Originally Posted by dojob

I’ve said it before Sam, I respect your contribution to the industry and your accomplishments doing so. You are indeed a wealth of knowledgeable and experienced on the products and how they perform. That said, I do not appreciate the half-truths and omitting of information when conversing with folks to manipulate their decision so they buy products from you. It’s a constant sales push on people to buy products from you. You go out of your way to sway their decision to buy from you or to divert the conversation in your shop’s direction. Taking advantage of uneducated consumers is what you’re doing.

Examples of this are simple: You’ll just jump in on a conversation and state your offerings of similar products. Full disclosure of products you sell are not divulged even when asked unless money is exchanged 1st…simple parts list or parts numbers on various items, Forgestar wheel offsets, your brake kit specs. Calling your shop, placing the order and shipping cost can’t/won’t be told to you, it needs to be added on later once order processes. You’ve lied about things when the truth will completely do, “FWIW, I have never laid eyes on even a picture of the other adapters” (referring to post #49 https://ls1tech.com/forums/suspensio...t-shirt-3.html).

Majority of the vendors give full insight and aid others in product decision making process without playing victim or guilting them for the sale. They answer questions (not saying they’re not biased to their offerings), the customer is made aware of the parts the components they are buying before money exchanges hands. The consumer makes their decision with all the information they wanted/needed.

It’s 2018. Employers and employees alike are entitled to nothing unless it’s earned and worked for. Earning people’s business is interpreted differently from one company to the next. If you’re doing the best you can do, great. Nothing to be upset about, you’ve done all you can. But don’t be bitter or get defensive and play victim because someone posted the link to a product, off another vendor’s site, to simply answer the question of the original poster. Your shop doesn’t come up 1st on google when “umi camaro lowering springs” is searched https://www.google.com/search?biw=11....0.JcVR66H58-w

Bottom line, I flat out do not care how anyone spends their money or how it’s allocated (including your possessions, your income, your operating costs). I do care however when I read through a thread and someone isn’t getting the whole picture painted for them by you or anyone else. Forums exist for information sharing. Contribute the best information you can so it’s of quality value when people read it. If you’re a vendor you’ll be rewarded accordingly if the information shared is respected/appreciated by the person and they have a need for your products or services you offer.

We as consumers work hard for our money too, so spending it on an elastic hobby like performance vehicles is an extra for most of us. Money is going where we get the most for it. If your business model rests on pulling in customers from forums and expecting them to pay more based on your perceived consultation, that’s your fight to fight. Remember there’s a vast amount of information out there, giving insight to consumers…forums, google, etc… then a simple google search gets best total price from various suppliers and returns without 20% restocking fees.

Additionally, you still never answered my question from 2 days ago that spurred your defensive paragraphs of commentary and my lengthy response. Summit Racing is offering UMI springs for $239.99/shipped. Your site doesn’t specify the total price, even at checkout, on any product. You can’t tell us shipping at the time of a phone sale either. What’s the answer if the OP is interested in buying springs or other products and does their due diligence on price?

I genuinely wish you and the shop nothing but the best, Sam. I respectfully think you’re able to do better with regard to the way you carry yourself when conversing with your potential customers.

Originally Posted by smitty2919

I agree 100000000%

Giving advice and being friendly is part of being a business owner. The reason to buy the same product for more money from a "little guy" is simply due to having respect and "help the little guy" thought process.

If the customer only cares about price, then it's difficult to compete when the same products can be had cheaper even if it's for free shipping.

I personally have not had the best interaction online nor on the phone with Sam, maybe I caught him on an "off day". I know many praise him for his customer support, but most like to accept his opinons blindly and do not argue. I, however, do not do that and like to be educated on the topic which requires more conversation which turns into a one sided chat.

I appreciate the work you did on your springs, I ran them for 2 years. I appreciate your work on the brake booster brace, I bought one. I appreciate your involvement on UMI's coil overs, I run them now. But the secrecy of wheel offset, shipping charges after the fact, and the defensive responses to anything that resembles going against your opinion and "designing" and marketing the hub adapters irks me. No law against copying something without a patent, but credit goes to Rocketman for the hub adapter design IMO. He designed them and you (with your connections/financial capability) are able to bring them to the masses easier than Rocketman could. So both have their place in the racing community.

Originally Posted by Sam Strano

And to be upset at me for offering to explain how something works is insane. Most folks like that, and if you aren't one then that's fine, but if I think something isn't going to work in a system well, that's critical for people to know, because guess who gets the blame if it doesn't work? Hint, 99% of the time the customer never blames themselves.

Originally Posted by smitty2919

Nope, I mentioned the opposite. I have tried to ask the "why this why that" but I feel it came off as disagreement when I was only looking for a more technical explanation of the situation, to which point it was a one sided discussion being told what I should do because your race history proves it. I assume I am a minority with this opinion but the numerous interactions I have had were the same way so I stopped interacting.
Is what it is and I move on.

Originally Posted by Sam Strano

I do my best to explain things, but it's difficult to give someone a complete education on the phone, and also hope they understand.

Let me ask, how long were we on the phone? 1 minute, 5? 15? 30? I am willing to bet it was closer to 30, if not more than it was to 5. Have we talked more than once, you seem to indicate that we have. So are you telling me that you have never gotten any useful information?

Originally Posted by ThoR294

Member when BMR copied stranos springs? I member.

Originally Posted by DANSBIRD

It seems rare to find a builder/owner that has the people skills to also pull off customer service. Not talking about Sam... just speaking in general about something I've noticed. I know several folks/companies who are the owners of a shop, are also the mechanics, and fabricators... and are not so easy to deal w/ over the phone. It's simply not in their skill set. That's where knowledgeable customer service reps w/ quality people skills come in quite well (but that also costs money, too). Easier said than done, I know.

One exception to this is Midwest Chassis. I've called them several times in regards to having a rear end built and they've been incredibly patient and helpful, despite also doing the building/assembling. Guys, if you're reading this... I know you've got to get frustrated handling customer calls while you're building stuff, but you handle it all incredibly well and professionally. Good job. It's noticed and appreciated.