Jimmy P

iTrader: (177)

Out of now where, my car feels uncontrolable on turns if I punch it. I think it might be the worn tires in the rear but arnet sure. I have about 1000 miles on my Nittos on a 275 40 tire on my SS, and they are almost bald. Thecorners have some thread left, but the centers are completely flat. I didn't notice that they were this worn..I could usualy floor the gass pedal on a turn, and have full controll with some nice steering..Usualy scares the hell out of my passengers, but I can do it prety well. Lately, it feels like I have no controll at all. I was driving a lone, floored it on a turn, and almost ended up in the other lane. I steered to the other side, then the cars body bounced towards that side and sent me unctollably towards that side, then I quickly steered back to the other side, and the cars body bounced towards that side. Kinda feels like the car just bounces because of the springs. It felt like I had no controll whatsover. I was just messing around on a empty road, so please dont say "you should be driving safe so you dont hurt anyone around you" since no one was there but me, the empty roads, and fields. It scared the hell out of me that I didn't have any controll of it, and couldn't believe it happened. I drove very cautiously the rest of the trip. Then I wanted to try it again the next day..I tryed it, but didn't fully floor it on the turn, and almost same thing happened, but was avoided because I didn't fully punch it. Its weird. It feels like the rear end just swings, or like the frame is bending. Its not a good feeling. The car has SLP subframes. I am actually worried that the frame is damaged. I recently found out that the previous owner has been in 2 accidents in this car so..If I look under the car, would I be able to tell if any frame work has been done? I hope its just the worn out nittos, but I dont think thats it. My front tires were worn as well. The previous owner had two different brands of tires on the front, one worn a little more than the other, but I dont think that would do it because those tires had been there the entire time I had the car. I bought two new front tires just incase though. What do you guys think? I know you can't say much without actually looking at the car, but any tips on what I should start looking at? Thanks

Oh yea, from the first day that I bought the car, whenever I jack the car up, it goes up fine, but after it reiches a certain part, it makes this sound, like something came loose, or something snapped off. It does this sound every time. Any thoughts? It always comes from the back, towards the same spot. Cant narrow it down though.

mitchntx

iTrader: (14)

The why are you asking this question, Mario?

Let me guess ...

You stabbed the gas, the rear swung out ... and you lifted, got out of the gas ... Then the tail wagging began ...

Rule number one ... don't lift. It unloads weight to an already tractionless rear end. Feather the throttle, but never lift.

Your tires are a contributor to the initiating event, however when the tail swung wide, the tires rolled under, gripped and pitched the car the other way. Then it swug driver's right, the tires rolled, gripped and pitched ... back and forth till you had scrubbed off enough momentum to regain control.

Check the rear spring(s) while jacking to see if that is the noise you hear ...

Jimmy P

iTrader: (177)

thanks for the reply..Well what I ment is that I could do it prety well, until recently.

jyeager

The springs will pop as you raise/lower. It's normal.

A sudden loss of control like this means you need to check all of the rear suspension for breakage or loosening. Go over it in detail. I would also consider the possibility that one of your shocks has given up the ghost.

JasonWW

iTrader: (2)

The proper technique (if I may be so bold) is to gradually apply more throttle through the turn so that the rear will slide out. Don't suddenly lift the throttle and make sure you do not over correct the steering. You want to turn into the slide, but not too much. If you correct too much and lift the throttle, the rear tires grab and you go shooting off in that direction.

You sound like you have too much air in the rear tires as well.

As far as the sound, maybe you could put it on a drive on rack and then get under there and bounce the suspension. Are you jacking from the frame or the rear axle?

I've got a 2 MB video that might show what you are describing. Send me an e-mail to jasonw_ward2@hotmail.com
and I'll send it to you.

trackbird

iTrader: (4)

That's the normal sequence of events. The "wagging" is inexperience or driver error. The fact that it's happening now and didn't before is most likely tire related. That's assuming that nothing else has been changed/broken on the car (it's probably just the tires).

jyeager

You guys are focusing on the loss of traction, but I'm focusing on the fact that he's experienced with this maneuver and it just recently changed dramatically enough for him to post here. I also took the statement 'bouncing around' to mean wheel hop.
That's why I focused on a shock issue (or a broken torque arm).
So while you may all be right that he's just driving it wrong, let's not rule out that something is wrong with the suspension.

trackbird

iTrader: (4)

We're not ruling it out. But it appears that he got sideways, lifted, the back tires found some traction, which "snaps" the car back into a straight line, however there is so much momentum that it will go beyond straight and now have the tail pointing the other direction, a quick counter steer will again find rear traction and the cycle repeats. I did this many years ago in a 3rd gen (which I parked backwards into a hill side, though very gently. Just a small scratch on the bumper) and I "looped" an Escort EXP the same way (and it's front wheel drive), on about the 5th cycle, I ran out of steering travel to catch it and it went around in a giant cloud of smoke. Both of these events where when I was much younger and far more "stuipid" (I managed to stay alive in spite of my best intentions though) and less experienced. The description of the events seems to be exactly what I have experienced in multiple cars (with both front and rear wheel drive) due to "ham fisted" driving and not knowing the proper technique to "save" it at the time. It's not natural to add throttle, but you must in order to catch it and to "adjust" the amount of rear tire grip to prevent the "catch" that will cause the car to "snap" the opposite direction. I'm not saying the suspension couldn't have a problem, but I still suspect the tires have worn and the reduced traction (combined with poor technique) is the root of the problem.

I've been wrong before.

Diolar Magnum

if your tires are bald in the center they are over inflated.

jyeager

JimmyP, can you weigh in and add any clarification?

jRaskell

iTrader: (1)

There's one thing that appears to be very obvious, above everything else. He needs new tires. You need the tires anyways, so slap some new tires on (And it sounds as if you should slap new tires on all 4 corners, preferably all the same brand), and if the problem hasn't gone away, THEN look into suspension. Eliminate the problem you know exists right now. Trying to diagnose any other problems with that one still looming in the background will be tough, and there may not even be any other problems to diagnose.

JasonWW

iTrader: (2)

Can anyone host a 2MB video? I think it shows what jimmy is talking about, if it is accurate, we can all see what he is talking about. If not, oh well.

Jimmy P

iTrader: (177)

I appreciate all the input. I have had this car for a while, and I have done this atleast a hundread times, and not once was it uncontrollable until recently. I changed the front tires. The back nittos are bald in the center so that might be it.. I ran them at 24 psi from the first day I had them put on, so I dont think they are that way from being overinflated. I will be looking at the rear suspension, see if anything seems suspicous. Now that I think about this, this started happening after my 18 year old brother borrowed the car for a couple of hours. I dont doubt that he was messing around with it, but I dont think he could of done anything to brake someting.

Oh yea, if I remember correctly, that clunking sound only happens when I jack up the rear from the subframe connectors. The car has been jacked up a couple of times from the rear axle, but I dont think I noticed that sound then.

240M3SRT

Oddly, i will completely agree with you. I have roadraced and drifted a BMW M3 and a 240SX. Both cars on their stock suspension and bald tires at least felt "predictable". When i tried to countersteer around corners my 99 Formula did the same "swinging back in the other lane" thing as if i had over compensated, when i know i had not.

I dont go around corners fast in this car anymore.

soslo

iTrader: (12)

Send it to me and I will...

aaronmurray_at_msn.com

JasonWW

iTrader: (2)

Sent you 2 of them.

Another thing I wanted to mention is that a lot of folks have told me that replacing their LCA's and PHR with rod ended pieces got rid of all the slop in the rear. Slides are now very controllable and it doesn't flop around anymore. I can't speak from experience, as I still have my stock LCA's, but it does make sense that getting rid of those big rubber bushings would fix the problem and make the car more controllable.

soslo

iTrader: (12)

Vids have been posted...

Vid 1

Vid 2

98boxer

iTrader: (7)

I have had the samething happen to me when I first bought my car. It came with rear tires that were almost bald but not quit their and they were drag radials in the rear only. First few days I could take turns fast. Accelerated baddass and smoked the rears so dam easy. After a week of driving one night I make a left turn on another street and the car swings left then right and visa, versa. I had no idea what was the problem at the time. I thougt it was just the power these cars come with. Well, I took it to get an oil change and the shop recommended I replace all four tires so I did. And know I can take a normal turn quickly. Put those new tires on the rear. Or get another new pair for the rear, but from my experiance -same as yours- what you're describing it is the tires.


As for the squeeking when you lift the rear end from the SFC I hear the samething when I do this, so hopefully as one poster said it is normal and it is the rear springs.

JasonWW

iTrader: (2)

Whoa! Got your own domain name, huh? That's bad ***.

Thanks

soslo

iTrader: (12)

I like it. Glad I could help.