View Poll Results: What should my 1st suspension mod be?
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First Suspension Mod Poll
06-29-2006, 06:47 PM
#122
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Anyone here got the cojones to back up their BMR bashing? 
SFC's are a must in a unibody car with a floorpan in between. I don't care what shocks or springs you use. The structural rigidity and overall reduction of flex is felt throughout the car and it DOES affect how the car launches off the line and handle road imperfections. A more robust SFC will make a significant difference... period. I'll bet a rollcage will offer the same (and more) of the same principal effect.
Two of my most notable mods have been the BMR STB & APHR. Cornering was much improved on an all stock suspension. In conjunction with the chassis mod (SFC's) it was very notable.
I installed BMR lower control arms w/relocation brackets once I lowered the car and that had a minimal effect. I had no wheel hop prior to, so it wasn't much of a gain. Cornering felt a bit better and off the line traction remained the same after lowering the car with the control arm in the lowest position. I have poly/poly on the Z and my wife has poly/rubber and it's a bit smoother on the road.
Eibach Pro and Bilsteins... a nice drop but a bit soft in the rear. Great looks with improved handling, cornering and minimized brake dive. Just bought jounce spacers to install and might add the heater hose mod to boost it a bit in the rear to prevent the 315's from rubbing the outer wheel well on major dips (rear 17 x 10" w/49mm wheel offset
)
Rented a Crossfire for a few days and once back in the Z it felt as smooth as a Caddy with handling... the Crossfire rides HARD with 19's!
I do like the Eibach Pro/Bilstein combo.
I want sway bars and a good torque arm to finish up my mods on the suspension. Just trying to figure out the mm aspect of the bars and
on-tranny vs. off-tranny mounting of the torque arm to complete the project.
My advice, plan your mods based on what you ultimately want... street, drag or a combo. Do your research and looks for good deals. Read what others have done and take it from there. Good luck
SFC's are a must in a unibody car with a floorpan in between. I don't care what shocks or springs you use. The structural rigidity and overall reduction of flex is felt throughout the car and it DOES affect how the car launches off the line and handle road imperfections. A more robust SFC will make a significant difference... period. I'll bet a rollcage will offer the same (and more) of the same principal effect.
Two of my most notable mods have been the BMR STB & APHR. Cornering was much improved on an all stock suspension. In conjunction with the chassis mod (SFC's) it was very notable.
I installed BMR lower control arms w/relocation brackets once I lowered the car and that had a minimal effect. I had no wheel hop prior to, so it wasn't much of a gain. Cornering felt a bit better and off the line traction remained the same after lowering the car with the control arm in the lowest position. I have poly/poly on the Z and my wife has poly/rubber and it's a bit smoother on the road.
Eibach Pro and Bilsteins... a nice drop but a bit soft in the rear. Great looks with improved handling, cornering and minimized brake dive. Just bought jounce spacers to install and might add the heater hose mod to boost it a bit in the rear to prevent the 315's from rubbing the outer wheel well on major dips (rear 17 x 10" w/49mm wheel offset
) Rented a Crossfire for a few days and once back in the Z it felt as smooth as a Caddy with handling... the Crossfire rides HARD with 19's!
I do like the Eibach Pro/Bilstein combo.
I want sway bars and a good torque arm to finish up my mods on the suspension. Just trying to figure out the mm aspect of the bars and
on-tranny vs. off-tranny mounting of the torque arm to complete the project.
My advice, plan your mods based on what you ultimately want... street, drag or a combo. Do your research and looks for good deals. Read what others have done and take it from there. Good luck
06-29-2006, 08:53 PM
#125
Originally Posted by DRGnFLYZ28
Anyone here got the cojones to back up their BMR bashing?
The weld broke on a PHB. On the old LS1.com site, there were dozens on folks who found similar indications.
I also found cases on ImpalaSS boards where similar problems were found on their LCAs.
The rod ends BMR supplied were absolutle junk, rattling like a baby's toy right out of the box.
Those that have been around for a while will remember. You newbs were still on Schwinns ...
Originally Posted by DRGnFLYZ28
Two of my most notable mods have been the BMR STB & APHR. Cornering was much improved on an all stock suspension. In conjunction with the chassis mod (SFC's) it was very notable.
An STB, at best, is a towel rack and an APHR does nothing to alter stock geometry in the rear on
Originally Posted by DRGnFLYZ28
an all stock suspension.
The seat-o-meter is unquantifiable, unverifiable and at best very subjective.
Originally Posted by DRGnFLYZ28
SFC's are a must in a unibody car with a floorpan in between. I don't care what shocks or springs you use. The structural rigidity and overall reduction of flex is felt throughout the car and it DOES affect how the car launches off the line and handle road imperfections. A more robust SFC will make a significant difference... period. I'll bet a rollcage will offer the same (and more) of the same principal effect.
If a car flexed and twisted as much as you elude, the windshield would crack, doors wouldn't shut and T-Tops would be leaking and/or popping out
Originally Posted by DRGnFLYZ28
My advice,
Do your research
Read what others have done and take it from there. Good luck
Do your research
Read what others have done and take it from there. Good luck
Last edited by mitchntx; 06-29-2006 at 09:05 PM.
06-29-2006, 10:59 PM
#126
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You sir ... are a dumbass.
NOTE: mitchntx is a total arrogant *******!!!!
Admin, please leave my reply in here...
You sir don't know me not nor are you the guru-be-all-pinnacle of F-body creation. This is my 5th F-body and I do have a bit of experience with the this car build.
--An STB, at best, is a towel rack and an APHR does nothing to alter stock geometry in the rear on
So, you are dictating to me the handling difference in how my car drives with 17x10" 49mm wheels up front between STB vs. sans STB?? Interesting
--The seat-o-meter is unquantifiable, unverifiable and at best very subjective.
Bullsh!t! You drive your F-body everyday on the street over multiple types of roads with unknown variables and you will be able to quantify the differences with upgraded suspension. Don't BS the internet crowd. R&D is not done to appease your need to debate nor inflate your ego on steadfast purchases.
--If a car flexed and twisted as much as you elude, the windshield would crack, doors wouldn't shut and T-Tops would be leaking and/or popping out
Damn dude, that is MOST ignorant! I never said the car was made of rubber bands... Listen, just because you are a popular guy on the LS1tech forum doesn't mean you won't get opposing opinions... face it. The F-body platform is based on a cheap unibody structure with minimal structural integrity. You know that. Look at the claims of rear fender dents/indentations due to rear shock housing integrity and hard launches. Panel gaps, t-top leaks and OH, need I say you x-crosser bashings of the Edelbrock STB with it triangular connection cracking windshields due to it's cowl connection. The structure is semi-weak... period. I noted a significant increase in structural integrity with MAC SFC's on my 99 Z28 but even more with my 02 and BMR SFC's.
You can influence the internet crowd all you want and look good to whom ever but the facts remain steadfast. Regardless of your experience. I rebute your opinions because it appears that your particular experiences seem to be the end-all-be-all to all that is true about the f-body.
As for BMR, I haven't had a problem with their products and do review comments and experiences of others before making a purchase. Maybe lucky... Is BMR that bad?
--The smartest comment you've made. Maybe you should take your own advice, though
This is how I've made all of my purchases.
I've read lots of your posts, it's a shame to see your pride prod you to create a post which disregards others opinions that differ from yours.
NOTE: mitchntx is a total arrogant *******!!!!
Admin, please leave my reply in here...
You sir don't know me not nor are you the guru-be-all-pinnacle of F-body creation. This is my 5th F-body and I do have a bit of experience with the this car build.
--An STB, at best, is a towel rack and an APHR does nothing to alter stock geometry in the rear on
So, you are dictating to me the handling difference in how my car drives with 17x10" 49mm wheels up front between STB vs. sans STB?? Interesting
--The seat-o-meter is unquantifiable, unverifiable and at best very subjective.
Bullsh!t! You drive your F-body everyday on the street over multiple types of roads with unknown variables and you will be able to quantify the differences with upgraded suspension. Don't BS the internet crowd. R&D is not done to appease your need to debate nor inflate your ego on steadfast purchases.
--If a car flexed and twisted as much as you elude, the windshield would crack, doors wouldn't shut and T-Tops would be leaking and/or popping out
Damn dude, that is MOST ignorant! I never said the car was made of rubber bands... Listen, just because you are a popular guy on the LS1tech forum doesn't mean you won't get opposing opinions... face it. The F-body platform is based on a cheap unibody structure with minimal structural integrity. You know that. Look at the claims of rear fender dents/indentations due to rear shock housing integrity and hard launches. Panel gaps, t-top leaks and OH, need I say you x-crosser bashings of the Edelbrock STB with it triangular connection cracking windshields due to it's cowl connection. The structure is semi-weak... period. I noted a significant increase in structural integrity with MAC SFC's on my 99 Z28 but even more with my 02 and BMR SFC's.
You can influence the internet crowd all you want and look good to whom ever but the facts remain steadfast. Regardless of your experience. I rebute your opinions because it appears that your particular experiences seem to be the end-all-be-all to all that is true about the f-body.
As for BMR, I haven't had a problem with their products and do review comments and experiences of others before making a purchase. Maybe lucky... Is BMR that bad?
--The smartest comment you've made. Maybe you should take your own advice, though
This is how I've made all of my purchases.
I've read lots of your posts, it's a shame to see your pride prod you to create a post which disregards others opinions that differ from yours.
06-30-2006, 06:46 AM
#127
Me? arrogant? .... LOL
You've owned 5 F-Body's? Wow! I have 4 in my shop right now. I've recently sold 2 and halped a friend build yet another So, if quantity makes one smart, I guess that makes me smarter than you.
I could care less about influencing opinion ... especially yours. But YOUR arrogance of "no one has the cojones" tells me you didn't do too much research or you would have most certainly come across the documented and substantiated problems many have encountered with BMR product.
Maybe they've changed their process, parts supplier and QC inspection process to be ISO9000 approved. It just took one time for me to look elsewhere. I couldn't take the risk.
I am so glad you are happy with the products you have researched and bought. I see lots of folks who think McDonalds is a great place to eat, too.
I don't take issue with SFCs making the chassis somewhat stiffer. I take issue with it being felt on a street driven car. And butt welding 2 sections of tube or pipe on either end connecting loads doesn't create a substantial increase in rigidity. Simple physics.
The ripples you describe in ther rear quarter are there. I had them on one of my street cars equipped with <gasp> BMR boxed SFCs. They occur either directly above or behind the rear fender well. This is all well behind the chassis LCA mount and ther rearward SFC attachment point.
My theory (just a theory as I have no actual data to base it on, just my "seat-o-meter") is that it was from htting the rear bump stops when I had those POS Eibach springs on the car.
The 120 mph transition off the banking at Texas World Speedway onto the flat entering T1 would bottom out the car each and every lap. The rear was cantilevered over the fulcrum point (shocks,springs, bump stops) and had all the car's mass hanging out there along with 100lbs of fuel.
Put a couple hundred pounds of stereo gear in the rear well, a full tank of gas, poor shocks and soft springs and hit a rail road crossing just right, I can see it happeneing to a regular old street car.
350 horses ain't gonna do it on torque alone. The pinion shaft will snap in a 10 bolt way before the body wrinkles.
My pride didn't prod me to make that post. The question was asked way before you discovered this thread about a first purchase. A newb looking to spend smart needs real data, not unsubstantiated opinion.
Bring some real world data otherwise drive on through. The ONLY way to test OBJECTIVELY is to drive The SAME car, the SAME way, on the SAME surface under the SAME conditions both with AND without the part being evaluated.
Just driving around on the street trying to pick up chicks is not an evaluative process.
I appreciate you putting me in my place, though.
Have a nice day.
And if you use the [ quote ] and [ /quote ] w/o the spaces you make it easier to see what I wrote and what you wrote. Just impressing the internet crowd.
You've owned 5 F-Body's? Wow! I have 4 in my shop right now. I've recently sold 2 and halped a friend build yet another So, if quantity makes one smart, I guess that makes me smarter than you.
I could care less about influencing opinion ... especially yours. But YOUR arrogance of "no one has the cojones" tells me you didn't do too much research or you would have most certainly come across the documented and substantiated problems many have encountered with BMR product.
Maybe they've changed their process, parts supplier and QC inspection process to be ISO9000 approved. It just took one time for me to look elsewhere. I couldn't take the risk.
I am so glad you are happy with the products you have researched and bought. I see lots of folks who think McDonalds is a great place to eat, too.
I don't take issue with SFCs making the chassis somewhat stiffer. I take issue with it being felt on a street driven car. And butt welding 2 sections of tube or pipe on either end connecting loads doesn't create a substantial increase in rigidity. Simple physics.
The ripples you describe in ther rear quarter are there. I had them on one of my street cars equipped with <gasp> BMR boxed SFCs. They occur either directly above or behind the rear fender well. This is all well behind the chassis LCA mount and ther rearward SFC attachment point.
My theory (just a theory as I have no actual data to base it on, just my "seat-o-meter") is that it was from htting the rear bump stops when I had those POS Eibach springs on the car.
The 120 mph transition off the banking at Texas World Speedway onto the flat entering T1 would bottom out the car each and every lap. The rear was cantilevered over the fulcrum point (shocks,springs, bump stops) and had all the car's mass hanging out there along with 100lbs of fuel.
Put a couple hundred pounds of stereo gear in the rear well, a full tank of gas, poor shocks and soft springs and hit a rail road crossing just right, I can see it happeneing to a regular old street car.
350 horses ain't gonna do it on torque alone. The pinion shaft will snap in a 10 bolt way before the body wrinkles.
My pride didn't prod me to make that post. The question was asked way before you discovered this thread about a first purchase. A newb looking to spend smart needs real data, not unsubstantiated opinion.
Bring some real world data otherwise drive on through. The ONLY way to test OBJECTIVELY is to drive The SAME car, the SAME way, on the SAME surface under the SAME conditions both with AND without the part being evaluated.
Just driving around on the street trying to pick up chicks is not an evaluative process.
I appreciate you putting me in my place, though.
Have a nice day.
And if you use the [ quote ] and [ /quote ] w/o the spaces you make it easier to see what I wrote and what you wrote. Just impressing the internet crowd.
06-30-2006, 05:27 PM
#128
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"Putting you in your place" was easy.
Striking a nerve was fun!
McDonalds sucks
[ quote ] and [ /quote ] lol
Newb... hardly Join dates are irrelevant
Driving on through, no, I'm parked here as with many other forums, thanks.
Picking up chicks...lol & how you depict yourself in the younger years
Your experiences, noted.
My experiences still to be expressed.
Thanks for the feedback
Striking a nerve was fun!
McDonalds sucks
[ quote ] and [ /quote ] lol
Newb... hardly Join dates are irrelevant
Driving on through, no, I'm parked here as with many other forums, thanks.
Picking up chicks...lol & how you depict yourself in the younger years
Your experiences, noted.
My experiences still to be expressed.
Thanks for the feedback
07-01-2006, 01:53 AM
#130
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This a very interesting topic...
My vote:
Short version: SHOCKS
Long version:
I really like my Camaro, because it is very rare here in Germany and it has a very powerful engine. The things I really hated were the stock suspension and the brakes. After a few really dangerous situations on public roads (mostly high speed maneuvers on the highway) I decided to buy a BMW Z4 as my new "Fun-Car" and to put the Camaro in my garage.
I ordered LCA's, STB, SFC's, PHB, a Bilstein Tuned Suspension Kit, 17*9,5" rims, a good set of 275/40 street tyres... and a lot more parts.
Because of my limited time and the fact, that it was VERY difficult to get the stuff here to Germany, and it needed more than a year to get all together, I started with the some modifications before others...
The first thing I did, was the STB (Really easy). The gains were very limited. I only felt an improved "turning in"... when trying to make faster steering-wheel movements. But the effect was so minimal, that I'm still not sure wether it was reality or just "wishful thinking". (Anyway... with my 42 year's I have some spinal-Disc-problems and this STB is a really practical handle, always there, when I need it... )
The second were LCA's and PHB and the wheels. That really changed something. The car felt stiffer, difficult to explain. But the whole thing still wasn't perfect. I even think, the car was more dangerous, because on really good flat and straight roads, the car was telling me "I'm rock solid", but there still was this crazy nose-diving and light rear end under heavy braking and on fast driven twisty roads... It felt like a big boat on a stormy sea...
The last thing I changed / added, were the SFC's... What did they change?
NOTHING!
Still the nose-diving... still the "big boat on stormy sea"-effect!
Recently I removed the stock DeCarbon shocks and put in the Bilstein HD's... What did they change?
EVERYTHING!
The nose-diving is significantly reduced... no more "big boat on stormy sea"!
Is it a real sports car now (in terms of handling, not power), like my BMW... No, it is not! But I think this is the setup, that the car should have had from the factory!
I didn't use the Bilstein-springs, because I've read here, that the Bilstein HD's will better work with the stock springs. To be sure, I'm testing the HD's with the stock springs first and at the end of the summer, I will swap the stock spring for the Bilstein springs, just to be sure...
I will also test the 32mm front-sway bar, I got from an ebay-auction... I hope this will reduce the body roll effect.
I vote for SHOCKS as the very first change... But do it together with matching springs... You'll find a lot of information about this here, or ask one of the experienced racers.
Holger
My vote:
Short version: SHOCKS
Long version:
I really like my Camaro, because it is very rare here in Germany and it has a very powerful engine. The things I really hated were the stock suspension and the brakes. After a few really dangerous situations on public roads (mostly high speed maneuvers on the highway) I decided to buy a BMW Z4 as my new "Fun-Car" and to put the Camaro in my garage.
I ordered LCA's, STB, SFC's, PHB, a Bilstein Tuned Suspension Kit, 17*9,5" rims, a good set of 275/40 street tyres... and a lot more parts.
Because of my limited time and the fact, that it was VERY difficult to get the stuff here to Germany, and it needed more than a year to get all together, I started with the some modifications before others...
The first thing I did, was the STB (Really easy). The gains were very limited. I only felt an improved "turning in"... when trying to make faster steering-wheel movements. But the effect was so minimal, that I'm still not sure wether it was reality or just "wishful thinking". (Anyway... with my 42 year's I have some spinal-Disc-problems and this STB is a really practical handle, always there, when I need it... )
The second were LCA's and PHB and the wheels. That really changed something. The car felt stiffer, difficult to explain. But the whole thing still wasn't perfect. I even think, the car was more dangerous, because on really good flat and straight roads, the car was telling me "I'm rock solid", but there still was this crazy nose-diving and light rear end under heavy braking and on fast driven twisty roads... It felt like a big boat on a stormy sea...
The last thing I changed / added, were the SFC's... What did they change?
NOTHING!
Still the nose-diving... still the "big boat on stormy sea"-effect!
Recently I removed the stock DeCarbon shocks and put in the Bilstein HD's... What did they change?
EVERYTHING!
The nose-diving is significantly reduced... no more "big boat on stormy sea"!
Is it a real sports car now (in terms of handling, not power), like my BMW... No, it is not! But I think this is the setup, that the car should have had from the factory!
I didn't use the Bilstein-springs, because I've read here, that the Bilstein HD's will better work with the stock springs. To be sure, I'm testing the HD's with the stock springs first and at the end of the summer, I will swap the stock spring for the Bilstein springs, just to be sure...
I will also test the 32mm front-sway bar, I got from an ebay-auction... I hope this will reduce the body roll effect.
I vote for SHOCKS as the very first change... But do it together with matching springs... You'll find a lot of information about this here, or ask one of the experienced racers.
Holger
07-02-2006, 04:14 PM
#131
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mitch and DRG...i have been working 12 hour days for the past 17 days straight out here on base working on POS f-16s and you guys made my day. Just want to let you know... i was in a really shitting mood and now i am laughing, good stuff guys
07-03-2006, 08:23 PM
#133
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Originally Posted by mitchntx
No nerve struck ... just stating the obvious.
- someone has cojones
- brought real data to the table
- pointed out flaws in your "logic"
I bet I have a few years on you, sonny.
- someone has cojones
- brought real data to the table
- pointed out flaws in your "logic"
I bet I have a few years on you, sonny.
OK, I thought this was over but now I check in a while later only to see a battle with a guy who is totally an "f-body god".
You might be surprised to know my age my friend. Don't ASSume
Now here is the question I ask you...
With multiple posts supporting BMR, obvious installers of BMR products (who happen to be happy) and a current vote poll of 104 for BMR specific LCA, APHR & STB 's are YOU stating that we all as a whole are Camaro/Firebird pimping dudes "looking for chicks" and taking them out to McDonalds for dinner? Just because we purchased BMR?
Go ahead pride guy, your reply will only denote your injured ego. Remember you insulted the sum of BMR owners and only now will you seek restitution with them. Too bad Bret won't chime in here... Your first reply to me was to call me a dumbass, so in effect age has nothing to do with maturity... SONNY
Last edited by DRGnFLYZ28; 07-03-2006 at 08:30 PM.
07-03-2006, 10:35 PM
#134
LOL ... who has a nerve struck, now ...
You asked ...
I said ...
It's not to hard to comprehend, is it? It's real data ... cold hard facts. It's based upon real world experience. It's actually very simple.
I realize that there are thousands of happy BMR campers out there.
There are thousands of happy Hyundai campers out there, too.
Does it mean that they are unhappy? No ...
Does that make Hyundai a Super Car? No ...
I think you need to loosen the tension on that ego of yours and quit taking yourself and the internet so seriously.
And, for the record, I'm no God ... you have me confused with Mr. Strano.
You asked ...
Originally Posted by DRGnFLYZ28
Anyone here got the cojones to back up their BMR bashing?
Originally Posted by mitchntx
Yes.
The weld broke on a PHB. On the old LS1.com site, there were dozens on folks who found similar indications.
I also found cases on ImpalaSS boards where similar problems were found on their LCAs.
The rod ends BMR supplied were absolutle junk, rattling like a baby's toy right out of the box.
Those that have been around for a while will remember. You newbs were still on Schwinns ...
The weld broke on a PHB. On the old LS1.com site, there were dozens on folks who found similar indications.
I also found cases on ImpalaSS boards where similar problems were found on their LCAs.
The rod ends BMR supplied were absolutle junk, rattling like a baby's toy right out of the box.
Those that have been around for a while will remember. You newbs were still on Schwinns ...
I realize that there are thousands of happy BMR campers out there.
There are thousands of happy Hyundai campers out there, too.
Does it mean that they are unhappy? No ...
Does that make Hyundai a Super Car? No ...
I think you need to loosen the tension on that ego of yours and quit taking yourself and the internet so seriously.
And, for the record, I'm no God ... you have me confused with Mr. Strano.
Last edited by mitchntx; 07-04-2006 at 10:38 AM.
07-04-2006, 12:31 PM
#136
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OK, help me understand more about the structural ridgidity of the uni-body frame and it's weaknesses/flexing.
What physics and/or formula are you using to obtain this information. As far as I have experienced (try not to disregard it 
) the increase has been pretty damn significant on my t-top equipped f-bods. My 94 had a hardtop and was pretty rigid from the factory even after 115,000 miles and multiple passes at the track. My wife's 99 T/A vert has cowl shake even with the OEM "subframe" connectors. My 99 Z28 didn't get SFC's installed until over 40k miles and by then it was needed. My 02 has them installed by 20k and even then showed a great improvement over stock on an all stock suspension and wheels.
A SOTP assesment based on experience NOT hard factual date from mitchntx... well what do you know. Looks like you found what works for you just like many have found what works for them.
Like the experience of others, or YOUR specific SOTP results.
I agree and never disgregarded your R&D. Actually it was somewhat respected 'till you made it personal.
Damn, no emoticon for putting-foot-in-mouth
I'll agree, you are no god... 
Now I'll step aside as you proceed to bash others...
One note, Nick D, sorry for the BS. I stand by my original post and experience. Good luck with your research and purchases. 
Originally Posted by mitchntx
I don't take issue with SFCs making the chassis somewhat stiffer. I take issue with it being felt on a street driven car. And butt welding 2 sections of tube or pipe on either end connecting loads doesn't create a substantial increase in rigidity. Simple physics.
) the increase has been pretty damn significant on my t-top equipped f-bods. My 94 had a hardtop and was pretty rigid from the factory even after 115,000 miles and multiple passes at the track. My wife's 99 T/A vert has cowl shake even with the OEM "subframe" connectors. My 99 Z28 didn't get SFC's installed until over 40k miles and by then it was needed. My 02 has them installed by 20k and even then showed a great improvement over stock on an all stock suspension and wheels.
My theory (just a theory as I have no actual data to base it on, just my "seat-o-meter") is that it was from htting the rear bump stops when I had those POS Eibach springs on the car.
My pride didn't prod me to make that post. The question was asked way before you discovered this thread about a first purchase. A newb looking to spend smart needs real data, not unsubstantiated opinion.
The ONLY way to test OBJECTIVELY is to drive The SAME car, the SAME way, on the SAME surface under the SAME conditions both with AND without the part being evaluated.
Just driving around on the street trying to pick up chicks is not an evaluative process.
And, for the record, I'm no God ... you have me confused with Mr. Strano.
Now I'll step aside as you proceed to bash others...
One note, Nick D, sorry for the
BS. I stand by my original post and experience. Good luck with your research and purchases.
07-04-2006, 06:13 PM
#137
OK ... uncle.
My Dad once told me,
"Never argue with an ignorant person. They just bring you down to their level and then beat you with experience."
But can you explain to me why you are a BMR poster child? Have you ever treid anything else with which to compare it to?
My Dad once told me,
"Never argue with an ignorant person. They just bring you down to their level and then beat you with experience."
But can you explain to me why you are a BMR poster child? Have you ever treid anything else with which to compare it to?
Last edited by mitchntx; 07-04-2006 at 08:44 PM.
