you drive the car without the bar. The question was, as I recall it, was does it effect handling. It does.

BMR Sales2

iTrader: (40)

I don't think anything I said was childish at all. You like to get mad and try to talk down to anybody that disagrees with you. People have differing opinions so deal with it and stop trying to play the victim when people don't agree with you.

Here is the actual initial post from this thread:

"Does removing one end link basically give the weight transfer benefits of removing the sway bar? Or do I need to remove both? If possible Id rather just take off one of course"

01ssreda4

iTrader: (96)

Hey, I like you Sam. You seem like a super smart guy when it comes to suspension. If I ever, ever, need a car to handle, you'll be the man I call. Now, re-read the bolded above. Read it as many times as it takes to set in. "Work" is relative to the task at hand. Your suspension will not "work" as well as a drag oriented suspension for my car. Because our ideas of "work" are different, and our goals are different. My goals will never be yours, and yours will never be mine, just two different perspectives for the tasks at hand.

Corvett z07

iTrader: (2)

Man the front sway bar has got to be the most controversial part if someone should remove it or not.

I can find both perspectives of Kyle and Sam here. Sam autocrosses and finds that a front sway bar is optimal in a car and is needed, I'm guessing you could feel the difference instantly between if a sway bar had poly vs rubber bushings. While Kyle deals with both track and autocrossing suspension. To remove it effectively, it should only be removed at the track according to Sam because he is more prone to it being there and notices a much major difference when it's not there. BMR *mainly* deals with straight-line traction, which isn't as necessary to even run a front bar.

I've experienced driving without one and as long as I was on decent roads it felt fine. Under long harder corners I felt it lean more than it's supposed to and when there are a series of road imperfections the front end tended to get a little squirrelly. What I've gotten out of it is yes you certainly can drive without one; however, that depends on if the environment you live in is nice (doesn't snow or rain much), if your roads are actually good and without potholes, if you drive it mainly for street driving where there's not much traffic to switch between lanes especially on highways, and if you don't have animals that jump out in front of your car at night (making a quick maneuver basically.) I need that sway bar in my car because I do a lot of those things that I mentioned and it comes into play a lot when I'm driving.

OP disconnecting both would be optimal as if one is still connected it does still have some tension on the a-arm and that side wouldn't have the same suspension travel tendencies as the other, mainly if you are pulling your front end up a lot though.

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

Look, I'm not saying you can't run without a bar. Is everyone clear on that? I'm saying it's irresponsible to say that it has no effect to run without one. There is a difference.

Now, let me be more clear. You can't have it both ways, you can't claim that a bar makes no difference to speak of while selling bigger bars to other folks. This is a pretty common thing that happens when people try and speak out of both sides of their mouths to tell you want you want to hear.

Additionally, once again I didn't tell anyone they needed a bigger bar, or my bars, or whatever.

I wonder why it is that more performance oriented cars get more bar and not have bars removed? Hmmm, oh right because most cars are street driven (not raced, just street driven) and might occasionally be taken drag racing. If you want to compromise your car for how it's driven most of the time again that's 100% fine. But stop with the makes no difference attitude that's simply not being truthful.

Corvett z07

iTrader: (2)

^ It's possible to run without one, but I wouldn't recommend it either. I ran without one for 2 days (I was switching out the bushings and endlinks to poly but I kind of got rained out for 2 days) and was relieved when I put it back on, Indiana doesn't exactly have the best driving roads or weather around...

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

Thank goodness some understands what I'm saying. I think the word "relieved" says it all.

BMR Sales2

iTrader: (40)

I think plenty of people understand what you are saying including myself but some of us just don't agree with the severity/complications that can come from driving with the front sway bar removed. You make it seem like the car is uncontrollable with no front sway bar and that is not the case as long as you drive responsible.