Would it even help?
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From: paintsville ky
Would it even help? Hey guys, so my car has been down for 2 years now for a slew of new mods and I'm currently stuck at a fork in the road bc I don't want to waste money. The car is being built to go compete in the LSFEST grand champion event, that being said it needs to be beast at autocross. Ive installed a 6 point cage, the car already has SFC`s and tower brace, so my question is, with the SFC's, STB, and 6 point cage...would upgrading the front and rear sway bars even yield much difference? or would cash be better spent on new Springs or shocks?
Last edited by Project_Reaper; Dec 3, 2016 at 09:12 AM.
Thread Starter
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From: paintsville ky
weeeelllll...If my tax return comes back enough, I most likely will. However Im hoping someone has had a cage and then upgraded to bigger sway bars or vice versa, that can chime in on if they felt any noticeable difference in handling. I dont want to drop $300-$400 on sway bars if the cage and SFCs will be enough. Then that cash could be set aside for better heads.
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From: paintsville ky
Well I understand they have different jobs with similar results. The cage ties the body together for a stiffer feel and less body twist to help keep the suspension planted, where as the sway bars help to tie the left and right side of the suspension to the frame so when one side tries to dip it pulls the other side down with it, which yields more resistance to dipping to one side..which helps keeps the tires planted more evenly and prevent major bodyroll..Im simply asking with the cage will I see a NOTICEABLE difference in performance with the sway bars added..not will the cage replace upgraded sway bars. Im going to the LSfest this summer and I may not have the cash for the sway bars after the other things required to get the car back on the road so if there is not going to be a huge difference then ill save that upgrade for later.
Hey guys, so my car has been down for 2 years now for a slew of new mods and I'm currently stuck at a fork in the road bc I don't want to waste money. The car is being built to go compete in the LSFEST grand champion event, that being said it needs to be beast at autocross. I'm currently installing a 6 point cage, the car already has SFC`s and tower brace, so my question is, with the SFC's, STB, and 6 point cage...would upgrading the front and rear sway bars even yield much difference? or would cash be better spent on new Springs or shocks?
There will probably be no bigger upgrade than shocks and springs when you are building a track car. There's an old saying that goes "you get what you pay for" that applies here probably more so than any other component you'll install on your car.
If your building a track car like you stated the sway bar upgrade would be a necessity as would most of the factory suspension.
This may not need to be done all at one time. Seat time is probably the biggest factor in the whole equation.
I think there are a few guys here that will attest we have a proven high end shock and spring package for auto-x/road race applications that will also work flawless on the street as well.
http://umiperformance.com/catalog/in...Path=7_435_439
Craig
Last edited by UMI Sales; Dec 2, 2016 at 08:01 AM.
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You won't notice a change in handling with a roll cage. A roll cage does absolutely nothing to help the car from rolling over during cornering. A roll cage does nothing to address defencies in the stock suspension tuning.
They are two completely different things. Stiffening the chassis is never a bad thing, but if you don't change your suspension tuning you won't notice a difference in handling.
So yes, you will notice quite a dramatic difference in handling by changing sway bars. But as UMI said, they must be matched to your spring rates as a whole package.
They are two completely different things. Stiffening the chassis is never a bad thing, but if you don't change your suspension tuning you won't notice a difference in handling.
So yes, you will notice quite a dramatic difference in handling by changing sway bars. But as UMI said, they must be matched to your spring rates as a whole package.
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12 Second Club
Joined: May 2009
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From: paintsville ky
^oh Im not saying Ill never need them, I will eventually replace and upgrade every single aspect and part of the suspension, my goal is to have a street legal Le Mans car thats still streetable , simply wondering under this time crunch which would be the better place to spend the cash b4 this next summers event, whether it would be sway bars, springs or shocks..unfortunately I wont be able to do all 3 b4 this race..just hoping to get the best of my moneys worth that I can for this trip.
You won't notice a change in handling with a roll cage. A roll cage does absolutely nothing to help the car from rolling over during cornering. A roll cage does nothing to address defencies in the stock suspension tuning.
They are two completely different things. Stiffening the chassis is never a bad thing, but if you don't change your suspension tuning you won't notice a difference in handling.
So yes, you will notice quite a dramatic difference in handling by changing sway bars. But as UMI said, they must be matched to your spring rates as a whole package.
They are two completely different things. Stiffening the chassis is never a bad thing, but if you don't change your suspension tuning you won't notice a difference in handling.
So yes, you will notice quite a dramatic difference in handling by changing sway bars. But as UMI said, they must be matched to your spring rates as a whole package.
^oh Im not saying Ill never need them, I will eventually replace and upgrade every single aspect and part of the suspension, my goal is to have a street legal Le Mans car thats still streetable , simply wondering under this time crunch which would be the better place to spend the cash b4 this next summers event, whether it would be sway bars, springs or shocks..unfortunately I wont be able to do all 3 b4 this race..just hoping to get the best of my moneys worth that I can for this trip.
Personally I wouldn't have bothered with a cage in a stock suspension car, but to each their own.
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From: paintsville ky
So just to make sure everyone is at least relatively on the same opinion, I should try for a springs and shocks setup first to get me through this event and then sway bars later? Well I do drag racing as well as some fairly fast top speed runs, my last TS run was 180mph+ so I prefer the safety of cage, plus it helped my 60' pretty decent. I do everything in this car so its being built slowly with a well rounded multi purpose design in mind. Btw thank you too everyone who responded, I just wanted to make sure that I was spending what little bit of cash I have in the correct and most effective spots first. So just to make sure everyone is at least relatively on the same opinion, I should try for a springs and shocks setup first to get me through this event and then sway bars later?
So just to make sure everyone is at least relatively on the same opinion, I should try for a springs and shocks setup first to get me through this event and then sway bars later? Thread Starter
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From: paintsville ky
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From: St.Charles MO
^oh Im not saying Ill never need them, I will eventually replace and upgrade every single aspect and part of the suspension, my goal is to have a street legal Le Mans car thats still streetable , simply wondering under this time crunch which would be the better place to spend the cash b4 this next summers event, whether it would be sway bars, springs or shocks..unfortunately I wont be able to do all 3 b4 this race..just hoping to get the best of my moneys worth that I can for this trip.
..well I have to respectfully disagree slightly with that, I already have the cage in, and I did notice an upgraded feel in the launch on the drag track as well as less chassis flex in the curves.
What you are feeling is not flex, its the overly soft and very very poorly damped stock suspension moving all around, and the way the solid axle moves in comparison to the independent front suspension. Rear feels different and disconnected to the front right? Yea thats the shocks. Floatyness, unstable and unpredictable when pushing hard? You guessed it, shocks. Not all that confidence inspiring? Shocks...
If you really want a great handling machine forget about power and invest in suspension first.
While we are on the topic of auto-x or road racing, what brakes do you have? Hopefully not some drilled rotors and autozone ceramic pads...
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From: paintsville ky
JD_AMG....let me say this as respectfully as possible. Please stop..First- I never said I was running factory tires, you assumed this, I actually run 295 Pirrelli P-Zeros, that's why I said my new set of tires is going to be $1,400, Second- yes SFC'S DO help with handling, I shaved 2 seconds off my hourglass solo run for the SCCA with just that one mod, Third- why...why would you assume I'm running some cheap Autozone drilled rotors?..no never mind, please don't answer that.
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From: paintsville ky
a very big thank you too all who have replied, after speaking to a few of you in PM and a BMW rep I'll be getting a shocks and springs combo as it seems they will do me best for this up coming event, of course I'll be grabbing a set of sway bars next year. If anyone wants to see the progress of the build or video of the event just let me know. So far it's slowly turning into a very nice well rounded racer. Funds are always the limiting factor of course.
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From: St.Charles MO
How is it that there are national title winning SCCA 4th gens running no chassis stiffening mods at all? If it gave that much of a difference all the quickest cars would be running SFCs.
Second- yes SFC'S DO help with handling, I shaved 2 seconds off my hourglass solo run for the SCCA with just that one mod,
When Sam strano sold his car to the new owner, the new owner ran it for a while and was doing great. He later added SFCs and his times SLOWED down, he then removed them and he was going quicker again. SFCs add weight, and do little to nothing for handling. I have 3pt welded in SFCs and they did nothing for me, n.o.t.h.i.n.g. however I have fixed the *real* problem: the factory suspension (mostly the shocks).
Third- why...why would you assume I'm running some cheap Autozone drilled rotors?..no never mind, please don't answer that.