HPP

Was debating with someone over the track capability of an '02 WS6 T/A. Sometime back when I was looking for skidpad #s on this site, I found .94 for a CETA. I've heard that the Nissan 350Z is .88.

But recent googling has only turned up .88 for the '02 WS6 T/A, and anywhere from .86 to .92 for the 350Z.

This has me wondering, why so much variation, and why would the T/A be so low?

One site I found numbers for the 350Z at had the stats from several magazine tests. They were consistent with one another for acceleration and deceleration tests, but varied wildly in the skidpad results.

Are there different methods for testing this?

What hurts the T/A so badly?

What I've found is that the '03 350Z is 270lbs lighter (which isn't much, and doesn't matter for G load as it can be compensated for with traction patch............ or so I've heard/been lead to understand), has 53/47 weight distribution, and has 18x8" rims.

The WS6 T/A has 56/44 weight distribution, and 17x9.5 (or was it x9?)" rims.

With more rubber on the ground, even though it has a little more weight, why is it at best, only equal to the Z at it's worst?

Since the test circle should be smooth, the live axle shouldn't hurt, right?

Given the much better acceleration and higher top end, which would come out on top at a road course?

I'm still kinda new to the hardcore side of all this and am just trying to understand it.

While I'm asking these kinds of questions though, why is it that every specs site I look at says that the T/A can turn more tightly one way, than the other? What's the hold up to the off side?

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

The F-body is much heavier than a Z-car. The tires are really about the same. The Z-car has a better alignment for grip from the factory. Those are some of the tangible differences. The intangibles are that not all skidpads are the same. Bumps will lower your numbers. The size of the pad will too, as will the surface and a lot of other factors.

Most cars will corner better one way that the other due to where the weight is. F-bodies have an additional hitch. The solid axle. The panhard bar is attached to the axle on the left and the body on the right. When you turn left, the body gets pulled down. When you turn right, it wants to rise up. The rear roll center changes greatly when this happens, and the grip level of the car also changes.

A skidpad shows you mechanical grip. A track shows you some of that, power, stability and driveability. And they are very similar on a road course. Look up SCCA T2 results from the Nationals runoffs. They add a very small restrictor on the Camaro's, and the 350Z runs that same class. They both finish at the top. The Z-car has better brakes and handles better (remembering the class is very stock like on suspensions). The F-body out powers it. Result, about a wash. A faster track than Mid-Ohio and you might see the Z-car slide back. A more handling track and it'd probably get ahead.

That's a track, and you must remember the T2 f-bodies also all have GOOD shocks, which a stock car does not. On a twisty road, stock to stock..... the Z-car is likely faster due to being better out of the box. Add some decent shocks to the Camaro/Firebird and a better swaybar, and you have a good match.

HPP

Thanks.

I suppose the next question would be about weights. How much difference could there concievably in weight between M6 WS6 T/As? The only option I know about is the CD changer. The rest is all the same. And I've seen 3,495lbs. Not sure how accurate that is, but it was on a site that listed weights by option level. The Z was listed at 3,225lbs. You said the F-Body is "much heavier". Is 270lbs really that much?

I would have assumed that people running skidpads would take the time to make sure it was smooth and of basic asphualt, not something more or less sticky. I guess this isn't true?

I'm not sure the turning thing I meant is what you answered, but that is good info none-the-less. I meant the actual turn radius. Most cars list the same radius left or right. The F-body doesn't. I forget the numbers, and which side is worse now, but it's almost as if the front wheels won't turn as far to one side or something.

A 4-link would solve that PHR problem, wouldn't it? Are there kits out there for it? Or would it be just as well (or better) to find a C4 rear?

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

270 pounds is a lot, it's about 8% of the total. I've never seen a turning radius listed as different left vs. right.........

Aside from that, let me add (and not to be a pain) that you are reading way to much into the numbers. It's information, but a car that skidpads well might drive like crap overall. A car that can't pull a good G figure can drive very well in the real world too.
And skidpads are hugely effected by the tires. My car, when I ran in a class called F-stock for autox would pull about 1.05 g's, due mostly to the trick tires. the Z car has much better stock tires than an f-body does.

Skidpads don't mean much in the real world, not many relatively smooth 200' radius corners that you just go round and round on.

trackbird

iTrader: (4)

What Sam means is that the skid pad numbers will change. It depends if the car is turning left or right. The rear suspension does not work the same way in both directions (close, but not exactly).

4 links are generally bad for handling, they often bind when the axle rotates (body roll, one wheel in a pothole).

A C4 rear is not an easy conversion. You can do very well by prepping what you have under the car already. A rear swap (to IRS) is not needed (unless you are looking to be one of the only ones around and have money to burn). An alignment, shocks, springs, a slight reduction of ride height and a 35mm front sway bar will go a long way in your quest and you can build on it from there.

Don't get hung up on skid pad numbers. Very few corners in the real world look like a skid pad (mostly smooth, flat, typically a 300 foot radius, etc). Skid pad numbers are to handling what dyno numbers are to drag racing (but worse). You can "guess" all day long, the only way to know is to drive it.