Upgrading Brakes on Z06
02-14-2005, 08:25 AM
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Upgrading Brakes on Z06 What recommendation can you give to upgrade the brake's.
Looking to not get crazy-Brembo kit, etc...
What will give quality upgrades and still drop stopping times and help with brake over heating. How good are the stock Z06 on repeated stopings- I've noticed they fade after 2 or 3 high speed stops.
Looking to not get crazy-Brembo kit, etc...
What will give quality upgrades and still drop stopping times and help with brake over heating. How good are the stock Z06 on repeated stopings- I've noticed they fade after 2 or 3 high speed stops.
02-14-2005, 01:10 PM
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I do not track the car yet, but this maybe coming. At times, i do some aggressive driving and I'm surprised the brakes begin to fade after a few stops, not alot, but some so far.
about 1500 or get some brake ducting Trending Topics
02-17-2005, 05:46 AM
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Rears have SS pistons and Wilwood H pads with stock caliper. I want to put Wilwood calipers. It stops great now. I was going to go 14" front two piece rotor but the $25 NAPA are hard to give up. Also I would need two sets of Wilwoods to swap at track if required. I couldn't swap the aluminum hats to the rotor at the track as they have to be safety wired. Thats why I would need two sets if they crack.
02-19-2005, 09:24 PM
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Speedpup, did you do the change(rear) stock calipers to the stainless steel piston your self?? How difficult is this and how long does it take.
This change to stainless and Wilwood h pads made that much of a difference on the rears???
This change to stainless and Wilwood h pads made that much of a difference on the rears???
02-19-2005, 09:29 PM
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Has anyone hear or done- Change the front stock Z06 calipers to the rears. Can this work?? I guess the master cylinder would have to be upgrade- to what???
I looking into a spring project of Wilwoods Big brake 6 piston for the fronts and i want to upgrade the rears, but with a small investment. The fronts are enough.
The best prices for this Wilwood 6 pistons I've seen is LG Motorsports. Anyone know of a better deal, keep my rotors.
Thanks
I looking into a spring project of Wilwoods Big brake 6 piston for the fronts and i want to upgrade the rears, but with a small investment. The fronts are enough.
The best prices for this Wilwood 6 pistons I've seen is LG Motorsports. Anyone know of a better deal, keep my rotors.
Thanks
02-19-2005, 10:25 PM
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Originally Posted by jz06man
Speedpup, did you do the change(rear) stock calipers to the stainless steel piston your self?? How difficult is this and how long does it take.
This change to stainless and Wilwood h pads made that much of a difference on the rears???
This change to stainless and Wilwood h pads made that much of a difference on the rears???
It not hard and I got the pistons from VNM Vettes N More. Just pop off caliper blow them out with some air and pop the new ones in. If you can do a brake job you can do it. LGM kit is better because it has thicker pads of .80" leave the rears stock size they work great. You would need a DRM master at 600 otherwise. Not worth doing unless you are going 14" AP or Brembo in front.
02-20-2005, 12:31 PM
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I'll don't really want to touch pad selection... If you're not tracking it, consider the PFC-Z pads at Autozone. They have a 2-year warranty. They used to have a lifetime warranty, but they recently cut it back to 2-years.
You mentioned installing front calipers in the back. Danny Popp likes that setup, but I think you can replicate it well enough by using stickier pads in the back. Installing front calipers in the back will add 5 lbs back there.
It's really hard to reduce stopping distances, so much so that I'd say it's practically impossible on street tires....on slicks, maybe, but the stock brakes stop the car as quickly as Wilwoods at speeds up to 120 mph.
Here's what I think you should do, in order of effectiveness:
1. Install cooling hoses to the center of the rotor
2. Install additional hoses to the caliper
3. Install Ti pad backing plates and/or SS pistons
4. Coat the inside of the calipers and the pistons faces with heat reflective ceramic coatings
5. Install SS brake lines...some brands are better than others...I've heard good things about the lines that Mallett sells
6. Install water cooling in the brake ducts
7. Brake fans
The mods above will maximize the stock setup. Here are the benefits of each mod:
1. Quicker rotor cooling which also affects calipers to a lesser degree, so less fade, longer rotor & pad life, reduced chance of rotor cracks
2. Better caliper cooling, reduced chance of caliper spread, more even pad wear, longer pad life
3. Less heat transfer into brake fluid, so reduced chance of boiling the brake fluid
4. Same as #3 and reduced chance of caliper spread
5. Less air absortion into the brake fluid due to the teflon lining, possibly stiffer brake pedal, more durable, bling (if you care)
6. #1 & #2, but more so
7. #1 & #2, but more so, especially while at low speeds or stopped
Aftermarket calipers have the potential for less caliper spread, better pad wear, more brake life for the buck, thicker pads, more pad surface area, better mechanical advantage, easier pad swaps, easier fluid bleeding, more bling....but you are very unlikely to get shortened braking distances on street tires. Again, use slicks and downforce, and I'm sure you'll see the benefits, but I haven't confirmed this. There are more worthless caliper brands than good brands, and you already mentioned one of the worthless brands in your first post.
2-piece rotors MAY reduce weight, but aftermarket rotors are generally beefier, and even if the aluminum hat allows the assembly to weigh the same as the stocker, it still pushes the weight to the edges, which is bad. Aftermarket rotors are also many times more expensive than Napa rotors, and don't work any better until you're braking hard enough to make those rotors glow, and then the beefier aftermarket rotors with their better designed vanes may be able to resist warping and cracking better than the stock rotors. Crossed drilled and/or slotted rotors usually make things worse...unless you consider self-destructing rotors a good thing! I know of one good drilled rotor, but it's really not worth the hassle. With rotors, more vanes are better for cooling.
Ti rotors will reduce weight, but the matter of their durability is still hotly contested.
Bigger diameter rotors will ONLY help if you're already getting stock size rotors hot enough to cause brake fade. It helps because it increases the surface area and thus the cooling area. The downside is additional rotating weight, unsprung weight, and even more expensive rotors.
Thicker rotors will help cooling, but introduce problems with wheel interference and finding calipers to fit it.
Improving aerodynamics has the potential to improve brake cooling as well. A lip in front of the wheel well ala C6 Z06 will lower the air pressure in the wheel well, and help pull hot air out...dive planes will do the same thing while also creating downforce. Venting the tops of the wheel wells into a functional ACP C5-R hood also helps pull hot air out, and reduce high speed lift. Radiusing the back lower edge of the wheel well will encourage air to flow underneath the car instead of stalling, which will help cooling and reduce lift. Venting the wheel wells to the side vents would also help pull air out of the wheel wells at high speeds, but I haven't seen anyone do this yet.
If you're going to do spend some money, and aren't just bench racing, then I'll be happy to post some links to where to find these upgrades.
Any questions??
Eugene
You mentioned installing front calipers in the back. Danny Popp likes that setup, but I think you can replicate it well enough by using stickier pads in the back. Installing front calipers in the back will add 5 lbs back there.
It's really hard to reduce stopping distances, so much so that I'd say it's practically impossible on street tires....on slicks, maybe, but the stock brakes stop the car as quickly as Wilwoods at speeds up to 120 mph.
Here's what I think you should do, in order of effectiveness:
1. Install cooling hoses to the center of the rotor
2. Install additional hoses to the caliper
3. Install Ti pad backing plates and/or SS pistons
4. Coat the inside of the calipers and the pistons faces with heat reflective ceramic coatings
5. Install SS brake lines...some brands are better than others...I've heard good things about the lines that Mallett sells
6. Install water cooling in the brake ducts
7. Brake fans
The mods above will maximize the stock setup. Here are the benefits of each mod:
1. Quicker rotor cooling which also affects calipers to a lesser degree, so less fade, longer rotor & pad life, reduced chance of rotor cracks
2. Better caliper cooling, reduced chance of caliper spread, more even pad wear, longer pad life
3. Less heat transfer into brake fluid, so reduced chance of boiling the brake fluid
4. Same as #3 and reduced chance of caliper spread
5. Less air absortion into the brake fluid due to the teflon lining, possibly stiffer brake pedal, more durable, bling (if you care)
6. #1 & #2, but more so
7. #1 & #2, but more so, especially while at low speeds or stopped
Aftermarket calipers have the potential for less caliper spread, better pad wear, more brake life for the buck, thicker pads, more pad surface area, better mechanical advantage, easier pad swaps, easier fluid bleeding, more bling....but you are very unlikely to get shortened braking distances on street tires. Again, use slicks and downforce, and I'm sure you'll see the benefits, but I haven't confirmed this. There are more worthless caliper brands than good brands, and you already mentioned one of the worthless brands in your first post.
2-piece rotors MAY reduce weight, but aftermarket rotors are generally beefier, and even if the aluminum hat allows the assembly to weigh the same as the stocker, it still pushes the weight to the edges, which is bad. Aftermarket rotors are also many times more expensive than Napa rotors, and don't work any better until you're braking hard enough to make those rotors glow, and then the beefier aftermarket rotors with their better designed vanes may be able to resist warping and cracking better than the stock rotors. Crossed drilled and/or slotted rotors usually make things worse...unless you consider self-destructing rotors a good thing! I know of one good drilled rotor, but it's really not worth the hassle. With rotors, more vanes are better for cooling.
Ti rotors will reduce weight, but the matter of their durability is still hotly contested.
Bigger diameter rotors will ONLY help if you're already getting stock size rotors hot enough to cause brake fade. It helps because it increases the surface area and thus the cooling area. The downside is additional rotating weight, unsprung weight, and even more expensive rotors.
Thicker rotors will help cooling, but introduce problems with wheel interference and finding calipers to fit it.
Improving aerodynamics has the potential to improve brake cooling as well. A lip in front of the wheel well ala C6 Z06 will lower the air pressure in the wheel well, and help pull hot air out...dive planes will do the same thing while also creating downforce. Venting the tops of the wheel wells into a functional ACP C5-R hood also helps pull hot air out, and reduce high speed lift. Radiusing the back lower edge of the wheel well will encourage air to flow underneath the car instead of stalling, which will help cooling and reduce lift. Venting the wheel wells to the side vents would also help pull air out of the wheel wells at high speeds, but I haven't seen anyone do this yet.
If you're going to do spend some money, and aren't just bench racing, then I'll be happy to post some links to where to find these upgrades.
Any questions??
Eugene
02-20-2005, 06:17 PM
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Long post and some good info.
Eugene, I am going with the brake upgrade. I would like not to spend alot in the processif possible.
I will increase air flow by installing some of these brake cooling ducts-Thanks.
Can you post the links your'e refering to. Are you familiar with SSBC Brakes. They have a 3 piston that looks intresting.
Thanks'
John
Eugene, I am going with the brake upgrade. I would like not to spend alot in the processif possible.
I will increase air flow by installing some of these brake cooling ducts-Thanks.
Can you post the links your'e refering to. Are you familiar with SSBC Brakes. They have a 3 piston that looks intresting.
Thanks'
John
02-21-2005, 08:25 PM
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John,
Easiest brake upgrade is to swap the front calipers with Wilwood calipers. LG sells a calipers, hose, pad and fluid kit for around $1200. The Wilwoods make it really easy to change the pads out, and you can use thicker pads as well. Wilwood has two calipers that look like the kind LG sells, if LG sells the coated calipers, then it's a pretty decent deal. LG covers their brake hoses with a clear hose which makes the hose easier to clean. This kit will allow you to run the stock rotor. The stock rotor is already plenty good, and very affordable. With this kit, your recurring costs may actually go down if you use the thicker pads.
Avoid SSBC brakes. Some of the decent calipers IMO are Wilwood, Alcon, AP and StopTech. I do not think Brembo and SSBC are any better than the stock calipers, and may be worse. David Farmer is/was a StopForce dealer.
StopForce sells adapted Porsche rotors with an aluminum hat. The Porsche rotors have cast vs drilled holes, so stress risers are reduced, but I still prefer an undrilled and unslotted rotor. The StopTech rotor is the same size as stock.
I used to know of a vendor that could make a kit like the LG kit, but with custom 2-piece rotors for ~$2,000 and caliper relocation brackets. This option was attractive to me because I'd like to try smaller diameter, thicker, lighter and cheaper rotors. I'm still looking for it...
Doug Rippie Motorsports makes a brake cooling duct, and a few other vendors sell it. You'll need hoses and a Phoenix spindle duct to mount the hoses all the way to the caliper. You can run a second hose with a "Mobil 1" duct in the side rubber dams with hose running beneath the car, next to the DRM duct and into the caliper.
For brake water cooling, check out:
www.seinesystems.com
Polydyne can coat your brakes for you.
Here are some threads worth reading:
http://www.zo6vette.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65595
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/showthread.php?t=935994
ZMI and Red Devil both make titanium rotors, and Red Devil makes matching calipers.
Eugene
Easiest brake upgrade is to swap the front calipers with Wilwood calipers. LG sells a calipers, hose, pad and fluid kit for around $1200. The Wilwoods make it really easy to change the pads out, and you can use thicker pads as well. Wilwood has two calipers that look like the kind LG sells, if LG sells the coated calipers, then it's a pretty decent deal. LG covers their brake hoses with a clear hose which makes the hose easier to clean. This kit will allow you to run the stock rotor. The stock rotor is already plenty good, and very affordable. With this kit, your recurring costs may actually go down if you use the thicker pads.
Avoid SSBC brakes. Some of the decent calipers IMO are Wilwood, Alcon, AP and StopTech. I do not think Brembo and SSBC are any better than the stock calipers, and may be worse. David Farmer is/was a StopForce dealer.
StopForce sells adapted Porsche rotors with an aluminum hat. The Porsche rotors have cast vs drilled holes, so stress risers are reduced, but I still prefer an undrilled and unslotted rotor. The StopTech rotor is the same size as stock.
I used to know of a vendor that could make a kit like the LG kit, but with custom 2-piece rotors for ~$2,000 and caliper relocation brackets. This option was attractive to me because I'd like to try smaller diameter, thicker, lighter and cheaper rotors. I'm still looking for it...
Doug Rippie Motorsports makes a brake cooling duct, and a few other vendors sell it. You'll need hoses and a Phoenix spindle duct to mount the hoses all the way to the caliper. You can run a second hose with a "Mobil 1" duct in the side rubber dams with hose running beneath the car, next to the DRM duct and into the caliper.
For brake water cooling, check out:
www.seinesystems.com
Polydyne can coat your brakes for you.
Here are some threads worth reading:
http://www.zo6vette.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65595
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/showthread.php?t=935994
ZMI and Red Devil both make titanium rotors, and Red Devil makes matching calipers.
Eugene
02-23-2005, 09:38 PM
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Sometimes big brakes are over kill. They're overkill on the street, and they're over kill for most autocrossers. My plan is to install 12.2" 2-piece rotors in front....that's 0.6" smaller than stock. I'm doing this to drop weight out of the rotors, which will reduce unsprung weight, but since they're smaller, they'll have a smaller effect as rotational weight. The smaller rotors can be obtained for ~$50 each. It'll be easier to run a greater selection of (lighter) 17" wheels, and it's unlikely that a spacer will be needed either. As long as the pad surface area remains the same, the braking power should remain the same. Over extremely use, the rotors will heat up faster than bigger rotors, but I don't believe that'll be a problem, especially with appropriate ducting.
You want to go bigger, and that means the opposite. You will get more unsprung weight, more rotational weight, and pay ~$220 per replacement rotor. You will also probably have to run a spacer or install 18" wheels. On the plus side, the rotors won't heat up as quickly, or they'll have a higher bling factor.
Here's the company that I'm planning on going to for my custom work: www.precisionbrakescompany.com <-- this doesn't directly compete with vendors here since no one currently offers the brakes I want, and AFAIK, no one readily does the custom work to create what I want, where this company primarily does custom work.
You want to go bigger, and that means the opposite. You will get more unsprung weight, more rotational weight, and pay ~$220 per replacement rotor. You will also probably have to run a spacer or install 18" wheels. On the plus side, the rotors won't heat up as quickly, or they'll have a higher bling factor.
Here's the company that I'm planning on going to for my custom work: www.precisionbrakescompany.com <-- this doesn't directly compete with vendors here since no one currently offers the brakes I want, and AFAIK, no one readily does the custom work to create what I want, where this company primarily does custom work.
02-28-2005, 10:52 PM
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thanks for the info- I am planning on a spring project and upgrade the fronts to the Wilwood big brakes... After researching this topic, i feel this upgrade along with cooling ducts, stainless steel brakes lines and D.O.T. 4 brake fuild is the way to go...
Does anyone know where to get a Wilwood Big Brake front system at a better price than L.G. @ $1400 for the set...
Does anyone know where to get a Wilwood Big Brake front system at a better price than L.G. @ $1400 for the set...