Took a Ferrari 458 around a track, here's how it compares to my track prepped F-Body
07-26-2017, 06:19 PM
#1
Took a Ferrari 458 around a track, here's how it compares to my track prepped F-Body Ever since I've started tracking my F-Body I've always wondered how different something like a Ferrari or Porsche would feel going ***** out around a track. Well this past month I've had the opportunity to do just that! I "rented" a Ferrari 458 along with 5 laps of a private racetrack. There was an instructor with me and even though 5 laps is nowhere near enough to learn a completely new track, I did push it pretty hard (just a couple seconds shy of the "student" lap record with that car).
I was surprised with a few things:
- Power. Or rather lack of it. I'm not going to call it slow by any means but in a straight line I was expecting a lot more after hearing everyone giving this car such high praise. Also power delivery wasn't linear at all (think on/off switch), you couldn't really modulate the throttle coming out of a corner. Basically get the car sorted as soon as you kiss the apex then mash the throttle.
- Handling. Car is perfectly balanced. Brakes bite hard and don't fade. Not much more to say, Ferrari set the bar with the 458. I'm probably pulling similar G's to my bird but the Ferrari feels a lot more controlled.
- Steering. This is what I loved the most. The car is sooooo precise. You're basically thinking where you want to place the car and the car just goes. This is I think due to the quick steering rack of the 458 (2 turns lock-to-lock)
So this leads me to a question, is there an alternative quicker steering rack for our cars? There's not much out there about this topic. This would be very helpful on tight, technical courses as too many times I'm getting crossed up trying to get enough angle to the tires.
Obligatory video:
I was surprised with a few things:
- Power. Or rather lack of it. I'm not going to call it slow by any means but in a straight line I was expecting a lot more after hearing everyone giving this car such high praise. Also power delivery wasn't linear at all (think on/off switch), you couldn't really modulate the throttle coming out of a corner. Basically get the car sorted as soon as you kiss the apex then mash the throttle.
- Handling. Car is perfectly balanced. Brakes bite hard and don't fade. Not much more to say, Ferrari set the bar with the 458. I'm probably pulling similar G's to my bird but the Ferrari feels a lot more controlled.
- Steering. This is what I loved the most. The car is sooooo precise. You're basically thinking where you want to place the car and the car just goes. This is I think due to the quick steering rack of the 458 (2 turns lock-to-lock)
So this leads me to a question, is there an alternative quicker steering rack for our cars? There's not much out there about this topic. This would be very helpful on tight, technical courses as too many times I'm getting crossed up trying to get enough angle to the tires.
Obligatory video:
07-27-2017, 12:53 AM
#4
I had often wondered about a faster steering ratio, but I have no idea if there are any other racks from other models that work in our cars. When I had mine rebuilt by TurnOne, I inquired about it. They said around $5,000 to start development on one, so I stuck with stock and am going to throw on a smaller fat steering wheel. However, if there are others who are interested in such a thing, a group-buy could make that $5K more reasonable. Something like 10 people at $500/ea., or 20 at $250/ea.
07-27-2017, 01:59 PM
#7
TECH Veteran
iTrader: (14)
oh man I bet that was amazing to experience. Interesting how you described the power though. Like you I would have assumed it to be instant, but it seems more like it relies on fast rev and RPM sweep for power. Im curious what rpms you were turning during those unwind runs.
I tend to agree with the above about the giving an fbody that steering feeling. The aerodynamics of that car and the weight of it probably play a large factor. Id also be curious to know the overall dimensions of that car particularly width and height..
I tend to agree with the above about the giving an fbody that steering feeling. The aerodynamics of that car and the weight of it probably play a large factor. Id also be curious to know the overall dimensions of that car particularly width and height..
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07-27-2017, 02:23 PM
#8
oh man I bet that was amazing to experience. Interesting how you described the power though. Like you I would have assumed it to be instant, but it seems more like it relies on fast rev and RPM sweep for power. Im curious what rpms you were turning during those unwind runs.
I tend to agree with the above about the giving an fbody that steering feeling. The aerodynamics of that car and the weight of it probably play a large factor. Id also be curious to know the overall dimensions of that car particularly width and height..
I tend to agree with the above about the giving an fbody that steering feeling. The aerodynamics of that car and the weight of it probably play a large factor. Id also be curious to know the overall dimensions of that car particularly width and height..
The difference in feeling also probably has to do with the fact that I'm running 315's out front on my bird as opposed to the tiny little 235's on the 458. Also the obvious FR vs MR engine layout so the Ferrari changes direction in an instant and has amazing turn-in.
07-27-2017, 02:32 PM
#9
Another point to the mid-engine setup is that without much weight on the nose, less power steering assist is required, so more steering feel as well. It is much the same with 911s.
Even so, a friend with an insane tracked-out Fiero said of all the mods, the best was the faster steering rack he swapped in. He said it totally changed the character of the car. I believe they are manual racks in that case.
07-27-2017, 02:39 PM
#10
TECH Veteran
iTrader: (14)
^interesting I felt like mine was on rails when I went from the stock wheels to a 275 tire. Now im on a 295 and still feel its more responsive. Is it just harder to handle the that wide of a tire in the turn? I ask because I dont really abuse mine that way so my perspective is different Id assume.
Yeah you dont really want to down shift to maintain 4k rpm with a fbody, with my setup the sweet spot is keep it at that 2400 range and ease into it. I make about 400tq at 3k so its the throttle response in that range is pretty ridiculous when she is running right.
I woudnt have expected that car to have 235 up front. thats kind of surprising.
Yeah you dont really want to down shift to maintain 4k rpm with a fbody, with my setup the sweet spot is keep it at that 2400 range and ease into it. I make about 400tq at 3k so its the throttle response in that range is pretty ridiculous when she is running right.
I woudnt have expected that car to have 235 up front. thats kind of surprising.
07-27-2017, 03:18 PM
#11
Yes, tire width makes a big difference. When I went from 245 tires to 275 on my TA, steering feel definitely was reduced, even if grip increased.
Another point to the mid-engine setup is that without much weight on the nose, less power steering assist is required, so more steering feel as well. It is much the same with 911s.
Even so, a friend with an insane tracked-out Fiero said of all the mods, the best was the faster steering rack he swapped in. He said it totally changed the character of the car. I believe they are manual racks in that case.
Another point to the mid-engine setup is that without much weight on the nose, less power steering assist is required, so more steering feel as well. It is much the same with 911s.
Even so, a friend with an insane tracked-out Fiero said of all the mods, the best was the faster steering rack he swapped in. He said it totally changed the character of the car. I believe they are manual racks in that case.
^interesting I felt like mine was on rails when I went from the stock wheels to a 275 tire. Now im on a 295 and still feel its more responsive. Is it just harder to handle the that wide of a tire in the turn? I ask because I dont really abuse mine that way so my perspective is different Id assume.
Yeah you dont really want to down shift to maintain 4k rpm with a fbody, with my setup the sweet spot is keep it at that 2400 range and ease into it. I make about 400tq at 3k so its the throttle response in that range is pretty ridiculous when she is running right.
I woudnt have expected that car to have 235 up front. thats kind of surprising.
Yeah you dont really want to down shift to maintain 4k rpm with a fbody, with my setup the sweet spot is keep it at that 2400 range and ease into it. I make about 400tq at 3k so its the throttle response in that range is pretty ridiculous when she is running right.
I woudnt have expected that car to have 235 up front. thats kind of surprising.
07-27-2017, 07:26 PM
#13
A stiffer sidewall will aid feedback and responsiveness, but steering feel and grip are very different things. A Miata has lots of steering feel, but not much grip in stock form. A narrower tire has a more concentrated contact patch, so it will transmit more specific information through the wheel. It's like why you can feel more texture of the paper when writing with a ball point pen versus a marker. AWD cars have some of the most grip of all, but the additional driveline often means rather numb steering.
07-27-2017, 08:43 PM
#14
TECH Veteran
iTrader: (14)
Not to detract from.the conversation, but felt like the car would go where I wanted it to quicker with wider tire, where I felt more slop with the oe wheels. But I'm not talking road course feel
08-04-2017, 11:16 AM
#15
Sweet! Another F-body brethern getting to flog a Ferrari!
If you were feeling the 458 wasn't tracking out as hard as it should have been, or the power having an on/off type deal, you were not in the right gear nor keeping it in the powerband. They do have plenty of power to yank you right on through & out! Those have the 7 speeds and will take a bit of time getting used to proper gear selection. Also, what did you have the TC & SC set to? I typically run with them off as the 'nanny' features are pretty effective on overriding your throttle inputs if needed.
Doing those arrive & drives, you never get acclimated anywhere near enough to the track and car to really run it to their potential. Those instructors want to go home in 1 piece, so they keep a good 'buffer' relative to its max performance ability. I do that with my students too initially until things get to set in.
I've tracked several 458s and 430 Scuderias at Road America- they belonged to my students as I was their instructor and got to push them hard on the track, which I know as well as my own driveway.
Yep, their precision is awesome and the Fbody needs a lot of work to get anywhere near that ballpark. The Scud is much more at home on the track vs the 458 being quicker that the 458 actually while having a visceral feel to it.
The paddles on the DCT- that's taking driving to a different level all together.
Those damned cars is exactly why I'm doing my current build the way I'm doing it lol-
LSA supercharged L92, paddleshift 6L80E, faster steering rack & more!
Here's a vid of me with a student's 430 Scuderia with his personal assistant 'trying' to get the lap on her iphone.
The Scuderia is essentially a street legal track version of the F430 with stripped interior, carbon fiber replacing things for further weight reduction and the CC brakes
If you were feeling the 458 wasn't tracking out as hard as it should have been, or the power having an on/off type deal, you were not in the right gear nor keeping it in the powerband. They do have plenty of power to yank you right on through & out! Those have the 7 speeds and will take a bit of time getting used to proper gear selection. Also, what did you have the TC & SC set to? I typically run with them off as the 'nanny' features are pretty effective on overriding your throttle inputs if needed.
Doing those arrive & drives, you never get acclimated anywhere near enough to the track and car to really run it to their potential. Those instructors want to go home in 1 piece, so they keep a good 'buffer' relative to its max performance ability. I do that with my students too initially until things get to set in.
I've tracked several 458s and 430 Scuderias at Road America- they belonged to my students as I was their instructor and got to push them hard on the track, which I know as well as my own driveway.
Yep, their precision is awesome and the Fbody needs a lot of work to get anywhere near that ballpark. The Scud is much more at home on the track vs the 458 being quicker that the 458 actually while having a visceral feel to it.
The paddles on the DCT- that's taking driving to a different level all together.
Those damned cars is exactly why I'm doing my current build the way I'm doing it lol-
LSA supercharged L92, paddleshift 6L80E, faster steering rack & more!
Here's a vid of me with a student's 430 Scuderia with his personal assistant 'trying' to get the lap on her iphone.
The Scuderia is essentially a street legal track version of the F430 with stripped interior, carbon fiber replacing things for further weight reduction and the CC brakes
Last edited by Heat Seeker WS6; 08-04-2017 at 12:08 PM.
08-10-2017, 07:37 PM
#17
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What about a steering quickener? That would at least reduce the lock to lock...not sure how it would effect the steering feel.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/hre-5225/overview/
Nick
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/hre-5225/overview/
Nick
04-19-2019, 09:55 AM
#18
Ever since I've started tracking my F-Body I've always wondered how different something like a Ferrari or Porsche would feel going ***** out around a track. Well this past month I've had the opportunity to do just that! I "rented" a Ferrari 458 along with 5 laps of a private racetrack. There was an instructor with me and even though 5 laps is nowhere near enough to learn a completely new track, I did push it pretty hard (just a couple seconds shy of the "student" lap record with that car).
I was surprised with a few things:
- Power. Or rather lack of it. I'm not going to call it slow by any means but in a straight line I was expecting a lot more after hearing everyone giving this car such high praise. Also power delivery wasn't linear at all (think on/off switch), you couldn't really modulate the throttle coming out of a corner. Basically get the car sorted as soon as you kiss the apex then mash the throttle.
- Handling. Car is perfectly balanced. Brakes bite hard and don't fade. Not much more to say, Ferrari set the bar with the 458. I'm probably pulling similar G's to my bird but the Ferrari feels a lot more controlled.
- Steering. This is what I loved the most. The car is sooooo precise. You're basically thinking where you want to place the car and the car just goes. This is I think due to the quick steering rack of the 458 (2 turns lock-to-lock)
So this leads me to a question, is there an alternative quicker steering rack for our cars? There's not much out there about this topic. This would be very helpful on tight, technical courses as too many times I'm getting crossed up trying to get enough angle to the tires.
Obligatory video:
https://youtu.be/ilNNcU_z-t0
I was surprised with a few things:
- Power. Or rather lack of it. I'm not going to call it slow by any means but in a straight line I was expecting a lot more after hearing everyone giving this car such high praise. Also power delivery wasn't linear at all (think on/off switch), you couldn't really modulate the throttle coming out of a corner. Basically get the car sorted as soon as you kiss the apex then mash the throttle.
- Handling. Car is perfectly balanced. Brakes bite hard and don't fade. Not much more to say, Ferrari set the bar with the 458. I'm probably pulling similar G's to my bird but the Ferrari feels a lot more controlled.
- Steering. This is what I loved the most. The car is sooooo precise. You're basically thinking where you want to place the car and the car just goes. This is I think due to the quick steering rack of the 458 (2 turns lock-to-lock)
So this leads me to a question, is there an alternative quicker steering rack for our cars? There's not much out there about this topic. This would be very helpful on tight, technical courses as too many times I'm getting crossed up trying to get enough angle to the tires.
Obligatory video:
https://youtu.be/ilNNcU_z-t0
That would have been an awesome experience, however what is it with all that understeer and low speeds??
My 4 door sedan does not understeer at those speeds.
I just find it weird
