Anyone else tired or their UMI roto-joints?
09-30-2015, 05:06 PM
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Anyone else tired or their UMI roto-joints? I have both UMI chromoly double adjustable lower controls arm and panhard bar. As you can imagine, they cost quite a bit of money, with both being chromoly and double adjustable.
Anyways, when I received the lower controls arms, I installed them. I didn't even need to take the car on a test drive to realize one out of the 4 roto joints were loose, I could rock the joint it with my hand.
I chalked it up to being a fluke, maybe a worker forgot to tighten one, oh well. However, the rear end was still noisy, after about 100 miles I checked them again, and another two of the 4 lower control arm roto joints needed tightening. I test them by grabbing them with my hand and rocking them with my body weight to see if there is any play. It's very apparent when there is play and when there isn't. Before you ask, I greased them all liberally before driving the car with the recommended grease by UMI. Also, all the set screws were all in place, so it's not like the adjuster backed out and they loosened up.
Anyways, I tightened those, and low and behold the rear is still noisy. Now I decided to check the the panhard bar, both ends needed tightening. It takes 3 adjustment points for one side of the panhard bar to not have any more play, and 1 adjustment on the other.
NOW, the rear end not only is noisy, but creaks because it seems the joints on the panhard bar may be too tight, wtf... If I loosen it back, it has vertical play in the joint. And before you ask, I'm positive its play in the joint itself and not where the arms bolts to the car and diff.
The trend has been, I hear noise, check the joints, find at least one needs tightening, test drive, and repeat. I don't think i've had it noise free yet, every time i fix the play on one it reveals the play on another.
Is it possible for the delrin to be worn out or something? Maybe they're ovaled out somehow, hence thy keep having issues with play? I have about 5k miles on the panhard bar, and maybe 5-800 miles on the lower control arms, and the amount of adjusting i've done in those miles is annoying now.
I knew what I was signing up for going with roto-joints, but this is a little ridiculous now.
Chris,
Anyways, when I received the lower controls arms, I installed them. I didn't even need to take the car on a test drive to realize one out of the 4 roto joints were loose, I could rock the joint it with my hand.
I chalked it up to being a fluke, maybe a worker forgot to tighten one, oh well. However, the rear end was still noisy, after about 100 miles I checked them again, and another two of the 4 lower control arm roto joints needed tightening. I test them by grabbing them with my hand and rocking them with my body weight to see if there is any play. It's very apparent when there is play and when there isn't. Before you ask, I greased them all liberally before driving the car with the recommended grease by UMI. Also, all the set screws were all in place, so it's not like the adjuster backed out and they loosened up.
Anyways, I tightened those, and low and behold the rear is still noisy. Now I decided to check the the panhard bar, both ends needed tightening. It takes 3 adjustment points for one side of the panhard bar to not have any more play, and 1 adjustment on the other.
NOW, the rear end not only is noisy, but creaks because it seems the joints on the panhard bar may be too tight, wtf... If I loosen it back, it has vertical play in the joint. And before you ask, I'm positive its play in the joint itself and not where the arms bolts to the car and diff.
The trend has been, I hear noise, check the joints, find at least one needs tightening, test drive, and repeat. I don't think i've had it noise free yet, every time i fix the play on one it reveals the play on another.
Is it possible for the delrin to be worn out or something? Maybe they're ovaled out somehow, hence thy keep having issues with play? I have about 5k miles on the panhard bar, and maybe 5-800 miles on the lower control arms, and the amount of adjusting i've done in those miles is annoying now.
I knew what I was signing up for going with roto-joints, but this is a little ridiculous now.
Chris,
10-01-2015, 08:27 PM
#2
I've had no issues with my roto joints. I haven't touched them since I bought them besides greasing them every so often. There over 5 yrs old. Any noise that I had in my suspension turned out to be my old crappy stock shocks which have since been replaced. My suspension is dead quiet.
10-02-2015, 08:03 AM
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I just must be extremely unlucky then, lucky you. As I said mine are quiet when I first grease them, once I put a few miles on them the nosiness comes right back.
My guess is that the grease acts like a cushion, and driving around pushes the grease out and it's noisy again.
I'm swapping my rear end today, maybe I'll take all the joints apart, reassemble them all dry to eliminate the possibility of the grease giving 'false' sense of tightness, and then regrease.
All I have to say is that it's a good thing I bought the tool to adjust these things.
One thing to note, since I probably have a mild case of OCD. UMI welded the nut crooked on one of the control arms, as I adjust the arms to lengthen or shorten it, you can see it wabble as it turns because of the thread not being perfectly perpendicular to the arm.
Maybe UMI has some advice for me?
Chris,
My guess is that the grease acts like a cushion, and driving around pushes the grease out and it's noisy again.
I'm swapping my rear end today, maybe I'll take all the joints apart, reassemble them all dry to eliminate the possibility of the grease giving 'false' sense of tightness, and then regrease.
All I have to say is that it's a good thing I bought the tool to adjust these things.
One thing to note, since I probably have a mild case of OCD. UMI welded the nut crooked on one of the control arms, as I adjust the arms to lengthen or shorten it, you can see it wabble as it turns because of the thread not being perfectly perpendicular to the arm.
Maybe UMI has some advice for me?
Chris,
10-02-2015, 03:48 PM
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What I have found with mine is that you MUST tighten the adjusting lock rings to a point where you think that they could not possibly let the center (where the mounting bolt goes through) move AT ALL, and THEN tighten the locking allen screw all the way into one of the four evenly spaced locking slots around the lock ring.
IF it is close to one of the slots, you are better off tightening the lock ring (rather than backing off and loosening it), even forcing it IF necessary to get to the next available slot to lock it down with the allen screw.
I have actually bent the pins on the lock ring adjusting tool doing this when I adjust them (about once a year for a 10K mile a year, year round daily driver), BUT, mine are DEAD silent now, and I have them on ALL ends of my rear LCAs and PHB.
I also grease them about 4 times a year with the suggested Super Lube synthetic grease.
IF it is close to one of the slots, you are better off tightening the lock ring (rather than backing off and loosening it), even forcing it IF necessary to get to the next available slot to lock it down with the allen screw.
I have actually bent the pins on the lock ring adjusting tool doing this when I adjust them (about once a year for a 10K mile a year, year round daily driver), BUT, mine are DEAD silent now, and I have them on ALL ends of my rear LCAs and PHB.
I also grease them about 4 times a year with the suggested Super Lube synthetic grease.
10-04-2015, 05:32 AM
#6
Good morning.
Roto-Joints are built 100% entirely in-house by both CNC's and humans. The main thing like mentioned above is to tighten the spanner tight. Even if your hand can't move it, the car can move it easily.
I'd recommend taking each arm out one at a time, pull the Roto's apart, check for dirt, damage and so forth. Grease sparingly with a good grease then reassemble. Tighten as tight as possible with our spanner, a universal spanner, a drift punch, etc. Use some restraint though i.e. Don't put a pipe on the end of the spanner.
You should be good to go.
If the Delrin became worn we sell the insert for $2.99/ea
-- Ramey
Roto-Joints are built 100% entirely in-house by both CNC's and humans. The main thing like mentioned above is to tighten the spanner tight. Even if your hand can't move it, the car can move it easily.
I'd recommend taking each arm out one at a time, pull the Roto's apart, check for dirt, damage and so forth. Grease sparingly with a good grease then reassemble. Tighten as tight as possible with our spanner, a universal spanner, a drift punch, etc. Use some restraint though i.e. Don't put a pipe on the end of the spanner.
You should be good to go.
If the Delrin became worn we sell the insert for $2.99/ea
-- Ramey
10-09-2015, 08:02 AM
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Some good advice in here. I've been using a drift punch and a mini hammer to tighten them on the car, I realized early on that pulling these things off every time to tighten these things was just not going to happen.
Now that I know they have to be that tight, I'll tighten them all again. What threw me off is NONE of my roto-joints came as tight as you both are describing, maybe that's why they were making noise since day one. They've all just "tight". These are supposed to come ready to go aren't they?
Chris,
Now that I know they have to be that tight, I'll tighten them all again. What threw me off is NONE of my roto-joints came as tight as you both are describing, maybe that's why they were making noise since day one. They've all just "tight". These are supposed to come ready to go aren't they?
Chris,
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10-09-2015, 08:14 AM
#8
Hi Chris.
We have hundreds per month go out of here and tend to be pretty a-ok. Our assemblers know to crank them tight, lube them properly and so on.
In the case of some that make a little bit of noise, the solution is to tighten them. When I get a thread like this I run back and talk to the assemblers to make sure they're doing their job correctly. From a mechanical standpoint, it's possible for units like this to seat one way on the bench and then settle in once cycled. Kind of like retorquing header bolts after the engine runs...
ramey
We have hundreds per month go out of here and tend to be pretty a-ok. Our assemblers know to crank them tight, lube them properly and so on.
In the case of some that make a little bit of noise, the solution is to tighten them. When I get a thread like this I run back and talk to the assemblers to make sure they're doing their job correctly. From a mechanical standpoint, it's possible for units like this to seat one way on the bench and then settle in once cycled. Kind of like retorquing header bolts after the engine runs...
ramey
05-20-2021, 07:32 PM
#9
Thank god I read this. ( even though the thread is 6 yea Old). My brand new UmI rotojoints are
rattling like mad. I was so pissed and was afraid to over tighten them. Now I’ll crank the suckers. Cheers.
rattling like mad. I was so pissed and was afraid to over tighten them. Now I’ll crank the suckers. Cheers.
Last edited by Barn Find CETA; 05-21-2021 at 09:29 PM.