Chris Paveglio

iTrader: (2)

I'm glad you've decided to keep the car, and get the Koni's and parts.

As far as driving style, maybe you're really good, maybe not. But remember that the Firebird will handle differently than the other cars you are trying to catch or the others you've owned. It simply won't track through a corner the same. Even with all the best suspension parts, it's still a different platform, so stop trying to make 100% direct comparisons. Maybe you can't dive into the corner quite as hard, yeah maybe you have to lift or tap the brakes a bit, to set the car and take your line. But then once at the apex, the Firebird is going to be able to put down the power and catch up with your friends.

I'll tell you a quick story: I had the same issue. My friend had a 2nd gen MR2. I got a 2001 WS6 that was all stock. We took a drive on some twisty roads up mountains, and I couldn't keep up around corners or hairpins (but could always catch up on the straights and uphill too). That winter I put on only Koni shocks and bigger front bar. Then in the spring we went for another drive on some of the same roads. This time I was right on his *** through every corner. The shocks and bar helped that much. Now (after another 15 years) I finally have the Strano springs and a watts link and some other bits, and I've been fastest car and fastest PAX at autocross this year. Faster than Corvettes and very light kit cars. The platform can be super fast with the right parts and good driving skill.

So,
Stop typing on this thread. Buy those parts and put them on, and get familiar with your newly upgraded car!

JD_AMG

FWIW the strano rear springs are technically linear. The working rate is 150lbs/in, the "progressive" coils you see are dead coils when the car is on the ground and they are only there for when the car is on a lift and the rear suspension is at full droop so that the spring stay seated properly.
The UMI springs are 50lb/in more rate front and rear, that is a little rear biased IMO but im sure they work fine. I think Id rather have something like 650 or 750lb/in front to match 200lb/in rear.

Boxxx

Thanks for your input and insight. I'm just used to imports so it's hard not to draw a direct comparison, in many ways it reminds me of the Celica I had. The steering is very similar in weight and feel, and the wheelbase is nearly identical between them. Anyhow I suppose a call to Mr. Strano is in order soon.

Boxxx

Ahh ok that's good to know, I just remembered seeing the two different rates on the rear for the Strano springs along with looking at them. Which I was leaning towards the Strano springs anyway, but I've just never been a fan of progressive springs and it appeared that they were. So thanks for clearing that up.

stp001

On bumpy roads, along with the Koni yellows you chose, a slightly softer set of springs and a slightly stiffer set of sway bars would be my choice. My next purchase would be a set of NRG fixed back seats. A good seat makes all the difference. Then it's bushing upgrade/replacement time. If you have more time than money, just replace bushings with poly. If you have a little more money than time, buy the complete arm/bar. Then it's time for headers, bullets and dumps. Doesn't add a bunch of speed, but if you have a V8, the world deserves to know it!

Boxxx

I don't think I could do a fixed back seat due to my fibromyalgia, it helps to be able to change the recline and depending on how I'm hurting more or less recline can help. The stock cloth seats are surprisingly ok, and I say surprisingly because the seats in my father's Camaro sucked royally in comparison(SN95 Mustang has to have the worst seats ever though). Sure there are a lot better seats out there, but they are fairly comfortable with decent support and I think for the time period they're above average. I actually have a pair of Celica seats I've thought about fabricating into place since those are some of the best o.e. seats I've ever been in. I have access to a shop so I'll just replace the bushings and save some money, I need to research into it since I remember some people saying certain bushings you were better off using rubber instead of poly. I already replaced the factory muffler with a single in/out straight through, get nice tone and volume from it. I might do headers if there any that bolt into the factory exhaust, I refuse to remove the cats since raw exhaust makes me sick, but adding power is the least of my concerns. Heck I bought a LT-1 car because I liked how they looked considerably more, shows how much I care about power. To me the '98-02 are too ostentatious for my liking, the '93-97 are nice and sleek and kind of have a sporty import look to them. The Camaro is more of a wash for me, though I think I might like the '98-02 more on them.

eb110americana

iTrader: (4)

A few things: So far, no one has correctly described "a momentum car". This is pretty much the opposite of an F-body. An underpowered car where you attempt to carry as much speed as possible through corners by staying off the brakes as much as you can. Yes, for the most part this is what you do with any car around a track, but the focus is on optimizing exit-speed at the exclusion of all else since the car cannot accelerate back out as much as the chassis can tolerate.

I understand that you don't have a lot of money to spend on this, so you will have to live with your decision, but I think you are looking at it in the wrong way. Given enough time and effort, (and yes, money) you can pretty much get any car to do what you want. You can make an F-body handle. You can make a Miata a drag-strip hero. Don't focus on getting the car that can do everything. That's what everyone wants (or thinks they want anyway). Don't even think about what you do not want (bad handling, styling, etc.)

These days, new cars are getting so good that they are boring to drive. All of the thrill and adventure has been engineered out of them. While that might be ideal for minivans and crossovers, it takes some of the fun out of driving. And more than that, it makes the cars and the experience less special as well. Is adding enough sound deadening to make casual conversation at 85 mph worth it if you feel like you're going 45 mph on the freeway? Is lopping a half-second off your 0-60 with a dual-clutch transmission as satisfying as a perfectly timed heel-toe downshift?

It's these quirks that ultimately make cars memorable. So pick the car with the quirks that suit you best. To that point, I have driven C7 Stingrays and late model Camaros, and while they may be faster around a track than my Trans Am, and certainly are a lot smoother and quieter down the road, I came away from each satisfied that mine was offering me the most entertainment for my money. I've got basically the full Strano setup with springs, bars, Koni yellows, rubber 1LE-style MOOG bushings, adjustable panhard bar, and 275/30R19 wheels. And that was before I began the engine swap, of which I am now in the middle.

Short wheelbase, high-horsepower cars definitely require a certain style of driving that demands respect. A style very unlike a FWD car, especially a longer wheelbase one, that will defer to understeer--but will never rotate as readily as an F-body. Porsche 911s (especially older ones) are bit like this as well, having a short wheelbase and a rear that will step out and swap ends if you are indecisive with the throttle. But that flaw is also what has made them so endearing for all of these years. It's why even the old ones still change hands for serious money.

You can be as indecisive as you want, but in the end, no one can decide which experience is right for you--except for you. The best I advice I can give you is pick the adventure you'll want to remember.

Boxxx

I drive the Firebird just like I did the Miata and Celica, so I barely use the brakes and push it into and through corners as hard as I can to maintain speed and not lose it. I can't help it, after years of driving that way I'm just stuck in momentum driver mode I guess.

Part of my problem is I like all kinds of cars, there's at least one car from every brand I'd own so it's always running through my head on what it'd be like to own various cars. I don't know the meaning of brand loyalty, or even loyalty to one localization of manufacturers. I don't care who made it or where it's from so long as it's fun to drive.

stp001

Part of my problem is I like all kinds of cars, there's at least one car from every brand I'd own so it's always running through my head on what it'd be like to own various cars. [/QUOTE]

That statement holds true for most every car guy I know! Well......except for maybe those Mopar guys, they are a little different!

Boxxx

I know a lot of people that'll only do imports or only do domestics, and then within that you'll have some that'll only do one brand. I mean I guess that makes life a lot easier since you whittle down your options significantly by doing that, but you miss out on a lot of great cars that way. If I had the money and space I'd be like Jay Leno and have all kinds of cars. Which that's another thing I've thought about, hold onto the Firebird and instead of modding it get a Miata or MR2 on the side then I can have the best of both worlds as it were.

eb110americana

iTrader: (4)

I should add that, with the Strano setup I listed in my post above, the lateral grip far exceeds the capabilities of the stock seats. I kept them for far too long and probably exacerbated the loose play in the steering tilt mechanism from hanging off the wheel so often. I was starting to feel like the Stig flying out of his seat in that one Top Gear episode where he was lapping farm tractors.

So the stock seats might be comfortable for your fibromyalgia, but you should consider finding something you like that has better side bolstering. I went with Cypher, which is a little lacking in lumbar support and adjustability, but I have made 8 hour drives in the car without issue even with my bad lower back.

Boxxx

Thanks will have to check out what they have. I think the only reason the stock seats are doing as well as they are in terms of holding me in place is because they're that heavily textured cloth so you don't slide around really, I could see where the vinyl/leather seats could definitely pose a problem. I was really happy to get cloth, I'm weird like that but I like LT-1 cars more and hardtops so that shouldn't surprise anyone. That's one thing I really like about the Firebird is it actually rides fairly nice and is comfortable, so I think that was also part of my apprehension in modding it since the last thing I want to do is make it where it rides rough because then I'd have to undo it.

eb110americana

iTrader: (4)

Yeah, the mouse-fur seats do hold you in place better than the might-as-well-be-vinyl leather ones. Mine did not have the optional air bladder side bolsters, but even those are a one-size-fits-all compromise.

My car rides pretty rough when driven slowly and/or on rough roads. It also has big 19" wheels with summer tires though. If you want to minimize that, probably don't lower your car. I don't know what is out there for performance springs with stock height, but see if a nice set of Konis and anti-roll bars does it for you. You'll retain more suspension travel and softer springs, which may be enough. If you feel like you can handle more abuse, you can always add the springs after.

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

This is where the internet gets folks in trouble.

And a reminder that I work very closely with the UMI guys, and sell their entire line too.

My springs are not actively progressive at either end. Mine, and in fact all rears for this car have to have a tender rate so that the spring is long enough to not come loose at droop and fall out. A BIG difference with mine is I specifically designed the spring so that the tender rate is not ever in play, it's gone, those coils are dead with the weight of the car simply sitting on them and you are into the main rate at rest.

The UMI springs, they are 600/200. Mine are 550/150. Mine are less low, and the lower you go the more rate you need to support the car in a lesser amount of travel. If you look at my car or even their car, you will see from a performance side, we don't lower them all that much. Bottom line their springs aren't bad, and if you are after that look I'd be happy to sell them to you, but they are lower than is ideal IMO. Then the rates themselves, you cannot directly compare coil over rates, particularly in the rear, with a stock location spring, the motion ratios differ because the spring location differs.

Allow me to be blunt here. This is a game that is harder than just tossing parts at a car. Many folks do that and get a result that is "better" than stock, but not nearly as good as it could be. Often those folks have no other basis for comparison other than stock. I do, lots of of it. And frankly I've been doing this longer, with this car, than some companies have been around.

Boxxx

That was part of why I went with 17's since I wanted to keep as much sidewall as possible, but get into good performance tires. The BFG Sport COMP-2 tires ride fairly well too, just a little noisy at 30-45 mph or so but even that is barely noticeable. Though as if everything just pertaining to the cars themselves wasn't enough I have to take a lot of things into consideration because of my fibro. In all honesty I should be in some kind of Lexus or other luxury car with an automatic, but driving is one of the few things I can still do that I enjoy and driving a manual in particular. Sure I pay for it at times and more so than I would in something more befitting my condition, but at the same time as the Firebird is now is actually pretty good so I don't want to ruin that. I actually thought about doing shocks first and then take it from there.

I'm not really concerned with drop height or how it looks, and like you said going too low without enough spring rate isn't good. How it handles and how it rides is more important to me, with looks being a nice extra. I'm very much a function over form type for the most part. Which I was leaning towards your springs anyway but then I had remembered erroneously about the two rates on the rear, but JD_AMG sorted that out for me.

The last thing I want to do is toss parts at the car, even if I had the money to spare I wouldn't want to but given money is a lot tighter than I'd care for it to be it's more crucial that I get it right the first time around. Which is kind of what started all this to begin with, I know what to do with cars like the Miata and MR2 and even though it's kind of the same process for every car this is somewhat fairly new to me being my first solid axle and domestic. I know what it takes to get a desired result with them, whereas here it's a little unknown to me.

Swoop Dogg

iTrader: (2)

Did I miss it? did you list a budget?

Boxxx

I decided on keeping the car and then modding it as I can. I'm thinking will start with shocks and bushings since those are kind of the groundwork for everything else and they can be done independently of everything else which is more copacetic for my sadly limited budget. Hopefully towards the end of the year after getting some medical nonsense sorted out I'll be able to put more money towards the car instead of myself.

biketopia

iTrader: (5)

just fyi, since the front's are essentially a coil over, it's a pretty decent amount of work to put front shocks on the car if you have any inclination of changing springs then you're re-doing, or paying to re-do all that labor again.

Boxxx

Which is why I was wanting to do shocks and springs at the same time. Though every car prior was either a spring over shock setup all around or a MacPherson strut all around, so it's something I'm used to in that regard. I'll be doing everything myself with the help of my brother, so it's not as bad as if I were taking it somewhere to be done. Which I started looking around to see where to do poly bushes and where to do rubber bushes since there are some places where rubber works better.

Ok from what I found after reading through a few posts on here:
Rear LCA bushings-1LE or Moog rubber
Front UCA bushings-poly
Front LCA bushings-poly, but vertical mounted bushing Moog Problem Solver
Sway bar bushings-poly

I think that covers it all, that and for ball joints and tie rods ends also do Moog Problem Solver.

dojob

Instead of those poly bushings just do the Moog bushings on them, they're firmer than OEM bushings and won't make the noise of the poly. Essentially poly is more hassle than it's ever worth