First-Time Budget Suspension Refresh/Upgrade....Need opinions!
10-21-2014, 04:16 PM
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First-Time Budget Suspension Refresh/Upgrade....Need opinions! After spending the last couple of years putting money into building some HP, I've come to the realization that I now need to focus on the handling of my '02 Z28. The car is in good shape, especially considering that it has 204,000 miles on it, but I learned this past weekend while on a cruise through some mountain roads that it needs some help.
The goal is to build a decent canyon carver on a budget...One that won't be embarrassed by a stock 5th-gen SS or CTS-V on a mountain road.
The car is a 2002 Z28 with an iron-block 6.0 liter and LS3 heads. It's putting down just shy of 490 RWHP. Wheels are C5 Z06 replicas and are 17"x9". The car sits slightly lower than stock in the front due to the iron block. The only suspension mods are a shock tower brace and a set of KYB Gas-Adjust shocks that were installed by the original owner, but I have no idea how many miles are on them. The suspension feels reasonably tight and doesn't make any noises, though I do have a vibration of the whole car under braking, which is not related to the rotors, but most likely, the outer tie-rod ends.
With 200,000+ miles, I'm sure most of the bushings and stuff need replacement, and to my knowledge, none of this has been done on the car previously, so this is what I'm tackling first. Since money is an object, I need to do this in phases, so here's my plan:
Phase 1: Refresh the front suspension with the following parts:
Moog Upper & Lower Ball Joints
Moog Inner & Outer Tie Rod Ends
Moog Upper & Lower Control Arm Bushings
BMR 35MM Hollow Sway Bar
Koni STR.T Front Shocks
Phase 2: Address Rear Suspension:
Koni STR.T Rear Shocks
UMI Adjustable Rear Control Arms
Phase 3: Additional Upgrades
UMI Non-Adjustable Panhard Bar
UMI Non-Adjustable Torque Arm
As a side note, I've decided to not change the springs, as every spring set I've seen lowers the car. With the iron block up front, the car already sits lower than stock, which causes a lot of scraping of my long tube-headers and true-dual exhaust.
Keeping in mind that this is a budget-minded build, am I on the right track for building a good-handling 4th-gen? Are there pieces that I should be looking at instead of the ones listed, and if so, why?
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!
The goal is to build a decent canyon carver on a budget...One that won't be embarrassed by a stock 5th-gen SS or CTS-V on a mountain road.
The car is a 2002 Z28 with an iron-block 6.0 liter and LS3 heads. It's putting down just shy of 490 RWHP. Wheels are C5 Z06 replicas and are 17"x9". The car sits slightly lower than stock in the front due to the iron block. The only suspension mods are a shock tower brace and a set of KYB Gas-Adjust shocks that were installed by the original owner, but I have no idea how many miles are on them. The suspension feels reasonably tight and doesn't make any noises, though I do have a vibration of the whole car under braking, which is not related to the rotors, but most likely, the outer tie-rod ends.
With 200,000+ miles, I'm sure most of the bushings and stuff need replacement, and to my knowledge, none of this has been done on the car previously, so this is what I'm tackling first. Since money is an object, I need to do this in phases, so here's my plan:
Phase 1: Refresh the front suspension with the following parts:
Moog Upper & Lower Ball Joints
Moog Inner & Outer Tie Rod Ends
Moog Upper & Lower Control Arm Bushings
BMR 35MM Hollow Sway Bar
Koni STR.T Front Shocks
Phase 2: Address Rear Suspension:
Koni STR.T Rear Shocks
UMI Adjustable Rear Control Arms
Phase 3: Additional Upgrades
UMI Non-Adjustable Panhard Bar
UMI Non-Adjustable Torque Arm
As a side note, I've decided to not change the springs, as every spring set I've seen lowers the car. With the iron block up front, the car already sits lower than stock, which causes a lot of scraping of my long tube-headers and true-dual exhaust.
Keeping in mind that this is a budget-minded build, am I on the right track for building a good-handling 4th-gen? Are there pieces that I should be looking at instead of the ones listed, and if so, why?
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!
10-21-2014, 05:04 PM
#2
A few things to note here.
I happen to have most of Moog parts on my shelf right now. I also have Koni STR.T's in stock. And I sell UMI too.
I would not recommend a 35mm front bar without a rear bar to help balance things. You can do it if you wish, but the result is the front has better roll control than the rear and the car feels disjointed and tends to understeer more too. A suspension is about balance. You can go too far too, like a 25mm rear bar I think is too big and tends to make the solid axle more skippy, and hurts power down out of corners too as the bigger the rear bar the more it levers up the inside rear tire.
I'd recommend my bars, in this case I'd actually recommend the adjustable rear over the standard so you have the option to trim the balance to help offset the fact you carry more front weight. The Koni STR.T's are a good street shock for control.
As for the Torque Arm I'd highly recommend adjustable because not every car is tolerant of the same pinion angle change. A non-adjustable PHB is fine if you don't care to shift the body vs. the axle.
I'd start with the bushings and balljoints, if bad. Then shocks (all 4). Then move to the torque arm, PHB, etc. A Torque arm is not a handling part anyway, though bad ones can cause issues... good ones do a job separate from from handling.
I'm trying to remember you budget here, and recommend parts that do the best job for your without skimping. You could save some money for sure by running an non-adjustable rear sway bar but it also limits your options. For not a lot more you get what are basically 3 rear bars in one do allow you tuning the balance of the car. The stiffest of which is closer to a 25mm bar, but the softest of which is a 22mm bar. Typically I do that bar only on cars with staggered tires, or a Watts link which lowers the roll center and basically softens the bar rate. However you have a more nose heavy car which could benefit from an adjustable rear, even more so if you have a staggered tire setup.
I happen to have most of Moog parts on my shelf right now. I also have Koni STR.T's in stock. And I sell UMI too.
I would not recommend a 35mm front bar without a rear bar to help balance things. You can do it if you wish, but the result is the front has better roll control than the rear and the car feels disjointed and tends to understeer more too. A suspension is about balance. You can go too far too, like a 25mm rear bar I think is too big and tends to make the solid axle more skippy, and hurts power down out of corners too as the bigger the rear bar the more it levers up the inside rear tire.
I'd recommend my bars, in this case I'd actually recommend the adjustable rear over the standard so you have the option to trim the balance to help offset the fact you carry more front weight. The Koni STR.T's are a good street shock for control.
As for the Torque Arm I'd highly recommend adjustable because not every car is tolerant of the same pinion angle change. A non-adjustable PHB is fine if you don't care to shift the body vs. the axle.
I'd start with the bushings and balljoints, if bad. Then shocks (all 4). Then move to the torque arm, PHB, etc. A Torque arm is not a handling part anyway, though bad ones can cause issues... good ones do a job separate from from handling.
I'm trying to remember you budget here, and recommend parts that do the best job for your without skimping. You could save some money for sure by running an non-adjustable rear sway bar but it also limits your options. For not a lot more you get what are basically 3 rear bars in one do allow you tuning the balance of the car. The stiffest of which is closer to a 25mm bar, but the softest of which is a 22mm bar. Typically I do that bar only on cars with staggered tires, or a Watts link which lowers the roll center and basically softens the bar rate. However you have a more nose heavy car which could benefit from an adjustable rear, even more so if you have a staggered tire setup.
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www.stranoparts.com --814-849-3450
Results matter. Talk is cheap. We are miles beyond the success anyone else has had with the 4th gens, and C5, C6, C7 Corvettes,
10 SCCA Solo National Championships, 2008 Driver of they Year, 2012 Driver of Eminence
13 SCCA Pro Solo Nationals Championships
2023 UMI King of the Mountain Champion
10-21-2014, 05:21 PM
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I already ordered the Moog parts yesterday, as I knew I would be needing this stuff anyway.
As for the sequence of the upgrades, it does make sense to do all 4 shocks at the time I install the new bushings and ball joints. I'll still only need one alignment, which is why I was going to do the front and rear separately.
Also, given my concerns about not lowering the car, will I be happy with the stock springs, or are there some that you could recommend?
As for the sequence of the upgrades, it does make sense to do all 4 shocks at the time I install the new bushings and ball joints. I'll still only need one alignment, which is why I was going to do the front and rear separately.
Also, given my concerns about not lowering the car, will I be happy with the stock springs, or are there some that you could recommend?
10-21-2014, 05:35 PM
#5
Just thought I'd mention it. 
The shocks on this car do not effect the alignment. You *could* do them later, but it makes no sense to do it that way since you are already to a point the fronts are out of the car. Unless you want to do a lot of the same work twice. If you can financially swing it, makes sense to do the front shocks at the same time.
The rear shocks, well... that's a different job and you don't have the issues of tearing a lot off to do the shocks at a different time than the PHB or TA, etc.
But. There's always a "but". If you do front shocks and not rears, you'll get a better front end and realize just how goofy the rear is, which frankly drives folks more nuts than if all 4 are out to lunch. I would encourage you to do all the shocks at the same time if you can. If you can't, you can't.
BTW, my bars come really beefy brackets, I don't just grab some off the shelf Energy Suspension stuff and slap it in. I also do not use greaseable bushings, as they have been known to split from the hole. I tried using them years ago, that's how I figured out I didn't want to.
The shocks on this car do not effect the alignment. You *could* do them later, but it makes no sense to do it that way since you are already to a point the fronts are out of the car. Unless you want to do a lot of the same work twice. If you can financially swing it, makes sense to do the front shocks at the same time.
The rear shocks, well... that's a different job and you don't have the issues of tearing a lot off to do the shocks at a different time than the PHB or TA, etc.
But.
There's always a "but". If you do front shocks and not rears, you'll get a better front end and realize just how goofy the rear is, which frankly drives folks more nuts than if all 4 are out to lunch. I would encourage you to do all the shocks at the same time if you can. If you can't, you can't. BTW, my bars come really beefy brackets, I don't just grab some off the shelf Energy Suspension stuff and slap it in. I also do not use greaseable bushings, as they have been known to split from the hole. I tried using them years ago, that's how I figured out I didn't want to.
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www.stranoparts.com --814-849-3450
Results matter. Talk is cheap. We are miles beyond the success anyone else has had with the 4th gens, and C5, C6, C7 Corvettes,
10 SCCA Solo National Championships, 2008 Driver of they Year, 2012 Driver of Eminence
13 SCCA Pro Solo Nationals Championships
2023 UMI King of the Mountain Champion
www.stranoparts.com --814-849-3450
Results matter. Talk is cheap. We are miles beyond the success anyone else has had with the 4th gens, and C5, C6, C7 Corvettes,
10 SCCA Solo National Championships, 2008 Driver of they Year, 2012 Driver of Eminence
13 SCCA Pro Solo Nationals Championships
2023 UMI King of the Mountain Champion
10-21-2014, 05:41 PM
#6
As for the springs: If you don't want to lower the car, then the only thing you can really do is A: find some 1LE fronts for it which are now super rare but stiffer to help hold the greater weight, or B: Run a good coil-over set that allows you to raise the height back up. But those will shoot your budget to hell, and a good one doesn't mean "any" coil-over kit.
Nope, I think given what you'd said the stock springs are the best bet. Maybe with a spacer under the shock if you want to raise the car slightly.
Nope, I think given what you'd said the stock springs are the best bet. Maybe with a spacer under the shock if you want to raise the car slightly.
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www.stranoparts.com --814-849-3450
Results matter. Talk is cheap. We are miles beyond the success anyone else has had with the 4th gens, and C5, C6, C7 Corvettes,
10 SCCA Solo National Championships, 2008 Driver of they Year, 2012 Driver of Eminence
13 SCCA Pro Solo Nationals Championships
2023 UMI King of the Mountain Champion
www.stranoparts.com --814-849-3450
Results matter. Talk is cheap. We are miles beyond the success anyone else has had with the 4th gens, and C5, C6, C7 Corvettes,
10 SCCA Solo National Championships, 2008 Driver of they Year, 2012 Driver of Eminence
13 SCCA Pro Solo Nationals Championships
2023 UMI King of the Mountain Champion
10-21-2014, 07:05 PM
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First off: definitely listen to Sam, he knows what he's doing and he takes in budget along with what you want out of your car.
You're on a good track to what you're thinking about freshening up your suspension and improving it also. It makes sense that you would replace the front shocks while you do you ball joints, bushings, etc at the same time because you'll have the front suspension out anyways (only have to do it once and it'll be less time.) For reiteration, front and rear sway bars should be balanced out between each other, that could even be part of Phase 2 that you have planned out, they're pretty simple to take out and put a new one in. At the very least get new bushings and endlinks for the rear sway bar. IMO switch the panhard bar to phase 2 and the lower control arms to phase 3. When you do the control arms and torque arm, you'll notice it hook much better vs. handling characteristics. Look into a tunnel-mounted torque arm too.
Not sure if you know this, but if I recall correctly, the 93-97 F-body's had a higher spring rate in the fronts, hence the LT1 block was iron and they needed a higher spring rate in the front to balance out the heavier front end vs the aluminum block LS1. The 98-02 F-body's I believe had a higher spring rate for the rear though, you should be set on your rear springs. Something to think about.
I may be in the market to sell my front Koni Str.ts too...
You're on a good track to what you're thinking about freshening up your suspension and improving it also. It makes sense that you would replace the front shocks while you do you ball joints, bushings, etc at the same time because you'll have the front suspension out anyways (only have to do it once and it'll be less time.) For reiteration, front and rear sway bars should be balanced out between each other, that could even be part of Phase 2 that you have planned out, they're pretty simple to take out and put a new one in. At the very least get new bushings and endlinks for the rear sway bar. IMO switch the panhard bar to phase 2 and the lower control arms to phase 3. When you do the control arms and torque arm, you'll notice it hook much better vs. handling characteristics. Look into a tunnel-mounted torque arm too.
Not sure if you know this, but if I recall correctly, the 93-97 F-body's had a higher spring rate in the fronts, hence the LT1 block was iron and they needed a higher spring rate in the front to balance out the heavier front end vs the aluminum block LS1. The 98-02 F-body's I believe had a higher spring rate for the rear though, you should be set on your rear springs. Something to think about.
I may be in the market to sell my front Koni Str.ts too...
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10-21-2014, 10:50 PM
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First off: definitely listen to Sam, he knows what he's doing and he takes in budget along with what you want out of your car.
You're on a good track to what you're thinking about freshening up your suspension and improving it also. It makes sense that you would replace the front shocks while you do you ball joints, bushings, etc at the same time because you'll have the front suspension out anyways (only have to do it once and it'll be less time.) For reiteration, front and rear sway bars should be balanced out between each other, that could even be part of Phase 2 that you have planned out, they're pretty simple to take out and put a new one in. At the very least get new bushings and endlinks for the rear sway bar. IMO switch the panhard bar to phase 2 and the lower control arms to phase 3. When you do the control arms and torque arm, you'll notice it hook much better vs. handling characteristics. Look into a tunnel-mounted torque arm too.
Not sure if you know this, but if I recall correctly, the 93-97 F-body's had a higher spring rate in the fronts, hence the LT1 block was iron and they needed a higher spring rate in the front to balance out the heavier front end vs the aluminum block LS1. The 98-02 F-body's I believe had a higher spring rate for the rear though, you should be set on your rear springs. Something to think about.
I may be in the market to sell my front Koni Str.ts too...
You're on a good track to what you're thinking about freshening up your suspension and improving it also. It makes sense that you would replace the front shocks while you do you ball joints, bushings, etc at the same time because you'll have the front suspension out anyways (only have to do it once and it'll be less time.) For reiteration, front and rear sway bars should be balanced out between each other, that could even be part of Phase 2 that you have planned out, they're pretty simple to take out and put a new one in. At the very least get new bushings and endlinks for the rear sway bar. IMO switch the panhard bar to phase 2 and the lower control arms to phase 3. When you do the control arms and torque arm, you'll notice it hook much better vs. handling characteristics. Look into a tunnel-mounted torque arm too.
Not sure if you know this, but if I recall correctly, the 93-97 F-body's had a higher spring rate in the fronts, hence the LT1 block was iron and they needed a higher spring rate in the front to balance out the heavier front end vs the aluminum block LS1. The 98-02 F-body's I believe had a higher spring rate for the rear though, you should be set on your rear springs. Something to think about.
I may be in the market to sell my front Koni Str.ts too...
After reading Sam's comments, I moved all 4 shocks to phase 1, and then both sway bars to phase 2. I'm also going with the adjustable rear bar, per Sam's suggestion.
Sounds like the LCA's can wait, so I'll probably do the PHB and torque arm sooner, rather than late. BTW- What's the benefit to the tunnel mounted arm versus the one that bolts to the trans? Will this even work with true duals?
I'll definitely look into the LT1 springs, as that might be a solution for the ride height!
10-22-2014, 08:29 AM
#9
My suggestion would be to do adjustable PHB and RLCA so that you can now do a full, four wheel alignment (don't forget to check thrust angle).
IMO, which is more anecdotal than anything, is a preference to the transmission mounted torque arm setup only if doing the relocation bracket/cross member. This is certainly a pricier setup, and I believe one is better served doing all the other suspension first if on a budget, especially if looking to tighten things up.
Here's what my 2002 SS had at ~70k miles; it felt more "connected" than even my 2000 SS did when I got it with only 12k miles:
UMI Performance front upper control arms (non-adjustable) #2311
UMI Performance front lower control arms (adjustable; street) #2305
UMI Performance subframe connectors (two-point; bolt-on) #2002
UMI Performance rear lower control arms (single-adjustable; rod/poly) #2016
UMI Performance rear lower control arm relocation brackets (bolt-on) #2012
UMI Performance panhard bar (single-adjustable; rod/poly) #2021
UMI Performance shock tower brace #2005
Energy Suspension sway bar bushings
Prothane transmission mount
Prothane torque arm mount
Prothane engine mounts
Energy Suspension sway bar end links
SLP [Eibach] lowering springs
SLP [Bilstein] shocks
The only item I would change if I could do it over again would be to have gone with Sam's springs rather than the SLP. With that said, I don't think you would want Sam's springs considering you don't want to lower your car. You may, however, want to consider the SLP springs as they have a tendency to create the "reverse rake" appearance. With that said, Sam (and others) could certainly explain spring rates much, much better than I can, so even the SLP springs may not be in your best interest if looking for all new parts.
Keep in mind that some people will suggest the biggest and best stuff simply based on a mystical assumption that everyone who wants to tighten up their suspension is a professional race car driver each and every weekend of the year. One needs to understand their realistic driving habits and environment, compare to their budget, and choose parts confidently from there. This doesn't necessarily mean that the "experts" are wrong in their suggestions; however, they may not be right for each and every individual. Context is key.
IMO, which is more anecdotal than anything, is a preference to the transmission mounted torque arm setup only if doing the relocation bracket/cross member. This is certainly a pricier setup, and I believe one is better served doing all the other suspension first if on a budget, especially if looking to tighten things up.
Here's what my 2002 SS had at ~70k miles; it felt more "connected" than even my 2000 SS did when I got it with only 12k miles:
UMI Performance front upper control arms (non-adjustable) #2311
UMI Performance front lower control arms (adjustable; street) #2305
UMI Performance subframe connectors (two-point; bolt-on) #2002
UMI Performance rear lower control arms (single-adjustable; rod/poly) #2016
UMI Performance rear lower control arm relocation brackets (bolt-on) #2012
UMI Performance panhard bar (single-adjustable; rod/poly) #2021
UMI Performance shock tower brace #2005
Energy Suspension sway bar bushings
Prothane transmission mount
Prothane torque arm mount
Prothane engine mounts
Energy Suspension sway bar end links
SLP [Eibach] lowering springs
SLP [Bilstein] shocks
The only item I would change if I could do it over again would be to have gone with Sam's springs rather than the SLP. With that said, I don't think you would want Sam's springs considering you don't want to lower your car. You may, however, want to consider the SLP springs as they have a tendency to create the "reverse rake" appearance. With that said, Sam (and others) could certainly explain spring rates much, much better than I can, so even the SLP springs may not be in your best interest if looking for all new parts.
Keep in mind that some people will suggest the biggest and best stuff simply based on a mystical assumption that everyone who wants to tighten up their suspension is a professional race car driver each and every weekend of the year. One needs to understand their realistic driving habits and environment, compare to their budget, and choose parts confidently from there. This doesn't necessarily mean that the "experts" are wrong in their suggestions; however, they may not be right for each and every individual. Context is key.
Last edited by demonspeed; 10-22-2014 at 08:35 AM.
10-22-2014, 12:20 PM
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My suggestion would be to do adjustable PHB and RLCA so that you can now do a full, four wheel alignment (don't forget to check thrust angle).
IMO, which is more anecdotal than anything, is a preference to the transmission mounted torque arm setup only if doing the relocation bracket/cross member. This is certainly a pricier setup, and I believe one is better served doing all the other suspension first if on a budget, especially if looking to tighten things up.
Here's what my 2002 SS had at ~70k miles; it felt more "connected" than even my 2000 SS did when I got it with only 12k miles:
UMI Performance front upper control arms (non-adjustable) #2311
UMI Performance front lower control arms (adjustable; street) #2305
UMI Performance subframe connectors (two-point; bolt-on) #2002
UMI Performance rear lower control arms (single-adjustable; rod/poly) #2016
UMI Performance rear lower control arm relocation brackets (bolt-on) #2012
UMI Performance panhard bar (single-adjustable; rod/poly) #2021
UMI Performance shock tower brace #2005
Energy Suspension sway bar bushings
Prothane transmission mount
Prothane torque arm mount
Prothane engine mounts
Energy Suspension sway bar end links
SLP [Eibach] lowering springs
SLP [Bilstein] shocks
The only item I would change if I could do it over again would be to have gone with Sam's springs rather than the SLP. With that said, I don't think you would want Sam's springs considering you don't want to lower your car. You may, however, want to consider the SLP springs as they have a tendency to create the "reverse rake" appearance. With that said, Sam (and others) could certainly explain spring rates much, much better than I can, so even the SLP springs may not be in your best interest if looking for all new parts.
Keep in mind that some people will suggest the biggest and best stuff simply based on a mystical assumption that everyone who wants to tighten up their suspension is a professional race car driver each and every weekend of the year. One needs to understand their realistic driving habits and environment, compare to their budget, and choose parts confidently from there. This doesn't necessarily mean that the "experts" are wrong in their suggestions; however, they may not be right for each and every individual. Context is key.
IMO, which is more anecdotal than anything, is a preference to the transmission mounted torque arm setup only if doing the relocation bracket/cross member. This is certainly a pricier setup, and I believe one is better served doing all the other suspension first if on a budget, especially if looking to tighten things up.
Here's what my 2002 SS had at ~70k miles; it felt more "connected" than even my 2000 SS did when I got it with only 12k miles:
UMI Performance front upper control arms (non-adjustable) #2311
UMI Performance front lower control arms (adjustable; street) #2305
UMI Performance subframe connectors (two-point; bolt-on) #2002
UMI Performance rear lower control arms (single-adjustable; rod/poly) #2016
UMI Performance rear lower control arm relocation brackets (bolt-on) #2012
UMI Performance panhard bar (single-adjustable; rod/poly) #2021
UMI Performance shock tower brace #2005
Energy Suspension sway bar bushings
Prothane transmission mount
Prothane torque arm mount
Prothane engine mounts
Energy Suspension sway bar end links
SLP [Eibach] lowering springs
SLP [Bilstein] shocks
The only item I would change if I could do it over again would be to have gone with Sam's springs rather than the SLP. With that said, I don't think you would want Sam's springs considering you don't want to lower your car. You may, however, want to consider the SLP springs as they have a tendency to create the "reverse rake" appearance. With that said, Sam (and others) could certainly explain spring rates much, much better than I can, so even the SLP springs may not be in your best interest if looking for all new parts.
Keep in mind that some people will suggest the biggest and best stuff simply based on a mystical assumption that everyone who wants to tighten up their suspension is a professional race car driver each and every weekend of the year. One needs to understand their realistic driving habits and environment, compare to their budget, and choose parts confidently from there. This doesn't necessarily mean that the "experts" are wrong in their suggestions; however, they may not be right for each and every individual. Context is key.
As to my driving habits, I live in the mountains and drive a pretty fun road every day. I thought the car handled fairly well, but that was until I learned over the weekend that I had trouble staying with cars making 200 or more RWHP less than me in the curves. It's not that I'm constantly racing, but my car should be able to pull away from a mildly modded Cobalt SS turbo instead having trouble keeping up with it. And I would think it would be a lot more fun, too, if my car turned a little better.
Anyway, I think the combo I have picked out, with some of the changes suggested by Sam, should help me meet my goals and still keep me out of trouble with the wife for not spending too much dough!
What I'm most curious about is, how much improvement I feel with just the new bushings, ball joints and Koni shocks. 204,000 is a lot of miles, and ever though the car doesn't feel loose, I'm guessing that these new parts will make a big difference.
10-22-2014, 01:10 PM
#12
Oh, I'm guessing if you pay attention to what it does you'll feel two particular things with dampers of that age (assuming they are).
A feeling of kind of floating or bobbing, not having the car "in the road". And impact harshness that makes you cringe, so bad you might cringe when you see things coming. The sharper the bump (frost heaves, railroad tracks, etc) are the worst.
A feeling of kind of floating or bobbing, not having the car "in the road". And impact harshness that makes you cringe, so bad you might cringe when you see things coming. The sharper the bump (frost heaves, railroad tracks, etc) are the worst.
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Results matter. Talk is cheap. We are miles beyond the success anyone else has had with the 4th gens, and C5, C6, C7 Corvettes,
10 SCCA Solo National Championships, 2008 Driver of they Year, 2012 Driver of Eminence
13 SCCA Pro Solo Nationals Championships
2023 UMI King of the Mountain Champion
www.stranoparts.com --814-849-3450
Results matter. Talk is cheap. We are miles beyond the success anyone else has had with the 4th gens, and C5, C6, C7 Corvettes,
10 SCCA Solo National Championships, 2008 Driver of they Year, 2012 Driver of Eminence
13 SCCA Pro Solo Nationals Championships
2023 UMI King of the Mountain Champion
10-22-2014, 01:23 PM
#13
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THIS!! ^ Bumps like these hit HARD.
10-22-2014, 02:07 PM
#14
One of the things with me is I am a car guy. Had a lot, driven even more. My best friend has a Cobalt SS. I've had Mustangs, and GTI's and Focus ST's, and FR-S's, and Corvettes, and E36 BMW's, and on and on. I learn things from that background.
The Cobalt SS is a super underrated car. Due in no small part to the fact it was tuned by an SCCA racer with championships. Not bad for a car with a beam axle in the back huh? Of course you have to consider things like tires and the like.. but with your setup, assuming you have good (and I mean capable not good tread) tires, the shocks will screw you corners that aren't perfectly smooth where he wasn't likely getting skipped around as much.
The Cobalt SS is a super underrated car. Due in no small part to the fact it was tuned by an SCCA racer with championships.
Not bad for a car with a beam axle in the back huh? Of course you have to consider things like tires and the like.. but with your setup, assuming you have good (and I mean capable not good tread) tires, the shocks will screw you corners that aren't perfectly smooth where he wasn't likely getting skipped around as much.
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www.stranoparts.com --814-849-3450
Results matter. Talk is cheap. We are miles beyond the success anyone else has had with the 4th gens, and C5, C6, C7 Corvettes,
10 SCCA Solo National Championships, 2008 Driver of they Year, 2012 Driver of Eminence
13 SCCA Pro Solo Nationals Championships
2023 UMI King of the Mountain Champion
www.stranoparts.com --814-849-3450
Results matter. Talk is cheap. We are miles beyond the success anyone else has had with the 4th gens, and C5, C6, C7 Corvettes,
10 SCCA Solo National Championships, 2008 Driver of they Year, 2012 Driver of Eminence
13 SCCA Pro Solo Nationals Championships
2023 UMI King of the Mountain Champion
10-22-2014, 02:25 PM
#15
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I know what you mean, those bumps you just cringe and hope something doesn't break! This past spring my brother took his car out for a quick spin after it being stored up during the winter and he was in tight traffic, hit a pothole and dented and cracked one of his c5 Z06 wheels. I think that's why I'm leery to spend any money on a good product...
BTW, I checked up on the LT1 front springs. They are a higher spring rate but it's not by much, like 18 pounds and that's all. As far as the torque arm relocation cross member, it's mainly for higher horsepower insurance so you don't break off your tranny tail shaft and yeah you're more than likely gonna have that thing banging your true duals or even in the way of your exhaust. You could easily be fine without it also.
Want to hear the results! Keep the thread updated!
BTW, I checked up on the LT1 front springs. They are a higher spring rate but it's not by much, like 18 pounds and that's all. As far as the torque arm relocation cross member, it's mainly for higher horsepower insurance so you don't break off your tranny tail shaft and yeah you're more than likely gonna have that thing banging your true duals or even in the way of your exhaust. You could easily be fine without it also.
Want to hear the results! Keep the thread updated!
10-22-2014, 02:33 PM
#16
Wait, what? You've lost me. I'm not sure who you are talking to. And when you say LT1 springs I assume you mean vs. LS1, but are you talking about stock to stock or Eibach to Eibach or what? Yes LT1 fronts are stiffer then LS1 fronts, but also are wound differently so you'd be about a wash on height if the plan was to change from GM to GM springs there.
The wheel issue your brother had wasn't the suspension's fault. I hit a huge hole last year in New Mexico in my FR-S which destroyed two wheels. It happens sometimes.
The wheel issue your brother had wasn't the suspension's fault. I hit a huge hole last year in New Mexico in my FR-S which destroyed two wheels. It happens sometimes.
__________________
www.stranoparts.com --814-849-3450
Results matter. Talk is cheap. We are miles beyond the success anyone else has had with the 4th gens, and C5, C6, C7 Corvettes,
10 SCCA Solo National Championships, 2008 Driver of they Year, 2012 Driver of Eminence
13 SCCA Pro Solo Nationals Championships
2023 UMI King of the Mountain Champion
www.stranoparts.com --814-849-3450
Results matter. Talk is cheap. We are miles beyond the success anyone else has had with the 4th gens, and C5, C6, C7 Corvettes,
10 SCCA Solo National Championships, 2008 Driver of they Year, 2012 Driver of Eminence
13 SCCA Pro Solo Nationals Championships
2023 UMI King of the Mountain Champion
10-22-2014, 02:52 PM
#18
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The Cobalt SS is a super underrated car. Due in no small part to the fact it was tuned by an SCCA racer with championships.
Not bad for a car with a beam axle in the back huh? Of course you have to consider things like tires and the like.. but with your setup, assuming you have good (and I mean capable not good tread) tires, the shocks will screw you corners that aren't perfectly smooth where he wasn't likely getting skipped around as much.I know what you mean, those bumps you just cringe and hope something doesn't break! This past spring my brother took his car out for a quick spin after it being stored up during the winter and he was in tight traffic, hit a pothole and dented and cracked one of his c5 Z06 wheels. I think that's why I'm leery to spend any money on a good product...
BTW, I checked up on the LT1 front springs. They are a higher spring rate but it's not by much, like 18 pounds and that's all. As far as the torque arm relocation cross member, it's mainly for higher horsepower insurance so you don't break off your tranny tail shaft and yeah you're more than likely gonna have that thing banging your true duals or even in the way of your exhaust. You could easily be fine without it also.
Want to hear the results! Keep the thread updated!
BTW, I checked up on the LT1 front springs. They are a higher spring rate but it's not by much, like 18 pounds and that's all. As far as the torque arm relocation cross member, it's mainly for higher horsepower insurance so you don't break off your tranny tail shaft and yeah you're more than likely gonna have that thing banging your true duals or even in the way of your exhaust. You could easily be fine without it also.
Want to hear the results! Keep the thread updated!
Wait, what? You've lost me. I'm not sure who you are talking to. And when you say LT1 springs I assume you mean vs. LS1, but are you talking about stock to stock or Eibach to Eibach or what? Yes LT1 fronts are stiffer then LS1 fronts, but also are wound differently so you'd be about a wash on height if the plan was to change from GM to GM springs there.
From what you both are saying, it sounds like there's no benefit in swapping over to them.
10-22-2014, 07:58 PM
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Yeah off the top of my head I knew that LT1 springs were firmer but I didn't know by how much and I then looked it up and between the two the spring rate is so miniscule that it's not worth it. I probably should have looked that up before I posted that Guess I learned something here
Guess I learned something here
10-25-2014, 01:18 PM
#20
I would return the Moog standard vertical control arm bushing and instead get their new upgraded version:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/suspensio...l#post18375806
https://ls1tech.com/forums/suspensio...l#post18375806