Streetable Bushings / Control Arms
01-14-2016, 04:10 PM
#1
Teching In
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Asheville, NC
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Streetable Bushings / Control Arms Need some help choosing a setup for my 99 Camaro Z28.
I have been searching around on this subject for the past two days and could not get a clear answer. My current setup is Koni Sports and Strano Springs on the lower perch up front, HH mod in the back. Other than 18" wheels and some Nitto tires, the rest of the suspension is stock. The chassis has 150k and all ball joints/bushings are original (with the exception of some new Moog tie rod ends). I took the car on a HPDE track day at VIR in November and this setup felt good, but the worn bushings were noticeable when braking and mid-turn. The alignment shop where I got a custom alignment told me the front bushings would change alignment on hard braking, and I believe this is what I noticed.
I daily drive this car, so I am weary about running urethane bushings or aftermarket control arms on a daily driver, as I did a full urethane bushing kit to a car in the past and the ride was brutal. But, some front camber adjustment would be great to even out my camber on each side (cant quite even out with how low the lower Koni perch sits), and for the occasional track day the car may see. I already plan on doing some BMR or UMI sway bars and an adjustable panhard bar. So my questions are:
-Which do I need - adjustable upper or lower control arms - for the front to adjust camber, since both are offered?
-Should I use replacement stock bushings or aftermarket control arms for the front upper and lower?
-Should I use 1LE bushings in the rear control arms, or some sort of adjustable rear control arm?
-Which panhard bar is best for streetability while being adjustable?
-Do I need a torque arm for this level of lowering?
-Do I need rear LCA relocation brackets for this level of lowering?
-Are BMR/UMI sway bars better for handling than Strano since the rear bar is a larger diameter?
Any additional recommendations are also appreciated.
I have been searching around on this subject for the past two days and could not get a clear answer. My current setup is Koni Sports and Strano Springs on the lower perch up front, HH mod in the back. Other than 18" wheels and some Nitto tires, the rest of the suspension is stock. The chassis has 150k and all ball joints/bushings are original (with the exception of some new Moog tie rod ends). I took the car on a HPDE track day at VIR in November and this setup felt good, but the worn bushings were noticeable when braking and mid-turn. The alignment shop where I got a custom alignment told me the front bushings would change alignment on hard braking, and I believe this is what I noticed.
I daily drive this car, so I am weary about running urethane bushings or aftermarket control arms on a daily driver, as I did a full urethane bushing kit to a car in the past and the ride was brutal. But, some front camber adjustment would be great to even out my camber on each side (cant quite even out with how low the lower Koni perch sits), and for the occasional track day the car may see. I already plan on doing some BMR or UMI sway bars and an adjustable panhard bar. So my questions are:
-Which do I need - adjustable upper or lower control arms - for the front to adjust camber, since both are offered?
-Should I use replacement stock bushings or aftermarket control arms for the front upper and lower?
-Should I use 1LE bushings in the rear control arms, or some sort of adjustable rear control arm?
-Which panhard bar is best for streetability while being adjustable?
-Do I need a torque arm for this level of lowering?
-Do I need rear LCA relocation brackets for this level of lowering?
-Are BMR/UMI sway bars better for handling than Strano since the rear bar is a larger diameter?
Any additional recommendations are also appreciated.
01-14-2016, 06:21 PM
#2
Let me try and get these all in one shot. First, DO NOT use poly bushings in the front lower control arms, the caster bushing needs to be able to articulate. Poly does not allow this, and will fail over time, especially with track use.
- Adjustable arms are not necessary. While you have the lower control arms off, you can increase the size of the slots that the bolts run through on the k-member, allowing a greater alignment range. It's free and effective. On a side note, for a mostly daily driven car I wouldn't run more than -1.5 degrees camber. If you are close, don't worry about it. You may find you can even out the alignment after replacing the worn out bushings.
- Moog problem solver replacements are best for the lower arms in a street driven car that sees the occasional track day. You could run poly bushings in the upper arms for less deflection, and the ride probably won't be affected.
- 1LE bushings in the rear control arms are perfect for your needs, adjustable really isn't necessary in your application.
- I would use any double adjustable panhard with rod ends. All sponsors offer quality pieces. Rod ends won't make the ride worse when used in this location, if anything you might get a slight increase in NVH. Noise/harshness wise, I could never tell the difference between the stock piece and a quality rod-ended tubular panhard. I recommend rod ends in the panhard because they do not deflect under cornering loads.
-Torque arm and relocation brackets are not necessary. A stiffer, tubular torque arm can help combat brake hop on track if you are having that issue. If not, don't worry about it. LCA relocation brackets won't be of any benefit in your application.
-When it comes to bars, bigger isn't always better. Given the same size front bar, adding a larger rear bar will tend to make the car oversteer more. The strano bars are designed for handling balance in mind, and are proven.
Hopefully this helps, and can save you some money on mods. You can use the savings and invest in your brakes, which will be really beneficial out on the road course.
- Adjustable arms are not necessary. While you have the lower control arms off, you can increase the size of the slots that the bolts run through on the k-member, allowing a greater alignment range. It's free and effective. On a side note, for a mostly daily driven car I wouldn't run more than -1.5 degrees camber. If you are close, don't worry about it. You may find you can even out the alignment after replacing the worn out bushings.
- Moog problem solver replacements are best for the lower arms in a street driven car that sees the occasional track day. You could run poly bushings in the upper arms for less deflection, and the ride probably won't be affected.
- 1LE bushings in the rear control arms are perfect for your needs, adjustable really isn't necessary in your application.
- I would use any double adjustable panhard with rod ends. All sponsors offer quality pieces. Rod ends won't make the ride worse when used in this location, if anything you might get a slight increase in NVH. Noise/harshness wise, I could never tell the difference between the stock piece and a quality rod-ended tubular panhard. I recommend rod ends in the panhard because they do not deflect under cornering loads.
-Torque arm and relocation brackets are not necessary. A stiffer, tubular torque arm can help combat brake hop on track if you are having that issue. If not, don't worry about it. LCA relocation brackets won't be of any benefit in your application.
-When it comes to bars, bigger isn't always better. Given the same size front bar, adding a larger rear bar will tend to make the car oversteer more. The strano bars are designed for handling balance in mind, and are proven.
Hopefully this helps, and can save you some money on mods. You can use the savings and invest in your brakes, which will be really beneficial out on the road course.
01-14-2016, 08:11 PM
#3
Let me try and get these all in one shot. First, DO NOT use poly bushings in the front lower control arms, the caster bushing needs to be able to articulate. Poly does not allow this, and will fail over time, especially with track use.
- Adjustable arms are not necessary. While you have the lower control arms off, you can increase the size of the slots that the bolts run through on the k-member, allowing a greater alignment range. It's free and effective. On a side note, for a mostly daily driven car I wouldn't run more than -1.5 degrees camber. If you are close, don't worry about it. You may find you can even out the alignment after replacing the worn out bushings.
- Moog problem solver replacements are best for the lower arms in a street driven car that sees the occasional track day. You could run poly bushings in the upper arms for less deflection, and the ride probably won't be affected.
- 1LE bushings in the rear control arms are perfect for your needs, adjustable really isn't necessary in your application.
- I would use any double adjustable panhard with rod ends. All sponsors offer quality pieces. Rod ends won't make the ride worse when used in this location, if anything you might get a slight increase in NVH. Noise/harshness wise, I could never tell the difference between the stock piece and a quality rod-ended tubular panhard. I recommend rod ends in the panhard because they do not deflect under cornering loads.
-Torque arm and relocation brackets are not necessary. A stiffer, tubular torque arm can help combat brake hop on track if you are having that issue. If not, don't worry about it. LCA relocation brackets won't be of any benefit in your application.
-When it comes to bars, bigger isn't always better. Given the same size front bar, adding a larger rear bar will tend to make the car oversteer more. The strano bars are designed for handling balance in mind, and are proven.
Hopefully this helps, and can save you some money on mods. You can use the savings and invest in your brakes, which will be really beneficial out on the road course.
- Adjustable arms are not necessary. While you have the lower control arms off, you can increase the size of the slots that the bolts run through on the k-member, allowing a greater alignment range. It's free and effective. On a side note, for a mostly daily driven car I wouldn't run more than -1.5 degrees camber. If you are close, don't worry about it. You may find you can even out the alignment after replacing the worn out bushings.
- Moog problem solver replacements are best for the lower arms in a street driven car that sees the occasional track day. You could run poly bushings in the upper arms for less deflection, and the ride probably won't be affected.
- 1LE bushings in the rear control arms are perfect for your needs, adjustable really isn't necessary in your application.
- I would use any double adjustable panhard with rod ends. All sponsors offer quality pieces. Rod ends won't make the ride worse when used in this location, if anything you might get a slight increase in NVH. Noise/harshness wise, I could never tell the difference between the stock piece and a quality rod-ended tubular panhard. I recommend rod ends in the panhard because they do not deflect under cornering loads.
-Torque arm and relocation brackets are not necessary. A stiffer, tubular torque arm can help combat brake hop on track if you are having that issue. If not, don't worry about it. LCA relocation brackets won't be of any benefit in your application.
-When it comes to bars, bigger isn't always better. Given the same size front bar, adding a larger rear bar will tend to make the car oversteer more. The strano bars are designed for handling balance in mind, and are proven.
Hopefully this helps, and can save you some money on mods. You can use the savings and invest in your brakes, which will be really beneficial out on the road course.
01-15-2016, 07:11 AM
#4
Let me try and get these all in one shot. First, DO NOT use poly bushings in the front lower control arms, the caster bushing needs to be able to articulate. Poly does not allow this, and will fail over time, especially with track use.
- Adjustable arms are not necessary. While you have the lower control arms off, you can increase the size of the slots that the bolts run through on the k-member, allowing a greater alignment range. It's free and effective. On a side note, for a mostly daily driven car I wouldn't run more than -1.5 degrees camber. If you are close, don't worry about it. You may find you can even out the alignment after replacing the worn out bushings.
- Moog problem solver replacements are best for the lower arms in a street driven car that sees the occasional track day. You could run poly bushings in the upper arms for less deflection, and the ride probably won't be affected.
- 1LE bushings in the rear control arms are perfect for your needs, adjustable really isn't necessary in your application.
- I would use any double adjustable panhard with rod ends. All sponsors offer quality pieces. Rod ends won't make the ride worse when used in this location, if anything you might get a slight increase in NVH. Noise/harshness wise, I could never tell the difference between the stock piece and a quality rod-ended tubular panhard. I recommend rod ends in the panhard because they do not deflect under cornering loads.
-Torque arm and relocation brackets are not necessary. A stiffer, tubular torque arm can help combat brake hop on track if you are having that issue. If not, don't worry about it. LCA relocation brackets won't be of any benefit in your application.
-When it comes to bars, bigger isn't always better. Given the same size front bar, adding a larger rear bar will tend to make the car oversteer more. The strano bars are designed for handling balance in mind, and are proven.
Hopefully this helps, and can save you some money on mods. You can use the savings and invest in your brakes, which will be really beneficial out on the road course.
- Adjustable arms are not necessary. While you have the lower control arms off, you can increase the size of the slots that the bolts run through on the k-member, allowing a greater alignment range. It's free and effective. On a side note, for a mostly daily driven car I wouldn't run more than -1.5 degrees camber. If you are close, don't worry about it. You may find you can even out the alignment after replacing the worn out bushings.
- Moog problem solver replacements are best for the lower arms in a street driven car that sees the occasional track day. You could run poly bushings in the upper arms for less deflection, and the ride probably won't be affected.
- 1LE bushings in the rear control arms are perfect for your needs, adjustable really isn't necessary in your application.
- I would use any double adjustable panhard with rod ends. All sponsors offer quality pieces. Rod ends won't make the ride worse when used in this location, if anything you might get a slight increase in NVH. Noise/harshness wise, I could never tell the difference between the stock piece and a quality rod-ended tubular panhard. I recommend rod ends in the panhard because they do not deflect under cornering loads.
-Torque arm and relocation brackets are not necessary. A stiffer, tubular torque arm can help combat brake hop on track if you are having that issue. If not, don't worry about it. LCA relocation brackets won't be of any benefit in your application.
-When it comes to bars, bigger isn't always better. Given the same size front bar, adding a larger rear bar will tend to make the car oversteer more. The strano bars are designed for handling balance in mind, and are proven.
Hopefully this helps, and can save you some money on mods. You can use the savings and invest in your brakes, which will be really beneficial out on the road course.
01-15-2016, 12:08 PM
#7
TECH Enthusiast
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Ft. Wayne, IN
Posts: 549
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Couldn't agree with 79 TA more. I'm on the road to doing the exact same thing as he said if I haven't done it already. I have -1.0 degree camber and I run that year round. The max I could get is right around -1.8 degree with lowering springs but that's a little too much for a street application. Recently replaced my vertical bushing with that Moog problem solver one and my rear control arms with Moog 1LE style as well, very streetable and better than stock for competition as well.
No LCA brackets or aftermarket torque arm needed unless you find your rear hopping under hard braking, then you might want to look into a torque arm however a good suspension setup should cure most axle hop under hard braking.
Bars are the most noticeable improvement that made an impression on me when I did my suspension. Plus road manners didn't get much if any worse after installing them, Strano bars are undoubtedly one of the best balanced lightweight bars out there. After all this you tend to find yourself needed brakes because of how fast you tend to carry your speed around corners. I'm at that point right now, upgrading My LT brakes to LS ones today actually. Later down the road I'm going to put a good pad/rotor combo on to up the braking performance even more. I can't get my ABS to kick in anymore so that's how I figured that I need better brakes
No LCA brackets or aftermarket torque arm needed unless you find your rear hopping under hard braking, then you might want to look into a torque arm however a good suspension setup should cure most axle hop under hard braking.
Bars are the most noticeable improvement that made an impression on me when I did my suspension. Plus road manners didn't get much if any worse after installing them, Strano bars are undoubtedly one of the best balanced lightweight bars out there. After all this you tend to find yourself needed brakes because of how fast you tend to carry your speed around corners. I'm at that point right now, upgrading My LT brakes to LS ones today actually. Later down the road I'm going to put a good pad/rotor combo on to up the braking performance even more. I can't get my ABS to kick in anymore so that's how I figured that I need better brakes