Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

It's passed. I said my peace.

As for the apologies, I'm glad you do, but you always do it in private not public. And I don't answer them because there is no point. I'd be better if you just didn't do things you feel you need to apologize for. MHO.

I haven't chased you off any of those sites, I don't have the power to do so (or frankly the desire). It's too bad if you feel like I ran you off, not my intention at all.

mitchntx

iTrader: (14)

Your believing that doesn't surprise me.

Cal

iTrader: (1)

It is hard to see two racers that I respect at odds with each other.

Back on topic:
IMO SFC's are not going to make your car faster or change the way the suspension works until you start using springs that are in the 800 to 1000 lb/inch range. And that is way beyond the stiffness considered in this thread. What they will do is keep your rear quarter panels from getting dimpled, but even that is only going to happen if you run Koni's and really twist the car's tail, as in competitive driving. They also make the car heavier and reduce ground clearance. I think a roll cage is a better way to stiffen the car; no loss of ground clearance, plus added safety in a roll over.

As for the shock tower brace (again IMO) those things are pretty worthless in a 4th gen, no mater how you use the car. If you take a careful look at the front suspension design, you can easily see that the lateral loads are transmitted through the front LCA's into the K-member.

As I said earlier in this thread, shocks are the one best improvement to fbody handling you can make, closely followed by race rubber (competition tires.) And Koni makes the best shocks for handling.

joblo1978

iTrader: (14)

I don't see why everyone is trying to steer you into some Autox setup or some ****. Doesn't it say you want to have some drag racing and everyday fun? Dude, mods in sig and my car is extremely fun. I don't need an LG coil-over setup, matched Konis and 555RII's on all 4's to have fun. My car will easily handle any turn on the road I may run into at 20+ posted speed limit and still be comfortable for long trips. I don't know as much as alot of guys here do but don't believe everything you hear. Someone could be steering you in a direction you don't want to go. For 2k, you could EASILY have the same setup as me and I'm sure it would be plently for what you want to do with it. I would recommend coilovers as they are adjustable. I think you will have a hard time getting the drop you want with ordinary springs.

360 coilovers
250 shocks
150 relocation brackets
150 APHB

With my setup, I came out of the state of Tennesse through the Appalachian mountains going downhill at 80+ mph in a 55. Car wasn't huffing at all. My next upgrade would probably need to be seats to hold me in the car as the stock ones don't do so well anymore.

IF you want to feel a big difference in handling, get springs or coilovers, get shocks also just because it's so much easier to install them while your doing springs. The stockers really are pieces of ****. Get an APHB to recenter the rear and LCA relocation brackets to give back some of that traction lowering takes from you. Since your going to have have the LCA's unbolted anyway at that point, install new ones. If you go this route with a 2k budget, you'll still be waaaaay under. I would also recommend an aftermarket Torque Arm for even more improved traction. With a WS6, I really don't think sway bars would give you that much of a gain. Dunno much about sways I'll admit. With that setup you will have a kick-*** corner carver no matter what you get and a car you can take to the strip also.

trackbird

iTrader: (4)

He said:


It looks like he wants to build a car that handles well and he might wander to the drag strip once in a great while. That's why he is getting the advice he is getting.


We're not talking about being able to run a few mph over the speed limit, we're discussing building a car that is capable of running an autocross, a road course, or (capable of, but I don't suggest it) of running very far over the speed limit if you were to desire to do so (please obey all traffic laws and do not drive like an assclown on public roads). This makes for a car that's very fun to drive because it responds as you ask it to. A stock car can run that far over the speed limit on those same roads....so why upgrade at all? I'm glad that you are happy with your setup, but I think that some of the cars here and many that are in this thread would open your eyes. Great handling is what you make it and if yours is the "best car you've ever driven", I'm sure you'll think it's the best there is. If you were to get into a few of these other cars, you might be shocked at how much your car doesn't do (not saying it's a bad setup, just that there is always someone who has gone to the next level). My car is a daily driver, so don't think we are giving advice for a race only car. All of this is 100% driveable everyday (I even drive mine in the winter). My hunch is that you mostly drag race. This was my first clue:

You completely missed the "occasional" drag use as mentioned in the original post. You seem to emphasize drag racing more than handling, and that's absolutely fine. But you sound irritated that he's being steered towards an "autocross setup or some ****". He's getting the information he asked for (as far as I can tell). I'm sorry that it doesn't fit your grand plan.

"Mostly canyon carving" > "Occasional drag strip use"

You can drag race a road race car, but you really can't road race a drag race car. So, for street/dual purpose use, a car that handles will only slow you down slightly at the drag strip, but a car set for drag racing will slow you down everywhere there is a corner.

Anyway....enough about that.

joblo1978

iTrader: (14)

Yo knucklehead! I understand that he wants a car for occassional drag racing. I posted it in my thread. :wtf:? Your post is totally useless! You even said it yourself, your discussing a setup for possible autox and I'm saying that he never said he wanted that or even mentioned autox in his first thread. I don't care about your setup or anyone elses that may be better than mine and what you do with it. If that's what you or they want then fine, I'm happy with mine and have no desire to experience your "awesome setup". I guess if you can't dazzle 'em with brilliance baffle 'em with bullshit right?

To the original poster, you sound a like a guy who wants and is going after the same setup that I was going after (fun street car and occasional drag car) and that's what I got and couldn't be happier. Just trying to save you some bread and keep you from going overboard. Talking to autox guys about a fun daily driver street setup, well.... they may know what they're talking about, but may recommend more than you want. That's all I'm saying.

pimpmaro

This is about to get entertaining...

trackbird

iTrader: (4)

It has apparently gotten you this far.

indoes

In my opinion shocks springs made a night and day difference (1st suspension mod). I got my koni's sa through Strano. Also try poly endlinks that was another major difference, it allows you feel the limits of the car more. In a few weeks im going to install G2 LCA's. Ill chime in then.

mitchntx

iTrader: (14)

"You don't tug on Superman's cape
You don't spit into the wind
You don't pull the mask off the ole Lone Ranger
And you don't mess around with .... trackbird"

Jim Croce

joblo1978

iTrader: (14)

Another useless reply. What are you talking about? My smart assed statement was in reference to your reply that stated what I said in the previous one.

Tech forums are about helping people find what they want and need right? Especially when it comes to performance modifications. I'm tired of people (possibly sponsors and other people looking to sell ****) telling someone about some **** that they don't need. Why do people do that?

Would you believe a mechanic if he told you that he needed to charge you 250 dollars to take an exhaust sample or change your blinker fluid? Stop telling the dude he needs an autox setup then if he doesn't plan to autox then. Damn, how hard is that? He wanted to know what his first mod should be.

joblo1978

iTrader: (14)

WTF is this?

TOO Z MAXX

Dude you have to chill out a bit. He said he wants a car that is good for canyon carving, which means a good handling car. Last time I checked most auto x cars are set up for good handling, thats why people are suggesting set ups like that.
Now for my 2 cents. If you have 1LE springs keep them, that is a good start. Just get some good shocks to match, I would recomend Koni SA's. I had them on my 3rd gen Camaro and it out handles my SS by a long ways. Plus they have a lifetime warranty. Next would adjustable panhard bar with rod ends If you still want more go with the Strano sway bars. Dont waste your money on a shock tower brace. They do nothing for handling but they do look pretty under the hood. This will be an all around good car for handling and some drag use. If you still want even more handling, look into some good sticky tires.

Brian

mitchntx

iTrader: (14)

Allow me to translate ... Don't **** with da man!

I suggest you go to www.cornercarvers.com and do a search on the word "***-clown".

trackbird

iTrader: (4)

For someone who doesn't understand what I'm talking about, you sure talk a lot. I'm going to suggest that you do some more reading, learn a little about sway bars and such and then come see me. It's hard to take advice from someone who already admitted that they don't really understand sway bars.

Sway bars are one of the more basic components of our suspension. There is very little black magic involved with them. If you understand anything about suspension, I'd think sway bars would be it. They are not terribly complicated. So, I begin to question what else you don't know.....


I believe that everyone here has been trying to answer his questions. He has received lots of great information during the course of this thread, at least until you came along. If "nobody" needs this "****", then why do you find so much of it on the cars that are truly fast through the twisty bits? It can't be a fluke that most everyone who has set up a car for performance handling have decided on the same parts.

The problem with a forum environment is that anyone can drop into a thread, regardless of their level of knowledge or their credentials, and start spouting off information.

Setting up a car is a series of tradeoffs. You need to determine your goals, look at your budget and decide if a soft ride is more or less important than your level of grip through the corners. Once all of the parts have been suggested, the reasons for using them explained and the prices tabulated, you have to make a decision based on what you've learned. This would be a boring world if we all ran your exact setup. It wouldn't take long for everyone else to go out of business and we'd be stuck with very few choices. He doesn't have to follow any advice he gets in this thread, or, he can choose to follow parts of it. He can buy "the whole package" or "none of it" or something in between. That's the beauty of our country, you can do whatever the hell you want to do (up to a point).


I hardly equate someone suggesting parts that will work very well for his goals to a mechanic who wants to change my blinker fluid. That's got to be a stretch, even for you. You are quickly crossing from potentially uninformed to just plain irrational.

I don't think anyone told him he needed an autocross setup. I don't think anyone here has been telling him to autocross. If he were actually going to autocross, he'd have likely been told to drive the car stock and learn how it handles. Once he knows what he doesn't like, we'd help him fix it. Throwing a bunch of mods at a car will usually just move you into a class where you'll get your butt kicked constantly. That often runs new members out of the sport. Nobody likes to be so uncompetitive that it's "not worth showing up". So, he's not getting advice for an autocross car, at least not advice given to someone who is new to autocrossing.

At this point, I'm going to apologize to both the original poster and the moderators for thoroughly hijacking this thread. If you wish to continue down this path, you are free to do so, but I'm going to allow this thread to return to the discussion at hand. I'm also quite certain that Too Z Maxx (sorry Brian) is not interested in letting this continue, and thus, waste valuable bandwidth in his forum.

Have a good day.

jlaw

pimpmaro

Mitch... Can I buy you a beer???

trackbird

iTrader: (4)

Ok guys. Before we thoroughly derail this thread and get it locked, lets get this back on topic.

As was stated, 1LE springs with Koni SA's would be an excellent place to start (as long as you are not worried about lowering the car).

absolut_speed

iTrader: (1)

At risk of derailing, I have to say it's very entertaining to watch one idiot set himself up for several others to make an even bigger idiot out of himself. It's even funnier when said dumbass has no idea he's setting himself up or that he started from a baseline of moron.

TOO Z MAXX

OK guys lets get back on topic.