BMR Vrs Spohn Vrs UMI
10-01-2004, 07:35 PM
#61
Originally Posted by DMNSPD
I'm not talking about z2802sunsetls1, I'm talking about mitchntx. After all, you are the most opinionated poster in the handling and braking forum.
I know my facts Mitch - the way I get them is simply just for me to know and for you not to worry about.
I know my facts Mitch - the way I get them is simply just for me to know and for you not to worry about.
You said this
Originally Posted by DMNSPD
The heading of this topic was BMR vrs Spohn vrs UMI. I didn't see LG mentioned anywhere, so why is it one person always has to admit LG for consideration when they know damn well that that the people asking the quesion don't need it.
Originally Posted by z2802sunsetls1
before u look at buying those products check out www.lgmotorsports.com i think they have the best susp. products
Originally Posted by DMNSPD
Ditto on the rod ended stuff. Ryan from UMI explained the difference to me when I decided on my control arms. I think everyone gets caught up on "GET THE BEST!, buy the rod ends." From my understanding, rod ends are really only going to help if you're into SCCA or open track. If you drive the car everyday, live for each blast down the ¼ and maybe hit up a track day once a year, save yourself the money and frustration and just go with the poly ends (talking LCA's here). UMI does offer adjustable control arms with QA1 rod ends, but we decided the poly/poly LCAs were what would benefit my driving habits.
For the Panhard, the adjustable is definitly the way to go. The main advantage to that is it will let you center the rear end. I'm going to go with the UMI adjustable panhard when I feel I need to get one.
The LCA brackets are just something needed to correct the geometry of the 3 link rear. I have them on my car even though it's not lowered, but a lowered car really needs them.
Now for the VS. part of the thread...
LG, Spohn, BMR, etc... they all make fine products. There is no doubt about it. BUT, UMI offers the same, if not better, quality in a more affordable pacakge. If UMI was truely junk, do you think they'd still be a sponser? UMI keeps growing and growing, so I would NOT hesitate to give them a try. Another great thing about UMI is Ryan will bend over backwards to help you with any problem. That's excellent customer service you might not get anywhere else.
So in the end, why pay more for quality? UMI is NOT too good to be true, and they'll be around for some time to come.
For the Panhard, the adjustable is definitly the way to go. The main advantage to that is it will let you center the rear end. I'm going to go with the UMI adjustable panhard when I feel I need to get one.
The LCA brackets are just something needed to correct the geometry of the 3 link rear. I have them on my car even though it's not lowered, but a lowered car really needs them.
Now for the VS. part of the thread...
LG, Spohn, BMR, etc... they all make fine products. There is no doubt about it. BUT, UMI offers the same, if not better, quality in a more affordable pacakge. If UMI was truely junk, do you think they'd still be a sponser? UMI keeps growing and growing, so I would NOT hesitate to give them a try. Another great thing about UMI is Ryan will bend over backwards to help you with any problem. That's excellent customer service you might not get anywhere else.
So in the end, why pay more for quality? UMI is NOT too good to be true, and they'll be around for some time to come.
Originally Posted by mitchntx
I've had LGM rod ended components on my car for almost 3 years now and they don't rattle.
If you buy quality components ... components that use quality parts ... you will be amazed at the performance difference and the way they last.
DMNSPD makes a valid point, though. If you only use your car to cruise, need to pad your internet signature and not as concerned about performance and durability, then cheap parts are definitely an option.
If you buy quality components ... components that use quality parts ... you will be amazed at the performance difference and the way they last.
DMNSPD makes a valid point, though. If you only use your car to cruise, need to pad your internet signature and not as concerned about performance and durability, then cheap parts are definitely an option.
So, 2802sunsetls1 brought LGM into the frickas first, then you validated LGM's quality parts ... not me.
Yes, I'm opinionated, but not based on talking to a salesman on the phone, rather using the parts on my car.
Now, I know you have UMI parts on your car, but what other parts have you used to give a fair comparison? I've openly admitted I've never used UMI parts. I have no need to spend even more money.
This could go on for a while ... so, you can have it. I'm done. I read somewhere once that one shouldn't argue with ignorant people. They wear you down, then beat you with exprience.
Cannibal, Louis would know, but mine came out of a box marked Aurora Bearing, last spring. But, you can't take my word, because I have an opinion. I went out to my shop just now and looked at the rod ends. They have no brand markings on them, but my micrometer does say they are 3/4". I don't know what's on the car, bearing brand wise.
But they make no noise like cheap ones do
The only BMR end I have is 7/16" shank.
10-01-2004, 08:33 PM
#62
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I think we should put it to a rest, we all have our own opinons and experiences to share.
The last LG adjust. PHB I saw was 6 months ago and I am pretty sure it was a QA1 or at least it looked identical to the ends I run by QA1, it was also 3/4". Whether LG uses QA1 or not it is still a great rod end from my experience and research.
What I think we have gotten from this thread is both LG and UMI customers are happy with there product....and thats what counts! right?
The last LG adjust. PHB I saw was 6 months ago and I am pretty sure it was a QA1 or at least it looked identical to the ends I run by QA1, it was also 3/4". Whether LG uses QA1 or not it is still a great rod end from my experience and research.
What I think we have gotten from this thread is both LG and UMI customers are happy with there product....and thats what counts! right?
10-02-2004, 08:00 AM
#64
Mitch, you might feel I am full of ignorance (which is fine because you're entitled to your opinion), but you were making statments and I was simply trying to validate them. It doesn't seem too often that someone 2nd guesses your opinion, so why shouldn't I play some games? 
Have a good weekend.
Have a good weekend.
10-04-2004, 09:01 PM
#65
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[QUOTE=MeentSS02].
Rod ends are great for corner carving...they don't bind when they move side to side like a poly end would. Hell, even rubber is better than poly (like a 1LE control arm) for racing of this nature. For straight line performance, this doesn't really matter.
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The lower control arms and pan hard rod keep the housing located. if you have binding problems with a poly end like the one on the spohn set up you have other problems that need adressed. The poly end on the Spohn arm uses 3/8" thick plates and 1/2" bolts with very tight tolerance. Binding due to side loading is unheard of.
Rod ends are great for corner carving...they don't bind when they move side to side like a poly end would. Hell, even rubber is better than poly (like a 1LE control arm) for racing of this nature. For straight line performance, this doesn't really matter.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
The lower control arms and pan hard rod keep the housing located. if you have binding problems with a poly end like the one on the spohn set up you have other problems that need adressed. The poly end on the Spohn arm uses 3/8" thick plates and 1/2" bolts with very tight tolerance. Binding due to side loading is unheard of.
10-04-2004, 09:10 PM
#66
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[QUOTE=Jeremiah] I have found a poly set up control arm to be much more effective under track use then a rubber set up. I agree and understand poly may "bind" but poly is alot firmer then rubber. So when it comes to drag this is a better set up, next best thing to a solid bushing.
Originally Posted by MeentSS02
.
Rod ends are great for corner carving...they don't bind when they move side to side like a poly end would. Hell, even rubber is better than poly (like a 1LE control arm) for racing of this nature. For straight line performance, this doesn't really matter.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
The lower control arms and pan hard rod keep the housing located. if you have binding problems with a poly end like the one on the spohn set up you have other problems that need adressed. The poly end on the Spohn arm uses 3/8" thick plates and 1/2" bolts with very tight tolerance. Binding due to side loading is unheard of.
Rod ends are great for corner carving...they don't bind when they move side to side like a poly end would. Hell, even rubber is better than poly (like a 1LE control arm) for racing of this nature. For straight line performance, this doesn't really matter.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
The lower control arms and pan hard rod keep the housing located. if you have binding problems with a poly end like the one on the spohn set up you have other problems that need adressed. The poly end on the Spohn arm uses 3/8" thick plates and 1/2" bolts with very tight tolerance. Binding due to side loading is unheard of.
10-22-2004, 01:58 PM
#67
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I have been to umi, I live close(2 hours) both Conan and I toured the fac, Ryan was quite knowledgeable, I stubbled on them first at EBAY before they were a sponcer here, I figured I take a drive, I wasn't dissapointed, thier stuff is high quaility and extremly well priced, for the every day person, mild trackster its great stuff on a great budget. I have seen the bmrs and such, I even bought their adj tq arm because UMI didn't supply one yet(sorry Ryan) I still say that Umi are the best bang for the buck and I look forward to there kmember which I'm told will be out by Xmas.
02-23-2005, 07:45 PM
#68
Originally Posted by mitchntx
I've had LGM rod ended components on my car for almost 3 years now and they don't rattle.
If you buy quality components ... components that use quality parts ... you will be amazed at the performance difference and the way they last.
DMNSPD makes a valid point, though. If you only use your car to cruise, need to pad your internet signature and not as concerned about performance and durability, then cheap parts are definitely an option.
If you buy quality components ... components that use quality parts ... you will be amazed at the performance difference and the way they last.
DMNSPD makes a valid point, though. If you only use your car to cruise, need to pad your internet signature and not as concerned about performance and durability, then cheap parts are definitely an option.
Or just because its less expensive it isnt any good? I got a deal on some tires at Les Schwab.. GY F1's for $70 a piece but I could have paid $200 a piece from the dealer. Am I to think I got an inferior tire because I paid less at a discount tire wharehouse?
Don’t buy into all the marketing hype. Look at material, construction and thickness.. same part for less money = good deal.
prices. for the same LCA's LGM 179.00 UMI 169.99 specs are the same
the big difference is with panhard rod. for the same rod LGM 179.00 UMI 99.95 again the specs are the same. You can spend the extra hundred + on LMG is you want to but you get the same thing at UMI. All the mfg specs are the exact same.
Last edited by 99_black_SS_m6_T's; 02-23-2005 at 11:04 PM.
02-24-2005, 09:19 AM
#69
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I'm having a hard time believeing this since I went from the Spohn poly/poly to G2 poly/rod. Just driving around town, I was getting a good bit of oversteer (mostly attributable to my 25mm rear sway bar). I put the poly/rod LCAs on, and I don't have nearly as much oversteer (same bar on there), and you'll have to believe me, I don't drive this car slow. Long story short: you are gonna have a hard time convincing me that poly/poly doesn't bind under hard cornering. If you can address my "other" problems, please feel free. If you need details on my full setup, I can provide that. I mean, think about it. One side mounts to the body, one side mounts to the rear end. In a corner, the body rolls while the axle stays on the ground. You can't tell me that a poly/poly LCA that can't possibly twist like this is NOT going to bind.
I can even comment on noise issues with *quality* rod ends (all QA1s), since I now have G2 poly/rod LCAs. For the first 200 miles, they were silent. Then they started to loosen up. The noise has leveled off, and it is only something you will hear going slowly through parking lots or down a really rough road. They aren't nearly as loud as my rod/rod LCAs were with cheap rod ends, so that is nice. I really like how they perform, so I'll live with the noise. Long story short on this one: I still don't believe that rod ended components don't make noise.
The lower control arms and pan hard rod keep the housing located. if you have binding problems with a poly end like the one on the spohn set up you have other problems that need adressed. The poly end on the Spohn arm uses 3/8" thick plates and 1/2" bolts with very tight tolerance. Binding due to side loading is unheard of.
I'm having a hard time believeing this since I went from the Spohn poly/poly to G2 poly/rod. Just driving around town, I was getting a good bit of oversteer (mostly attributable to my 25mm rear sway bar). I put the poly/rod LCAs on, and I don't have nearly as much oversteer (same bar on there), and you'll have to believe me, I don't drive this car slow. Long story short: you are gonna have a hard time convincing me that poly/poly doesn't bind under hard cornering. If you can address my "other" problems, please feel free. If you need details on my full setup, I can provide that. I mean, think about it. One side mounts to the body, one side mounts to the rear end. In a corner, the body rolls while the axle stays on the ground. You can't tell me that a poly/poly LCA that can't possibly twist like this is NOT going to bind.
I can even comment on noise issues with *quality* rod ends (all QA1s), since I now have G2 poly/rod LCAs. For the first 200 miles, they were silent. Then they started to loosen up. The noise has leveled off, and it is only something you will hear going slowly through parking lots or down a really rough road. They aren't nearly as loud as my rod/rod LCAs were with cheap rod ends, so that is nice. I really like how they perform, so I'll live with the noise. Long story short on this one: I still don't believe that rod ended components don't make noise.
02-24-2005, 09:24 AM
#70
Originally Posted by 2w0s060
I have found a poly set up control arm to be much more effective under track use then a rubber set up. I agree and understand poly may "bind" but poly is alot firmer then rubber. So when it comes to drag this is a better set up, next best thing to a solid bushing.
02-24-2005, 09:33 AM
#71
Funny thing here is that all the MFG's all say the same thing. Poly/rod for non-binding, poly/poly for drag. Poly/poly can(possibly) bind on road courses. Thats a quote from 4 different companies mfg the LCA's. Not sure what the argument here is when the manufacturer tells you what the applications are.
02-24-2005, 10:22 AM
#73
Originally Posted by 99_black_SS_m6_T's
The real question here is why is the LMG panhard rod $80 more than the UMI for the exact same rod? $179.99 vs $99.95 single adjustable. Same construction and material. The LCA's only have a $9 difference.
02-24-2005, 12:44 PM
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Wow some of you guys are nuts....Time to relax a bit and not get so offended when someone disses your product.
So it seems that Spohn, UMI, and LG all use the same rod end and bushings....yippee, they must all be pretty similar.
So make your decision on total price, shipping charges, who you believe constucts a better piece, and if you want which company name you like better
So it seems that Spohn, UMI, and LG all use the same rod end and bushings....yippee, they must all be pretty similar.
So make your decision on total price, shipping charges, who you believe constucts a better piece, and if you want which company name you like better
02-25-2005, 06:07 AM
#75
Originally Posted by 2002 Trans Am
Wow some of you guys are nuts....Time to relax a bit and not get so offended when someone disses your product.
So it seems that Spohn, UMI, and LG all use the same rod end and bushings....yippee, they must all be pretty similar.
So make your decision on total price, shipping charges, who you believe constucts a better piece, and if you want which company name you like better
So it seems that Spohn, UMI, and LG all use the same rod end and bushings....yippee, they must all be pretty similar.
So make your decision on total price, shipping charges, who you believe constucts a better piece, and if you want which company name you like better
"One click" got it quick for me...
02-25-2005, 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by MeentSS02
Pretty much...even if you get a bar with cheap rod ends like I did, they can always be replaced with QA1s...Jeg's even carries them "One click" got it quick for me...
"One click" got it quick for me...Also check the sizes, some companys use a 5/8" end where I feel more comfortable with 3/4".
02-26-2005, 01:11 PM
#78
Originally Posted by 2w0s060
Yes very true, those rod ends are $29.99ea plus shipping, it adds up. Might be cheaper just to buy one that already has them.
Also check the sizes, some companys use a 5/8" end where I feel more comfortable with 3/4".
Also check the sizes, some companys use a 5/8" end where I feel more comfortable with 3/4".
02-26-2005, 03:59 PM
#79
I certainly do not want to get into an argument here; I will voice my M.E. opinion.
The issue of 5/8 and 3/4 inch alloy steel qa1 rod ends is a non-issue.
The LCA and PHR are almost under pure axial loading. Both sizes are overkill when comparing to what actual stresses are seen. I can state with a high degree of certainty you'll never break either style. The larger rod ends adding ~.5 lbs per set or 36% more weight per rod end add no performance benefits. The factor of safety margin is so high, it isn’t an issue.
There are reasons why particular rod ends are chosen. It may be one may work better for each companies design...It may be something that is boasted for marketing reasons stating since it's bigger, it must be better philosophy.
This can have a large affect to how the consumer purchases a product. The everyday layman relies on a company’s word; many times assuming it must be better if they say so or point out specific "attributes" of their product over another competitor’s brand.
...it may be simply the fact that one company is copying a competitor with no engineering analysis or attempt to alter a design. They may not have the knowledge or experience to look at a particular design from an engineering analysis position. They may know how to weld or put a part together but not know how to actually design their own part. They may feel more confident relying on the competitor’s real world testing that if it works, then why try to reinvent the wheel…
The issue of 5/8 and 3/4 inch alloy steel qa1 rod ends is a non-issue.
The LCA and PHR are almost under pure axial loading. Both sizes are overkill when comparing to what actual stresses are seen. I can state with a high degree of certainty you'll never break either style. The larger rod ends adding ~.5 lbs per set or 36% more weight per rod end add no performance benefits. The factor of safety margin is so high, it isn’t an issue.
There are reasons why particular rod ends are chosen. It may be one may work better for each companies design...It may be something that is boasted for marketing reasons stating since it's bigger, it must be better philosophy.
This can have a large affect to how the consumer purchases a product. The everyday layman relies on a company’s word; many times assuming it must be better if they say so or point out specific "attributes" of their product over another competitor’s brand.
...it may be simply the fact that one company is copying a competitor with no engineering analysis or attempt to alter a design. They may not have the knowledge or experience to look at a particular design from an engineering analysis position. They may know how to weld or put a part together but not know how to actually design their own part. They may feel more confident relying on the competitor’s real world testing that if it works, then why try to reinvent the wheel…
02-26-2005, 04:34 PM
#80
Originally Posted by steve10
I certainly do not want to get into an argument here; I will voice my M.E. opinion.
The issue of 5/8 and 3/4 inch alloy steel qa1 rod ends is a non-issue.
The LCA and PHR are almost under pure axial loading. Both sizes are overkill when comparing to what actual stresses are seen. I can state with a high degree of certainty you'll never break either style. The larger rod ends adding ~.5 lbs per set or 36% more weight per rod end add no performance benefits. The factor of safety margin is so high, it isn’t an issue.
There are reasons why particular rod ends are chosen. It may be one may work better for each companies design...It may be something that is boasted for marketing reasons stating since it's bigger, it must be better philosophy.
This can have a large affect to how the consumer purchases a product. The everyday layman relies on a company’s word; many times assuming it must be better if they say so or point out specific "attributes" of their product over another competitor’s brand.
...it may be simply the fact that one company is copying a competitor with no engineering analysis or attempt to alter a design. They may not have the knowledge or experience to look at a particular design from an engineering analysis position. They may know how to weld or put a part together but not know how to actually design their own part. They may feel more confident relying on the competitor’s real world testing that if it works, then why try to reinvent the wheel…
The issue of 5/8 and 3/4 inch alloy steel qa1 rod ends is a non-issue.
The LCA and PHR are almost under pure axial loading. Both sizes are overkill when comparing to what actual stresses are seen. I can state with a high degree of certainty you'll never break either style. The larger rod ends adding ~.5 lbs per set or 36% more weight per rod end add no performance benefits. The factor of safety margin is so high, it isn’t an issue.
There are reasons why particular rod ends are chosen. It may be one may work better for each companies design...It may be something that is boasted for marketing reasons stating since it's bigger, it must be better philosophy.
This can have a large affect to how the consumer purchases a product. The everyday layman relies on a company’s word; many times assuming it must be better if they say so or point out specific "attributes" of their product over another competitor’s brand.
...it may be simply the fact that one company is copying a competitor with no engineering analysis or attempt to alter a design. They may not have the knowledge or experience to look at a particular design from an engineering analysis position. They may know how to weld or put a part together but not know how to actually design their own part. They may feel more confident relying on the competitor’s real world testing that if it works, then why try to reinvent the wheel…