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Fair enough. How many times have you experienced brake fade on the street?
Once. And narrowly escaping death once is enough for me. I was driving on the back roads early one Sunday morning, and yeah, if you do a handful of 70 or 80 to 30mph stops in a short amount of time your factory brakes WILL FADE. Mine barely gave me any notice. If that last stop light had been red instead of green....... I'll never play around like that on stock brakes ever again.
In addition to the benefits of durability for racing (greater heat sink in rotor, beefier caliper, etc.), I've always thought the reason so many luxury/performance cars go for big brakes these days has to do with threshold braking. Now, most of us have ABS, so we aren't the ones doing the threshold braking--the ABS system is. It's more of a binary method of on-off-on-off to approach the threshold, but it is threshold braking nonetheless.
Let's say your steering wheel was spinning rapidly and you were attempting to regain control of the vehicle. Imagine how hard that would be to do by grabbing at the wheel hub/airbag in the center. You could do it, but it wouldn't be smooth. By contrast, if you gradually applied pressure to the rim of your steering wheel, where you have more leverage, you could slowly stop the rotation in a controlled manner. I believe the same concept applies to the big brake systems. Not only do you have increased leverage with an extended radius, but you have so much more control of the way the pad itself bites into the rotor in using a fixed caliper with 4 or 6 pistons to make sure that there is even pressure applied and surfaces stay parallel. With a sliding caliper and one or two pistons, the caliper may try to twist under heavy braking forces, one pin may slide easier than the other, the edge of the pad may bite into the rotor without good contact across the surface, one side of the caliper may do more of the braking, etc. If you've ever felt the extreme polarity of on-off under full ABS lockup, of brake-slip-brake-slip, then you know the limitations of the stock configuration.
As ultimate stopping power is limited by the grip of your tires (primarily the fronts), there is some logic in saying that the admittedly great stock LS1 brakes cannot be exceeded without sticky race tires. However, under full ABS lockup, I believe that the big kits are capable of maintaining a closer, sustained braking force up to, but not exceeding that limit of static friction. It isn't going to be much, but at high speeds, that could translate to a car-length or more, which can be huge, especially if there's already a car in that spot.
Modern cars also typically have larger diameter wheels as well, so the amount of inertia goes up by a bit I'd say, and larger brakes are needed to keep braking power and inertia in check. I have 35 inch tires on my truck with stock brakes. They stop the truck but sure as hell dont feel the same as they did with factory sized wheels and tires.
Modern cars also typically have larger diameter wheels as well, so the amount of inertia goes up by a bit I'd say, and larger brakes are needed to keep braking power and inertia in check. I have 35 inch tires on my truck with stock brakes. They stop the truck but sure as hell dont feel the same as they did with factory sized wheels and tires.
Most modern cars have a larger wheel but smaller profile tire and are also most likely to have an aluminum wheel rather than steel that a lot of cars used to have. There might be some weight difference but not a lot and it's offset by the larger brakes that come from the factory.
For normal everyday driving stock brakes are more than adequate, In my case I tripled the power and also put on a tire with probably triple to grip of my stock S10 tires and wheels so bigger brakes were a no brainer.
It all comes down to the way you drive and what changes have been made over the stock configuration.
I know people that drive like they are on their way to church and others that drive it like they stole it (all the time lol)
Personally I love the feel of the brakes on my truck, I can hit the throttle and use the 550+ hp to set them back in the seat then nail the 14" brakes and throw them towards the dash just as hard. I have people ask for rides and they are just as impressed with how it stops and turns as they are with the power. They expect it to be fast they don't expect to be thrown around inside the cab as you brake and turn. One thing I like to do is ask them to hold out their hand after they get out, 9 out of 10 times they are shaking like crazy yet want to go again lol
From the testimonies I've heard, 14” gen 5 Camaro SS rotars with Cts-V1 calipers stop so much better than stock brakes on the street and 1/4 mile track, so i'm not following when people are saying they aren't needed unless you do a autocross event. Sure they may not be needed to stop, but the whole idea of the upgrade is about bringing the car to a complete stop faster than a stock setup would.
but the whole idea of the upgrade is about bringing the car to a complete stop faster than a stock setup would.
And in most cases the they won't do that any better than the stock brakes, It's only when you abuse them that they will hold up longer before brake fade becomes a problem.
FWIW a heavier rotor won’t impact your acceleration as much as a heavier wheel will. The closer the heavier weight is to the centerline, the less overall acceleration loss you have. If you gained that much weight in a wheel and most of the added weight is towards the tire, that will make a much bigger negative difference. I’m a hair splitter myself. Every little bit counts I feel. But my car had bad brake fade so I upgraded rotors and calipers to heavier units. I’m glad I did and I’d do it again. I feel the extra stopping power I had saved me twice. My stock brakes would not have stopped me fast enough I’m certain. I had an old man pull right out in front of me one night like he never even saw me. I was going about 60. I barely missed him. I would have t boned him and likely injured him very badly because it was the driver side facing me. Had I not had that extra braking power I know I would have hit him. My .02
I swapped to the 5th gen Brembo setup around 2009 while in Germany because the daily driving speeds are much higher and I was warping rotors fairly often over there. They worked much better than stock and even performed great on a bunch on Nurburgring track outings. I never had much issues with the 5th gen set up until I came off the track day at last years LSfest west. Vegas heat didn't help either and after a 7 lap session I boiled the fluid and went to stop pulling back on to the main drag and pedal went to the floor and the car didn't stop. That's with using new DOT4 fluid. Since that little scare, I stepped up to the 14.6" rotor with the 6 piston brembo setup (from a Fisker but same as the CTS-V setup) and have had no issues after many more track events. The rotors are very heavy (27#) but I will live with that as my car is 75% auto-x/road course and the rest is street.
Last edited by Chrisingermany; 08-09-2018 at 09:32 AM.
I have my calipers setting on my workbench waiting on doing this mod, admittedly mine is mostly for appearance, but after the 414 swap i was never happy with the braking of the OE stuff.
not looking forward to the cost of the adapters to run those rears though.......
I swapped to the 5th gen Brembo setup around 2009 while in Germany because the daily driving speeds are much higher and I was warping rotors fairly often over there. They worked much better than stock and even performed great on a bunch on Nurburgring track outings. I never had much issues with the 5th gen set up until I came off the track day at last years LSfest west. Vegas heat didn't help either and after a 7 lap session I boiled the fluid and went to stop pulling back on to the main drag and pedal went to the floor and the car didn't stop. That's with using new DOT4 fluid. Since that little scare, I stepped up to the 14.6" rotor with the 6 piston brembo setup (from a Fisker but same as the CTS-V setup) and have had no issues after many more track events. The rotors are very heavy (27#) but I will live with that as my car is 75% auto-x/road course and the rest is street.
Damn, those calipers and rotors are heavy. That only reinforces my desire to spend ludicrous money on this kit. 6lbs per 6-piston caliper, 17lbs per 14" rotor/hat combo. Some people spend $3-4K on cylinder heads, I'll do it on brakes.
08-08-2018, 10:53 AM
